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Staff retention essential but business owners not prepared to pay for it!

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Old 23rd Aug 2007, 14:54
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Question Staff retention essential but business owners not prepared to pay for it!

Interesting article.


Businesses unlikely to pay for quality

Friday Aug 24 00:02 AEST

It's a classic case of having your cake and eating it.

Businesses say having the best workers gives them the edge over their competitors, but they aren't necessarily prepared to pay for it, a survey released has found.

Research by business consultant Grant Thornton International found that only two per cent of the 250 companies surveyed across Australia put any value in having a remuneration strategy in place to attract talented workers.

Just 30 per cent of business owners have pay and reward schemes in place to retain staff, while only 19 per cent believe remuneration strategies maintain a positive attitude among staff.

However, when asked what is the most significant factor that has made their business better than their competitors, having the best people on staff ranked the highest at 18 per cent.

This was followed by offering a world class service at 14 per cent and the ability to adapt and respond to market needs at 13 per cent.

"Whilst staff retention is seen by business owners as essential, it is surprising to see that so few businesses use remuneration strategies for this purpose, despite the obvious impact on the bottom-line," Tony Markwell, National Head of Private Business Services, Grant Thornton, said.

"What is even more astounding is that only two per cent of business owners recognise that a competitive remuneration package is a key driver in attracting high calibre staff."

He said in the face of the current skills shortage caused by an extremely tight labour market, business owners should be doing more to attract and keep the best people.

"Smart remuneration strategies must be a key part of this."

Other factors that are seen putting a company ahead of the rest are the firm's product at nine per cent, its brand name at seven per cent and customer loyalty at four per cent.
"Whilst staff retention is seen by business owners as essential, it is surprising to see that so few businesses use remuneration strategies for this purpose, despite the obvious impact on the bottom-line,"

Despite the obvious impact on the bottom-line. Now why is that? The mind boggles.

I actually get some sadistic pleasure now from watching these idiots (read airline managers/owners) around the country destroy their own companies. I haven’t seen so much stupidity on such a grand scale, ever!
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Old 23rd Aug 2007, 20:44
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Smile

You must work at Qantaslink, Erin

Last one out turn off the lights thanks.
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Old 23rd Aug 2007, 23:45
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well it wont be me turning out the lights, i'm out of here.

(i'll give you a hint. it's not in the QF group and their planes are much redder)
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 00:56
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I'll be honest.

I will tear up my application tomorrow for an additional $30K.

Why?

Because despite all the cr@p, I love my job. I really don't want to go through all the bullsh!t associated with interviews, sim rides, check to lines etc...

But I will, because I want a secure finanancial future for my family. I want to be recognised for all the years of purgatory and struggle that would ring true to most people on this forum. I want to fly with people that are remunerated more than $10K below the average wage!

It was mentioned on another thread that Australia post is starting their posties on $57K! Do you know what is required? Year 9 and a drivers licence!

Wake up airline employers. The old addage of you pay peanuts you get monkies doesn't even apply. The monkies are riding little red motor bikes and delivering the mail!
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 01:24
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I don't want to get into the habit of just agreeing with you Krusty.

But you are right on.

I would happily stay in my current job for more money, and maybe a few more minor benifits.
richo
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 01:38
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Its really not too complicated, just keep pace with the CPI otherwise we are going backwards.
Record profits every year and then they come up with cr a p about raising fares etc, total nonsense, stop being so bloody greedy that it will result in your demise. Think about it, what would the shareholders prefer, a minor reduction in profits or parking new aircraft against the fence. Please tell me you guys can work that one out.
As an exercise, assume a 3% CPI average over the last 10 years...
F/O on 45k 10 years ago should now be on 58.5k.
Capt on 80k 10 years ago should now be on 104k
ABS figures below...
2 ALL GROUPS, PERCENTAGE CPI CHANGES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Period Sydney Melbourne Brisbane Adelaide Perth Hobart Darwin Canberra
Percentage Change (from previous financial year)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2002-03 2.8 3.3 3.2 4.0 2.8 3.3 2.3 3.3 3.1
2003-04 2.1 2.2 2.9 3.0 2.0 2.5 1.4 2.6 2.4
2004-05 2.5 2.0 2.6 2.3 3.2 3.2 2.2 2.3 2.4
2005-06 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.2 4.2 3.2 3.3 3.5 3.2
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 02:20
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To quote a wise man

If you think an airline can run without any of the ingredients then you are a fool.
JetA not OK, this is the crux of it. No pilots, no flying planes, no cost benefit at all.
I don’t need to justify why Rex may have to ‘double salaries’ (your words not mine), that is management’s job. This whole problem was partially of their own making and was somewhat avoidable. If they do nothing, Rex will die. What is the cost of not retaining pilots?

The argument has become futile now because Rex has to make it work and pay what ever they need to pay. If they can’t afford it then they can pay for some professional advice on how to achieve it. Why should pilots subsidise companies’ expenses, incompetence and greed just to keep them operating and turn away better offers. We go to work to get paid. Just because we took a leap of faith and sacrificed for a job we enjoy doing doesn’t mean we’ll do it for free. We still need to pay the bills like everyone else.

On that note………….a ‘job we enjoy doing’ might be at a Rex sized operation, living at home, seeing your family most nights and actually flying the aeroplanes. But if flying a ‘big shiny new jet’ pays the mortgage and compensates for living elsewhere and in motels then that’s what we’ll do. Simple as that.
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 03:13
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JetA_Ok, to be honest it's all three(money,jet and green grass) for me and more.

Other reasons include slow pace of QL, the frustration of watching QF stuff things up, relatively limited opportunites in QL to name only a few.

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Old 24th Aug 2007, 03:23
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Organisational culture is a big factor as well.
People don't like working at places that focus soley on how to cut costs. The smallest penny pinching is noted by employees.
How people are treated an spoken to..thats another big one. If you get you employees onside by treating them well the sky is the limit when it comes to going the extra yard.
But yes, at the end of the day try and convince someone with a new family and a mortgage to stay when double the money is on offer over the road is foolhardy and fanciful in the extreeme.
Pats on the back don't pay off mortgages. But they will delay the onset of a departure.
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 03:24
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Angel

Captahab,
Your calcs are a bit out:

The sum is 45000 x (1.03)^10

40,000 x 1.3439 = $60476.24 after 10 years.

Similarly 80K gives $107513 .31

The marvels of COMPOUND interest.
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 06:39
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hoss, you forgot to mention the absolutely appalling way QL treat their staff.
And it's not just isolated incidents, it happens all the time.

The last EBA was the last straw for me after those thieving pricks stole our back pay. Great plan guys, stall negotiations for a couple of years so we're all owed heaps of back pay when it finally does go through. Then they serve up a **** document they know has no chance of getting voted up, and threaten us that if we don't vote it up we won't get any back pay.

And they did exectly the same with the flight attendants recently. At least the flighties had the balls to tell 'em to jam it for the second time.

Well MD you might have bumped your bonus up a bit last time by keeping our back pay, but it's about to come back and bite you on the arse big time. People (including me) will vote with their feet and you'll be parking planes before you know it. Maybe then Dixon will be asking for some of that bonus back.
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 07:01
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Thumbs up Goodonyahossss

Fantastic news, Hoss Congratulations to you. It was indeed a great pleasure to work with you for the past few years. Our loss is big red's gain.

Now, we'll have to request a Dubbo overnight before you go, 'coz I've got some DUBBO DOLLAR$ to get rid of Wink wink, nudge nudge

Say no more......
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 16:08
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Erin Brockovich:
I actually get some sadistic pleasure now from watching these idiots (read airline managers/owners) around the country destroy their own companies.
Sigh. Another day, another thread/post from Erin Brockovich labelling some airline management as stupid idiots. Recently it was Skippers, before that Rex, today it is operators "around the country".

Erin, you must have a bloodied and bleeding scalp from all the head scratching you must do in trying to understand all that stupidity. Have you reached the point yet where you ask the question "maybe it is me? ..."?

It is you, and I have devised a little exercise to help you come to that realisation.

According to you, if the operator is having trouble attracting and retaining pilots it is because of poor management, so the operator is therefore one of the stupid idiots.

Now, are there any turboprop operators in Australia that aren't having difficulty attracting and retaining staff? (Apart from the RFDS QLD section, but they are a special case, so don't count them).

Your answer to this question will be: "no, there are none - they are all stupid idiots."

Ok, so how can it be that they are all stupid idiots? Statistically speaking, in any reasonably sized sample, most members will be "average", with a small number of members on either side of "average". In statistics, this distribution is known as the "bell curve" and is named after the shape of the histogram.

Applied to the management of operators around Australia, this statistical reality means that most managers will be "average", with a smaller number "bad" and a similar number "good". An even smaller number will be "very bad" and a similar number "very good".

According to you, however, all of the sample is in the "bad" and "very bad", which means that there is a significant statistical anomaly in effect - like sitting down at the beach on a Saturday afternoon and looking around you to find the 30 closest people to you are all babies and toddlers.
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 18:45
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Aircraft, i have to say, you are a clown. As an ex QFLink employee, I can be all high and mighty now, but what they are trying to do and what they percieve as a done thing in Oz aviation now, they have absolutely no fin idea. Yes, they will have an endless supply of guys wanting a job, but the deal is, as was with me and the guys I went through with, will we last????! We were the first batch to go through with the $10000 endoresement cost, and guess what, out of eight of us, there's two left in the company, after two years next next month. What's that saying for a company like Sunstate. It used to be, and for the reasons I joined, the be all and end all of regional flying in this beautiful land of ours- and for my time there, compared to where I am now, can testify, that it is the best regional airline flying you will get!!
Hoss, watched your postings for a long time, and as a fellow disgruntled QFLink emplyee, UNDERDSTAND!!!!!!
JetAOK-YES!!!!! I would've stayed for more money. I am a QLD boy through and through, born and bred, (JOH for PM), and the original company, which still had pretty deep ties when i started was a big plus. But as others have stated, it got overun by a certain few folk (MD), who in my own personal experience, i an absolute clown, and i would not hesitate taking that claim further,and it was the whole why fix it if it not broke deal!!! So, given the same job as I started, yes, for sure, more money not a problem. It's the best lifestyle job in Oz, grass is always greener. I'm now flying an MD11, but to totally honest with you, i miss really flying a real machine like the Dash 8. I don't miss the dodgy overnights though, especially sleeping in the bed you know that Uncle Bill has sucked back a salad dressing or two in!
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 22:37
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In a previous life I have worked for a number of corporations outside Q. I am continually astounded by Qantas. They have taken the cake with respect poor staff treatment.
There are times when things go worng that they will move heaven and earth to get you home from overseas, that is to be applauded. That aside, the attitude to staff is appaulling. This mantra is set way on high. The untalented, uneducated yobbo who parades the title of CEO sets the tone, and it washes downwards. Aggression, intimidation and thinly veiled threats permeate from all echelons of management, across many departments.

It is an ironic aside that the management will not publicly say it, however there have been several moves in the recent past to indicate this style of "management" has reached the end.

1. "Dear Colleague" letter from him.

2. Establishment of huge Q flying school

The problem is that management collectively have spent all goodwill as it relates to staff. Whilst there are many who will fold, wanting to stop the hurt, there are many more who refuse to believe a word "management" say.
I think the IR environment has shown many of us that to stick our head up too far will impact more than just our reputation. It is in this environment the resistence to aggression displayed by management is met with passive and individual resistence.
Rarely are there displays publicly, however many individuals within the company have at times made decisions based upon thier frustrations (mind you not those affecting safety) rather than what could have been called in days gone by Esprit de Corps or dare I say it company spirit!

I recently spoke to a mate from GA days. He was Qlink and now has gone to the "bastard child" he couldn't sustain his family at Qlink. Whilst he is in his own words "bloody tired at least the money is a bit better".
He told me of similar feelings throughout the company as echoed by many above, he is one of 8 he knows personally who have left for other pastures. In more than one case to J*.

That particular trend, defecting to other parts of the "group" must worry management. That sort of thing was difficult to achieve in days gone by.
If the "group" is pinching pilots from each other we are reaching the days that modern bean counting boofheads dread; increased costs through remuneration of human assets!!!
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 22:59
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Aircraft, statistically speaking you have shown that you reside a few standard deviations on the left side of the “bell curve”.

Please mate, I can’t take any more of your extraneous analogies. It’s like having an argument with a teenager.

Yes, it is I that is stupid. Management everywhere, continue to do what you are doing. The staffing problem is only a small bump in the road and will sort itself out. A big well done to everyone. You are truly inspirational leaders.
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Old 24th Aug 2007, 23:27
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Jarse and Hoss,

be careful out there guys. The last crew that cut loose on an o'night were suspended for 5 weeks.

All but 1 charge/allegation was dropped after the Co could not proove anything. Once again, victimisation, intimidation, bullying, harrassment; just a few choice words that spring to mind. And the illustrious SFM is the perpetrator once again. That must be about 4 or 5 harrassment and bullying cases he has pending on him. Pretty good management skill set there, NOT.

Sue, spot on mate. And it will all play out again exactly the same way this time mate. You won't have to worry about that as you will be having a great time in Won Chai. They luv you long time there mate.

Let me know re the $ of the VS.

Baxter
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Old 25th Aug 2007, 02:07
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Erin,

Whilst i do not wish to be drawn into the stouche between you and aircraft, he/she does make a valid point

another thread/post from Erin Brockovich labelling some airline management as stupid idiots
You appear to be in a very unhappy place in your life, if that is the case change it / leave where ever you presently work. Honestly i am finding your posts/threads very depressing, can life really be that bad ?.

You are not the only one that is concerned about the apparent demise of some great australian aviation companies through the inability to keep staff, every industry is having the same staffing problems. Yes, many of these problems can be fixed by more money better rosters etc etc, but that is not our (line pilots) action to initiate.
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Old 26th Aug 2007, 02:01
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Sorry LRT if my posts seem depressing of late. Work is only a small part of my life. I do enjoy the flying and the company of my peers in the cockpit and on the piss. I am in a happy place but I am also baffled at how slow the industry is adapting to the staffing problem.

The good news is that we as pilots are now the hot new commodity. We will be writing our own cheques. Just stay safe and healthy and the rest will unfold.
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Old 27th Aug 2007, 14:58
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Erin Brockovich:
The good news is that we as pilots are now the hot new commodity. We will be writing our own cheques. Just stay safe and healthy and the rest will unfold.
Wrong!

As usual, you're only looking at one aspect of the economics - the demand for pilots.

The other aspects are:

1. High demand for air travel by public;
2. Lowish cost of pilots;

Change one aspect and you will change the others. You are advocating significant pay rises for pilots but for that to happen, the money to fund the pay rises has to come from somewhere.

The only place the money can come from is the travelling public, but increase the ticket price and you will lower demand for air travel, which in turn means less passengers (lower load factors).

Lower load factors means less flights and less pilots. This is a basic economic reality that applies to all products and markets. Raise fares enough and the pilot "shortage" will reverse to become a surplus.

But just how much can fares be raised before the decrease in load factors becomes significant? I would suggest that, with the effort that goes into yield management by todays airlines, they are already at the optimum balance between fares/load factors/capacity/frequencies/revenue, etc.

Bear in mind the nature of air travel. Air travel has for over 50 years been on a singleminded quest to achieve ever more cheaper and safer travel for the people of the world. The economics of commercial aviation today has nothing to do with John Howard but everything to do with that singleminded obsession.

For the first few decades the technological improvements alone were enough to keep the fares coming down, but these days the technological improvements aren't enough to satisfy the voracious beast - pilot salaries must now be sacrificed.

How will the beast feel about returning air fares to the levels of 10 or 20 years ago?
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