Virgin Blue to operate NZ Domestic
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The economics of a B738 domestic NZ will make it hard to work to deliver on a profit in the first year let alone the second.
However given that QF have taken a jet out (130 seats) of domestic and PB have added 2 (180 seats) the net increase in ASK within New Zealand is only small. The two jets will most likely equal 14% share??
Any word on terminal access? That will also be an integral part to the success. Drive in/out bays help to manage costs rather than (often) expensive pushback equipment.
However given that QF have taken a jet out (130 seats) of domestic and PB have added 2 (180 seats) the net increase in ASK within New Zealand is only small. The two jets will most likely equal 14% share??
Any word on terminal access? That will also be an integral part to the success. Drive in/out bays help to manage costs rather than (often) expensive pushback equipment.
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Surely that's the point though Pakeha Boy ?
In USA the routes on which they are successful are "some of the buisiest airports in the world"
I can see a logical argument for regional jets, but it is hard to sustain with an RJ that needs a runway longer than your accountant's ribbon.
Especially hard to justify in NZ where many of the provincial runways are Fokker Friendship sized Ministry of Development spec built 1,347m 12 PCN strips.
Some of these smaller centres would better suit a helicopter than an ERJ
I fly mainline(320) but we have close to 60 of these smaller jets as a feeder operation......talking to the bean counters,,,,their fuel and operating costs are NOT low,they are a lot of aeroplane(Mtx costs are not cheap)and we use them into ORD,JFK,ATL.....some of the buisiest airports in the world.......
I can see a logical argument for regional jets, but it is hard to sustain with an RJ that needs a runway longer than your accountant's ribbon.
Especially hard to justify in NZ where many of the provincial runways are Fokker Friendship sized Ministry of Development spec built 1,347m 12 PCN strips.
Some of these smaller centres would better suit a helicopter than an ERJ
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By the way, another thought or two...
http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/3394244/
aviation net...carries a story that Patrick Weil admitted on a TVONE News interview barely a week ago that he was in fact a bankrupt. I usually watch TV3 News, so I missed it.
Is my memory playing tricks on me or didn't he come to NZ with great fanfare that he was a Florida millionaire ?
Another point to ponder...
Weil said originally that he wanted to fly 733s and operate night freight from several cities which were desperate for airfreight capacity.
Well I have happened to load live lobsters into Air NZ's 733s in my chequered past. Tell me anyone, now that these kind and generous trusting townsfolk from smalltown NZ have pledged their support to Mr Weil, can he answer them how you get a ton of live crayfish into the boot of an ERJ and stagger off the runway with 50 passengers ?
http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/3394244/
aviation net...carries a story that Patrick Weil admitted on a TVONE News interview barely a week ago that he was in fact a bankrupt. I usually watch TV3 News, so I missed it.
Is my memory playing tricks on me or didn't he come to NZ with great fanfare that he was a Florida millionaire ?
Another point to ponder...
Weil said originally that he wanted to fly 733s and operate night freight from several cities which were desperate for airfreight capacity.
Well I have happened to load live lobsters into Air NZ's 733s in my chequered past. Tell me anyone, now that these kind and generous trusting townsfolk from smalltown NZ have pledged their support to Mr Weil, can he answer them how you get a ton of live crayfish into the boot of an ERJ and stagger off the runway with 50 passengers ?
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kiwiguy...you are right,no argument here...your last point regarding flying helicopters into some of these places would be cheaper.........my use of Continental Airlines as an example ......(and nobody was using Aircraft specific,I could have used Mesa and others, nobody gives a rats arse whether its a 154/170...Measa,a 700,s or 900 ,s..... ).....these aircraft are not cheap to opreate.
Continental produced a document relating to the costs of these aircraft in relation to their main operations as a feeder,and also compared them with solo ops(RJS alone)other operators and found ,you reach a point where they become a major cost,and you in fact subsidise their existance.The worst case involved smaller airports and a small fleet by one operator.
The "junkie" fails to acknowledge this...his point about their operation(s) is flawed.....they are not cheap(any of their types)to operate and the margins are thin....I, like you kiwiguy feel an RJ ops in NZ would be cost negative,their are better choicies for this operation..........
junkies quote....."experience shows how much you know to".......yeah mate,I only flew them for 2yrs,...not long I know....but long enough to know about the econmics of flying such an aircraft......PM and let me know what one of the types you flew...and your thoughts on their operation......would love to hear about your "experiences"
Continental produced a document relating to the costs of these aircraft in relation to their main operations as a feeder,and also compared them with solo ops(RJS alone)other operators and found ,you reach a point where they become a major cost,and you in fact subsidise their existance.The worst case involved smaller airports and a small fleet by one operator.
The "junkie" fails to acknowledge this...his point about their operation(s) is flawed.....they are not cheap(any of their types)to operate and the margins are thin....I, like you kiwiguy feel an RJ ops in NZ would be cost negative,their are better choicies for this operation..........
junkies quote....."experience shows how much you know to".......yeah mate,I only flew them for 2yrs,...not long I know....but long enough to know about the econmics of flying such an aircraft......PM and let me know what one of the types you flew...and your thoughts on their operation......would love to hear about your "experiences"
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The 737-700 might make sense on AKL-ZQN; ZQN-ROT; AKL-DUD, but 738s ?
DJ got a heap of 738/737s on long term leases so this is just an effort to find them something to do until their leases expire.
It will be carnage on their major routes and the smart money will be on regionals with long legs bypassing the main trunk routes and stealing patronage.
DJ got a heap of 738/737s on long term leases so this is just an effort to find them something to do until their leases expire.
It will be carnage on their major routes and the smart money will be on regionals with long legs bypassing the main trunk routes and stealing patronage.
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http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...t=patrick+weil
There's another thread dealing with Kiwijet. Some eyebrows raised with disclosure that Patrick Weil admitted on NZ TV that he was an undischarged bankrupt.
My personal thought is the guy has experience in ground handling but not a clue about marketing strategy.
For example with the B737-300 proposal he suggested offering fares of $150 anywhere, but major incumbent airlines already offered half this ticket price on comparable routes.
He also assumed (wrongly) that Jetconnect was for sale and that he could buy it. He utterly failed to read the market and other players so if he ever struggles to the air I offer my commiserations in advance to his backers.
Now why would you fly at full price on an ERJ-145 over a route where a 737 service offers budget fares ?
He is not able to compete on many regional routes because the ERJ is a runway gobbling monster which needs a take off run to the distant horizon to get airborne.
Post script
Weil was previously talking ERJ-145s. Is he now talking Canadair RJ-100 or something ??????
I get whiplash trying to follow the twists and turns.
There's another thread dealing with Kiwijet. Some eyebrows raised with disclosure that Patrick Weil admitted on NZ TV that he was an undischarged bankrupt.
My personal thought is the guy has experience in ground handling but not a clue about marketing strategy.
For example with the B737-300 proposal he suggested offering fares of $150 anywhere, but major incumbent airlines already offered half this ticket price on comparable routes.
He also assumed (wrongly) that Jetconnect was for sale and that he could buy it. He utterly failed to read the market and other players so if he ever struggles to the air I offer my commiserations in advance to his backers.
Now why would you fly at full price on an ERJ-145 over a route where a 737 service offers budget fares ?
He is not able to compete on many regional routes because the ERJ is a runway gobbling monster which needs a take off run to the distant horizon to get airborne.
Post script
Weil was previously talking ERJ-145s. Is he now talking Canadair RJ-100 or something ??????
I get whiplash trying to follow the twists and turns.
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Can't tell you why exactly, but I have strong grounds for suspecting Invercargill's mayor and council are involved, or may have underwritten some funding.
They sunk $4m into a runway extension and have not gained any airline services for it.
I recently alerted somebody involved with ICC that Weil's ERJ-145s had no freight capacity and hey presto Weil drops the ERJ-145 for RJ100s.
Well clearly there is a hotline between the two camps. If I were an Invercargill citizen I would be wary about the next $4m which shadbolt spends on Mr Weil.
Incidentally local fishing interests need to fly out 5 tonnes of airfreight daily from IVC on average and much goes by road to DUD or CHC at present. (From a report to Southland District Council dated 2 June 2000)
They sunk $4m into a runway extension and have not gained any airline services for it.
I recently alerted somebody involved with ICC that Weil's ERJ-145s had no freight capacity and hey presto Weil drops the ERJ-145 for RJ100s.
Well clearly there is a hotline between the two camps. If I were an Invercargill citizen I would be wary about the next $4m which shadbolt spends on Mr Weil.
Incidentally local fishing interests need to fly out 5 tonnes of airfreight daily from IVC on average and much goes by road to DUD or CHC at present. (From a report to Southland District Council dated 2 June 2000)
Last edited by Kiwiguy; 30th Oct 2007 at 05:28.
