Skilled migration strengthens Australian aviation
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Skilled migration strengthens Australian aviation
This will really help the industry…..!!! Watch wages and conditions drop even more now. 
MEDIA RELEASE
The Hon Mark Vaile MP
Deputy Prime Minister
Minister for Transport and Regional Services
Leader of the Nationals
DOTARS07/128MV - 9 August 2007
Skilled migration strengthens Australian aviation
The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Transport and Regional Services, Mark Vaile, today welcomed the announcement by the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations and the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship that the occupations of avionic and mechanical Aircraft Maintenance Engineer have been added to the Migration Occupations in Demand List (MODL).
"Research by the Civil Aviation and Safety Authority and the Australian Bureau of Statistics tells us that Australia is experiencing shortages in the skilled aircraft maintenance engineers needed to service Australia’s growing aviation fleet," Mr Vaile said.
The changes to the Migration on Demand list will help ensure that General Skilled Migration (GSM) visa applicants who have recognised skills in as aircraft maintenance will be awarded additional points for a points-tested GSM visa, making it easier for them to come to Australia as skilled migrants.
"I recently wrote to my ministerial colleagues and the CEO of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) to ensure that relevant Government agencies do all that they can to ensure that the continued growth of the Australian aviation industry is not jeopardised by shortages of key personnel.
"This announcement is a significant step in the right direction and means that aircraft engineers will be better targeted through Australia's migration programme," Mr Vaile said.
"I have asked relevant Government agencies to report back to me by the end of August on further options to strengthen Australia’s supply of pilots and aircraft engineers."
The inspection and maintenance of aircraft to ensure airworthiness goes to the heart of safe air travel. All work on Australian aircraft will continue to be maintained to a high level of safety where only aircraft maintenance engineers licensed by CASA are able to certify aircraft as safe to fly.
"Those aircraft maintenance engineers entering Australia through the Skilled Migration Programme will provide welcome assistance in maintaining Australia’s excellent air safety record," Mr Vaile said.
MEDIA RELEASE
The Hon Mark Vaile MP
Deputy Prime Minister
Minister for Transport and Regional Services
Leader of the Nationals
DOTARS07/128MV - 9 August 2007
Skilled migration strengthens Australian aviation
The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Transport and Regional Services, Mark Vaile, today welcomed the announcement by the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations and the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship that the occupations of avionic and mechanical Aircraft Maintenance Engineer have been added to the Migration Occupations in Demand List (MODL).
"Research by the Civil Aviation and Safety Authority and the Australian Bureau of Statistics tells us that Australia is experiencing shortages in the skilled aircraft maintenance engineers needed to service Australia’s growing aviation fleet," Mr Vaile said.
The changes to the Migration on Demand list will help ensure that General Skilled Migration (GSM) visa applicants who have recognised skills in as aircraft maintenance will be awarded additional points for a points-tested GSM visa, making it easier for them to come to Australia as skilled migrants.
"I recently wrote to my ministerial colleagues and the CEO of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) to ensure that relevant Government agencies do all that they can to ensure that the continued growth of the Australian aviation industry is not jeopardised by shortages of key personnel.
"This announcement is a significant step in the right direction and means that aircraft engineers will be better targeted through Australia's migration programme," Mr Vaile said.
"I have asked relevant Government agencies to report back to me by the end of August on further options to strengthen Australia’s supply of pilots and aircraft engineers."
The inspection and maintenance of aircraft to ensure airworthiness goes to the heart of safe air travel. All work on Australian aircraft will continue to be maintained to a high level of safety where only aircraft maintenance engineers licensed by CASA are able to certify aircraft as safe to fly.
"Those aircraft maintenance engineers entering Australia through the Skilled Migration Programme will provide welcome assistance in maintaining Australia’s excellent air safety record," Mr Vaile said.
Last edited by phyrexian; 10th Aug 2007 at 06:10.
And are you suggesting there is not a shortage of LAMEs in Australia??
Or, are you suggesting Australians engineers are so good at repairing aircraft manufactured in the USA and France, that we should exclude all non Australian engineers? I'm perpetually bewildered by the fact that the engineers that built the aircraft, are suddenly incompetent when the aircraft gets a VH registration!
Or, like the Japanese rice farmers, are you seeking protection of your perceived terms and conditions?
Which ever, knowing the ethos in CASA, highly skilled overseas engineers will get so frustrated trying to gain skills recognition and Australian LAME licensing, most will give Australia a big miss.
And if CASA doesn't frustrate them, the present waiting time for a 457 Visa approval from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship is between six and twelve months!
Or, are you suggesting Australians engineers are so good at repairing aircraft manufactured in the USA and France, that we should exclude all non Australian engineers? I'm perpetually bewildered by the fact that the engineers that built the aircraft, are suddenly incompetent when the aircraft gets a VH registration!
Or, like the Japanese rice farmers, are you seeking protection of your perceived terms and conditions?
Which ever, knowing the ethos in CASA, highly skilled overseas engineers will get so frustrated trying to gain skills recognition and Australian LAME licensing, most will give Australia a big miss.
And if CASA doesn't frustrate them, the present waiting time for a 457 Visa approval from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship is between six and twelve months!
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No doubt it will be 'heavy metal' LAMEs brought in. Let's stem another career path for Australian workers shall we??
the demand really is in LAMEs for struggling GA and small airline operators in regional areas.
I imagine Pilots would feel the same if 737 and A320 Pilots were suddenly added to the "Migration Occupations in Demand List (MODL)." Perhaps they already are?
About as much sense as letting Doctors immigrate and letting them work on the Gold Coast.
K
the demand really is in LAMEs for struggling GA and small airline operators in regional areas.
I imagine Pilots would feel the same if 737 and A320 Pilots were suddenly added to the "Migration Occupations in Demand List (MODL)." Perhaps they already are?
About as much sense as letting Doctors immigrate and letting them work on the Gold Coast.
K
Last edited by Kanga767; 10th Aug 2007 at 07:49.
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on further options to strengthen Australia’s supply of pilots and aircraft engineers.
Get the recruiting people to actually look properly at the applications that are already in.
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LAME's
There IS a shortage of LAME's in the bush. It is almost impossible to keep charter aircraft working in the bush. They spend weeks each year, just waiting for maintenance.
It is very difficult in central Australia to know if your transponder is working properly, or to get it serviced. There is no radar, so you only have the test light, or reports from jets, both of which have proved less than reliable. This will be a problem with ADSB.
It is very difficult in central Australia to know if your transponder is working properly, or to get it serviced. There is no radar, so you only have the test light, or reports from jets, both of which have proved less than reliable. This will be a problem with ADSB.
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It isn't just engineers etc
Air Services Australia are also in the process of recruiting overseas controllers to fill gaps that some managers do not believe exist!
The ATCs on the floor of course know that there is a serious shortage.
The question is why were none of the qualified Aussies currently overseas and at home who applied given the nod? hmm?
The ATCs on the floor of course know that there is a serious shortage.
The question is why were none of the qualified Aussies currently overseas and at home who applied given the nod? hmm?
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Even if the Australian government puts Pilots on the 1st tier immigration list, it's already on the 2nd tier sponsored occupations list, dosen't imply that Australia will be flooded with pilots.
It is T&C's that dictate the supply of pilots. There's a already a large number of Aussi/Kiwi pilots flying overseas who still view the T&C's on offer as poor and even with the right of abode we are not seeing them rushing back home. Some are obviously looking but they are being very particular in their choice of preferred company.
So why should pilots of other nationalities be any different. Up sticks with their families to get paid less, pay for the rating, (pay for everything else as well), AWA's, max hours, rostered days off down-route..shortened life span!!..
Shags
It is T&C's that dictate the supply of pilots. There's a already a large number of Aussi/Kiwi pilots flying overseas who still view the T&C's on offer as poor and even with the right of abode we are not seeing them rushing back home. Some are obviously looking but they are being very particular in their choice of preferred company.
So why should pilots of other nationalities be any different. Up sticks with their families to get paid less, pay for the rating, (pay for everything else as well), AWA's, max hours, rostered days off down-route..shortened life span!!..
Shags
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Which ever, knowing the ethos in CASA, highly skilled overseas engineers will get so frustrated trying to gain skills recognition and Australian LAME licensing, most will give Australia a big miss.
All you have to do is take a catergory multi question exam (a few questions per group). The questions are really basic and not that difficult to anyone who has had the correct training and experience.
CASA doesnt make it difficult at all, they will take anyones money if they want to try and try and try again
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The Reason the Aussies and Kiwis arent rushing home is because they have to begin at the bottom as an s/o or F/O. Its time to open up more contract work in Australia, seniority is holding back experience which is more important long term. Its not so much the cash , many guys would return if they could maintain their command.
Its time to look at qualifications and experience.
Its time to look at qualifications and experience.
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You are correct.Ctc exam can only be attempted once.If the applicant fails he/she will have to sit casa's basic examinations to get their foreign license
recognized.I believe casa is also reviewing this at the moment.
recognized.I believe casa is also reviewing this at the moment.
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Works both ways Vaile, highly experienced and skilled crews taking their skills overseas as their salary has been slowly overtaken by just about every other profession is hardly what the travelling public would want would they.....
clever politicians.
clever politicians.
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Expatriate Pilots and engineers are not keen to come home to be underpaid, overworked and overtaxed. Those wishing to immigrate to Oz will do so for the passport alone, not the terms and conditions. After a few years of sh-t working conditions and terms out in the bush they will be able to go offshore again secure in the knowledge that they will be able to retire in a safe environment and their kids will have a real country to call home. So it may fill a few vacancies and manage to hold terms and conditions where they are for a while but in the end if you want to keep quality people working for you, you have to look after them well. That meens terms & conditions and you might even treat them with respect for a change.
I can assure you that there is no shortage of engineers or pilots out there who will jump at the chance to become Australians, but in the end you will get what you pay for!
I can assure you that there is no shortage of engineers or pilots out there who will jump at the chance to become Australians, but in the end you will get what you pay for!
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There is no skill shortage. Over the last few years QF has made redundant over a thousand experienced LAMES and AMES. Most got out of aviation industry all together because of declining terms and conditions.
If they increased those terms and conditions then you would probably find that many of them would gladly return.
There is a shortage of experienced LAMES across the world and the money that is on offer here is not going to attract anyone (especially when so many people within the industry are bad mouthing their own companies).
I agree with Shockwave you will get people from overseas who will come for the lifestyle but with the money on offer they will only attract the dregs.
If they increased those terms and conditions then you would probably find that many of them would gladly return.
There is a shortage of experienced LAMES across the world and the money that is on offer here is not going to attract anyone (especially when so many people within the industry are bad mouthing their own companies).
I agree with Shockwave you will get people from overseas who will come for the lifestyle but with the money on offer they will only attract the dregs.
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I don't see a huge shortage of LAME's at the airline end of the market. Yes we have an ageing skill base, but no current shortage. TIME TO TRAIN UP OTHERS FROM THE KNOWLEDGE OF THOSE WITHIN.
Many that were spilt out of the Ansett collapse didn't happen to have the right licences for Virgin or QANTAS, a lot of these guys are still on the outer looking in.
As mentioned by others, QANTAS re-sizing has also meant there are LAME's out there that would prefer to be employed in the industry.
Where there is a shortage, without doubt, is at the smaller end where it is extremely difficult for the small business to keep training new LAME's. This is where I see the industry needs a huge "leg-up". More training subsidies and incentives for the small maintenance organsiation.
MP.
Many that were spilt out of the Ansett collapse didn't happen to have the right licences for Virgin or QANTAS, a lot of these guys are still on the outer looking in.
As mentioned by others, QANTAS re-sizing has also meant there are LAME's out there that would prefer to be employed in the industry.
Where there is a shortage, without doubt, is at the smaller end where it is extremely difficult for the small business to keep training new LAME's. This is where I see the industry needs a huge "leg-up". More training subsidies and incentives for the small maintenance organsiation.
MP.
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I agree with Numbskull,that there is certainly no shortage of AME/LAME's out there,especially heavyjet Group 20 LAMEs.
It basically boils down to the facts that are:
The industry as a whole doesn't train enough apprentices,and then when those apprentices have been trained and turn into trades people,doesn't always give them something to look forward to,e.g.like an interesting career.
QF for example reward the majority of their apprentices by shipping them off to their Bankstown workshops to grind doorhandles and fix toilet components.What a fantastic incentive to remain in the industry after 4 years of study and doing your basics.Or even better still,move the brighter ones interstate with the promise of training,away from family & friends and then renege on that promise,so they are stuck on low wages away from home,and put them in the extremely difficult position in which to accumulate the right amount of experience for their first licence.All this and with no prospect of further training for a clear career path.
Do Virgin train their own apprentices,or are they still cherry picking from the rest of the industry?What about John Holland?Are they going to be recruiting apprentices?I bet not?What about Forstaff in Avalon?Are they recruiting apprentices and giving them a career path?This is where the government via the office of Mark Vaile has dropped the ball by not encouraging the bigger maintenance operators of the country to recruit enough young people into the industry.
Plus,I realise GA operates on a shoe string budget,but if they paid the right money for the amount of study GA LAMEs need,then they would probably retain the correct amount of people and encourage young people to want to take an apprenticeship.What is wrong with paying for a LAMEs service?
What an incentive to a young person if you said to them that in a few years of study and work experience,you will earn $100000+ for being an engineer.
If the job currently is so easy and so well paid,why isn't there an oversupply of engineers on the market?Its because those engineers that work 24 hour shift work,outdoors in the weather and generally have to pay for their own training are a special type of person.And these people need to be financially rewarded for the investment they have taken in their career through both personal sacrifce and what money they have spent on their tooling and training.Plus the government doesnt give HECS or any subsidies to ease the burden.Most LAMEs who have been in the industry longer than 10 or even 20 years have probably spent in excess of $20,000 to improve their qualifications.And this applies more so to most pilots as well who have trained themselves.
What this country doesnt realise is that if we had a CASA system that allowed Australian engineers to easily transport their licences and qualifications overseas now,eg EASA,FAA,then maybe these guys would be sending home money earned overseas,as opposed to recruiting thousands of foreign engineers to dilute the current wages of those already in the industry in Australia,and who will more than likely be sending some part of their wage back overseas.
This current Federal Govt has not supported Australias engineers.They have allowed thousands of engineers to disappear from the market by allowing Qantas to close down faciltities and supposedly making engineers redundant,not making it a condition of Virgin starting prior to the collapse of Ansett to train their own engineers from the start,and not making sure that the people who maintain Australia's aircraft are paid good money for the service their labour provides.
I blame Mark Vaile all the previous DOTARS ministers in order Hon Warren Truss MP,Hon John Anderson MP,Hon John Cobb MP,Senator The Hon Ian Campbell,Hon Wilson Tuckey MP,Senator the Hon Ron Boswell,Senator the Hon Ian Macdonald,Hon Mark Vaile MP,Hon Alex Somlyay MP,Hon Michael Ronaldson MP,Hon John Sharp MP & Senator the Hon Grant Tambling for allowing this rot to happen to what is an essential industry for the economy.SHAME!!
It basically boils down to the facts that are:
The industry as a whole doesn't train enough apprentices,and then when those apprentices have been trained and turn into trades people,doesn't always give them something to look forward to,e.g.like an interesting career.
QF for example reward the majority of their apprentices by shipping them off to their Bankstown workshops to grind doorhandles and fix toilet components.What a fantastic incentive to remain in the industry after 4 years of study and doing your basics.Or even better still,move the brighter ones interstate with the promise of training,away from family & friends and then renege on that promise,so they are stuck on low wages away from home,and put them in the extremely difficult position in which to accumulate the right amount of experience for their first licence.All this and with no prospect of further training for a clear career path.
Do Virgin train their own apprentices,or are they still cherry picking from the rest of the industry?What about John Holland?Are they going to be recruiting apprentices?I bet not?What about Forstaff in Avalon?Are they recruiting apprentices and giving them a career path?This is where the government via the office of Mark Vaile has dropped the ball by not encouraging the bigger maintenance operators of the country to recruit enough young people into the industry.
Plus,I realise GA operates on a shoe string budget,but if they paid the right money for the amount of study GA LAMEs need,then they would probably retain the correct amount of people and encourage young people to want to take an apprenticeship.What is wrong with paying for a LAMEs service?
What an incentive to a young person if you said to them that in a few years of study and work experience,you will earn $100000+ for being an engineer.
If the job currently is so easy and so well paid,why isn't there an oversupply of engineers on the market?Its because those engineers that work 24 hour shift work,outdoors in the weather and generally have to pay for their own training are a special type of person.And these people need to be financially rewarded for the investment they have taken in their career through both personal sacrifce and what money they have spent on their tooling and training.Plus the government doesnt give HECS or any subsidies to ease the burden.Most LAMEs who have been in the industry longer than 10 or even 20 years have probably spent in excess of $20,000 to improve their qualifications.And this applies more so to most pilots as well who have trained themselves.
What this country doesnt realise is that if we had a CASA system that allowed Australian engineers to easily transport their licences and qualifications overseas now,eg EASA,FAA,then maybe these guys would be sending home money earned overseas,as opposed to recruiting thousands of foreign engineers to dilute the current wages of those already in the industry in Australia,and who will more than likely be sending some part of their wage back overseas.
This current Federal Govt has not supported Australias engineers.They have allowed thousands of engineers to disappear from the market by allowing Qantas to close down faciltities and supposedly making engineers redundant,not making it a condition of Virgin starting prior to the collapse of Ansett to train their own engineers from the start,and not making sure that the people who maintain Australia's aircraft are paid good money for the service their labour provides.
I blame Mark Vaile all the previous DOTARS ministers in order Hon Warren Truss MP,Hon John Anderson MP,Hon John Cobb MP,Senator The Hon Ian Campbell,Hon Wilson Tuckey MP,Senator the Hon Ron Boswell,Senator the Hon Ian Macdonald,Hon Mark Vaile MP,Hon Alex Somlyay MP,Hon Michael Ronaldson MP,Hon John Sharp MP & Senator the Hon Grant Tambling for allowing this rot to happen to what is an essential industry for the economy.SHAME!!
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What is the Big picture!
Good points Bugs-a-lugs,
Another point is if you asked someone 20-30 years ago, would you like your children to be an Engineer, most Engineers would have said YES.
I have recently asked this question to many LAMES that I work with, their response was "NO WAY". My point is most LAME's have had to sacifice something to get to where they are today. The biggest sacifice is family time and social life.
Lack of training is always been a sore point for pilots and engineers. Secondly most airlines don't want to pay for it because is all about the $$$$.
Hence, poaching! And no Appprentices.
Many Years have gone by and now and CASA has enhanced future poaching needs by introducing the new EASA system.
By introducing a A, B1 & B2 licencing system. This will open the doorway for Europe and help major airline overcome there training needs.
What is interesting over the past 20 years is people's attitudes to company loyality and company training has changed.
Airlines have created the culture that is today!
Another point is if you asked someone 20-30 years ago, would you like your children to be an Engineer, most Engineers would have said YES.
I have recently asked this question to many LAMES that I work with, their response was "NO WAY". My point is most LAME's have had to sacifice something to get to where they are today. The biggest sacifice is family time and social life.
Lack of training is always been a sore point for pilots and engineers. Secondly most airlines don't want to pay for it because is all about the $$$$.
Hence, poaching! And no Appprentices.
Many Years have gone by and now and CASA has enhanced future poaching needs by introducing the new EASA system.
By introducing a A, B1 & B2 licencing system. This will open the doorway for Europe and help major airline overcome there training needs.
What is interesting over the past 20 years is people's attitudes to company loyality and company training has changed.
Airlines have created the culture that is today!
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Please Sir May I have Some More
In the past twelve months we have recruited 4 flight crew members, six engineers and three senior managers from overseas.
These people have come to us from the UK, NZ, France, Italy, US and Asia.
I must say that they are the most grateful dedicated employees we have. They have the requisite skills and thanks to 100.66 our engineers hair colour is becoming darker without the aid of a tin of Kiwi boot polish.
They each dropped a significant sum for choosing to come and work in Australia, but they did so with their eyes open.
These people recognise that Australia is the greatest place on earth to live and work, and while we may not have the higher salaries of our overseas cousins, we do have something that all of them struggle to find before. A place they want to be. A place where the sun shines, the freindship genuine and day's work long but honest.
I applaud the companies who are following suit. We are proud to employ "foreigners".
You know, this is not the first time Australia has bought in offshore skills and labour. I do remember as a lad the history lessons; Snowy River; 10 pound poms, and then (thanks Pauline) the Asian Invasion. I didn't see too many of them go home. 99.9% stayed, and they have shaped what the real Australia is today.
For us, we hope to bring in maybe another 20 or 30 people over the next year; flight crew, engineering and management. We love it.
We do it by 457 and MODL. The sponsorship is easy, especially when you balance that by the commitment and dedication these people show when you give them the opporunity of a lifetime.
Frankly anyone who comes out here to work, is genuine, and under no illusion of grandure. They just love the place.
I do see Aussies going overseas chasing the greener grass. I did. Now I too have come back, and the fact is, money, hours and red jets are not everything.
Are these employees cheaper than our Aussies? No, same price. They are not driving down the wages. The Aussies at our LCC's or NWC's are doing that job ever so well for you all.
PS, yes this is our first post. There will be plenty more. Enjoy.
These people have come to us from the UK, NZ, France, Italy, US and Asia.
I must say that they are the most grateful dedicated employees we have. They have the requisite skills and thanks to 100.66 our engineers hair colour is becoming darker without the aid of a tin of Kiwi boot polish.
They each dropped a significant sum for choosing to come and work in Australia, but they did so with their eyes open.
These people recognise that Australia is the greatest place on earth to live and work, and while we may not have the higher salaries of our overseas cousins, we do have something that all of them struggle to find before. A place they want to be. A place where the sun shines, the freindship genuine and day's work long but honest.
I applaud the companies who are following suit. We are proud to employ "foreigners".
You know, this is not the first time Australia has bought in offshore skills and labour. I do remember as a lad the history lessons; Snowy River; 10 pound poms, and then (thanks Pauline) the Asian Invasion. I didn't see too many of them go home. 99.9% stayed, and they have shaped what the real Australia is today.
For us, we hope to bring in maybe another 20 or 30 people over the next year; flight crew, engineering and management. We love it.
We do it by 457 and MODL. The sponsorship is easy, especially when you balance that by the commitment and dedication these people show when you give them the opporunity of a lifetime.
Frankly anyone who comes out here to work, is genuine, and under no illusion of grandure. They just love the place.
I do see Aussies going overseas chasing the greener grass. I did. Now I too have come back, and the fact is, money, hours and red jets are not everything.
Are these employees cheaper than our Aussies? No, same price. They are not driving down the wages. The Aussies at our LCC's or NWC's are doing that job ever so well for you all.
PS, yes this is our first post. There will be plenty more. Enjoy.