More Overseas Maintenance ! ! !
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More Overseas Maintenance ! ! !
Is it tru that the mighty roo is to go offshore once more ?
Was there not a sound lesson learned last time ?
What does it cost you in real terms ?
Is there any truth to this rumour ?
Was there not a sound lesson learned last time ?
What does it cost you in real terms ?
Is there any truth to this rumour ?
Yep
VH-OJE leaves Sydney about lunchtime on Mon 30 July for a "D" Check at SIAEC (where have I heard that name before). There are more supervisors going along than the number of LAME's required to do the "D" check in sydney. 
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Is it tru that the mighty roo is to go offshore once more ?
Was there not a sound lesson learned last time ?
What does it cost you in real terms ?
Is there any truth to this rumour ?
Note: "tru" has an "e" in it and there is no space before a question mark.
M.P.
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Just wondering if a group could form together get to the corporations laws or other laws as appropriate so that in the event of an accident directly (or even partially) attributable to cheap cost cutting maintenance practices locally or overseas, can have the involved managers, directors and CEO held accountable in the criminal court as opposed to the civil court.
AT the moment If an accident occurs all that would happen is the company as a hole would be facing a class action, but that really is pointless unless the people responsible for the decisions are facing potential jail time.
AT the moment If an accident occurs all that would happen is the company as a hole would be facing a class action, but that really is pointless unless the people responsible for the decisions are facing potential jail time.
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MP if you want to be pedantic re. punctuation manager's has an apostrophe before the s to denote ownership
eg. manager's car
manager's overblown salary
manager's inability to make a sound decision
eg. manager's car
manager's overblown salary
manager's inability to make a sound decision
Last edited by blackhander; 27th Jul 2007 at 08:23. Reason: clarification
Is it the fact that the work is going overseas, and therefore jobs in Australia being lost, that is the problem, or the quality of the work.
What would people think if a competitive MRO in Australia started attracting overseas work. ( I believe that there could be a chance of this in Melbourne).
If we are just becoming perocial, anti global and frustrated, then i think the argument was lost almost a generation ago. It was just that Qantas, being a relic of a government owned airline that never made a profit, was one of the last bastions to fall.
There seems to be many opportunities in this current climate for people who can think outside the box. I believe that the scope of the argument about outsourcing is so huge, so much so that it is outside the scope of any individual industry to fight it, that any rear guard action by Qantas employees will be in vain.
My suggestion is to anticipate cost cutting and take control of the agenda. In my company there are often more appropriate ways to cut costs that will satisfy both the shareholder and employee, but sometimes management misses the point. Engage management and manipulate things in the direction you want.
By the way, i am not suggesting that this is a better world, just being realistic and trying to make things work better.
What would people think if a competitive MRO in Australia started attracting overseas work. ( I believe that there could be a chance of this in Melbourne).
If we are just becoming perocial, anti global and frustrated, then i think the argument was lost almost a generation ago. It was just that Qantas, being a relic of a government owned airline that never made a profit, was one of the last bastions to fall.
There seems to be many opportunities in this current climate for people who can think outside the box. I believe that the scope of the argument about outsourcing is so huge, so much so that it is outside the scope of any individual industry to fight it, that any rear guard action by Qantas employees will be in vain.
My suggestion is to anticipate cost cutting and take control of the agenda. In my company there are often more appropriate ways to cut costs that will satisfy both the shareholder and employee, but sometimes management misses the point. Engage management and manipulate things in the direction you want.
By the way, i am not suggesting that this is a better world, just being realistic and trying to make things work better.
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good point
however what approach do you take when management is obsessed with short term shareholder returns? and of course the independant consultant recommends a very incentive based salary and bonuses.
i like SQ approach. i believe recently everyone got a four (4) month bonus, whatever rank they may have. that's called sharing the good and not so good times.
i like SQ approach. i believe recently everyone got a four (4) month bonus, whatever rank they may have. that's called sharing the good and not so good times.
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I agree while heaps of us bag the Singaporeans they come in 4-6 month bonuses and now 245k Captain salary on Tiger, haha its quite smart if you think about it! While we argue they poach, because all of us piss fart around but still dont achieve any results hmm
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6 months bonus
The four months bonus was last year. This year they got 6.07 months bonus. This excludes the 13th month of pay that most Singaporean employees get.
(How the 13th month works is, long long long long time ago, employees were paid every week. There are 52 weeks a year. Then one day in the seventies most companies in Singapore converted to a monthly pay scale. However, this meant that they got paid 12 months a year. But 12 months = 48 weeks. So that "loss" of 4 weeks was paid as a 13th month in December and the practice continues till today)
So yeah, SQ employees got paid 19.07 months this year. No, I don't work for them. Yes, I'm jeaous
. Though do bear in mind that the SQ base pay is very low. Grads start at SGD2800 a month with good honours, though I think they raised it recently to $3000. However, I wouldn't complain if it were 19 months of pay!
(How the 13th month works is, long long long long time ago, employees were paid every week. There are 52 weeks a year. Then one day in the seventies most companies in Singapore converted to a monthly pay scale. However, this meant that they got paid 12 months a year. But 12 months = 48 weeks. So that "loss" of 4 weeks was paid as a 13th month in December and the practice continues till today)
So yeah, SQ employees got paid 19.07 months this year. No, I don't work for them. Yes, I'm jeaous
. Though do bear in mind that the SQ base pay is very low. Grads start at SGD2800 a month with good honours, though I think they raised it recently to $3000. However, I wouldn't complain if it were 19 months of pay!
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Qantas was run by pilots,
pilots love safe aircraft,
pilots love engineers,
qantas enginners maintained aircraft so well boeing asked qantas how to modify aircraft.
bookeepers took over qantas wanted to make money
to many qualified engineers(lames)
lets replace them with less skilled workers
no,lets save more money lets sack our skills base
lets run engineering into the ground and outsourse everything save more money.
the founders of qantas would be p***** off what you did to this once great company
pilots love safe aircraft,
pilots love engineers,
qantas enginners maintained aircraft so well boeing asked qantas how to modify aircraft.
bookeepers took over qantas wanted to make money
to many qualified engineers(lames)
lets replace them with less skilled workers
no,lets save more money lets sack our skills base
lets run engineering into the ground and outsourse everything save more money.
the founders of qantas would be p***** off what you did to this once great company
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Nice words Domo.
Balthazar 777, it is probably more about the quality of work rather than who is doing it.
Qf heavy maint in Syd put out a high quality product, they weren't overly concerned about the cost or the time that it spent on the ground, they just punched out a good safe product that would last until the next D check.
Unfortunately bean counters have intervened and its all about time spent out of service and cost. If and when an accident occurs, the media and the public will be up in arms saying how could they let this happen, why didn't anyone speak up, why are we cutting costs on maintenance? The flying public will be equally to blame, all they want is the cheapest ticket they can buy and who can supply them that? The airline that spends the least amount of money on inflight service, pilots, engineers and maintenance!
Beancounter's thoughts are causing silly things to happen. When aircraft are going to major checks, be it in AVV BNE or SIN they will not attempt or schedule any extra work unless it was planned or budgeted for 10 weeks out. Instead it is planned to be fixed or attempted to be fixed in the minimal ground time outside of the major checks. Syd heavy used to take on anything and usually fixed it, but was over budget and over time, but QF got a good reliable aircraft.
Ahh well no more reminiscing, I will be accused of living in pity city (Bean counters wank word).
N
Balthazar 777, it is probably more about the quality of work rather than who is doing it.
Qf heavy maint in Syd put out a high quality product, they weren't overly concerned about the cost or the time that it spent on the ground, they just punched out a good safe product that would last until the next D check.
Unfortunately bean counters have intervened and its all about time spent out of service and cost. If and when an accident occurs, the media and the public will be up in arms saying how could they let this happen, why didn't anyone speak up, why are we cutting costs on maintenance? The flying public will be equally to blame, all they want is the cheapest ticket they can buy and who can supply them that? The airline that spends the least amount of money on inflight service, pilots, engineers and maintenance!
Beancounter's thoughts are causing silly things to happen. When aircraft are going to major checks, be it in AVV BNE or SIN they will not attempt or schedule any extra work unless it was planned or budgeted for 10 weeks out. Instead it is planned to be fixed or attempted to be fixed in the minimal ground time outside of the major checks. Syd heavy used to take on anything and usually fixed it, but was over budget and over time, but QF got a good reliable aircraft.
Ahh well no more reminiscing, I will be accused of living in pity city (Bean counters wank word).
N
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Nepotisim said.. "Unfortunately bean counters have intervened and its all about time spent out of service and cost. If and when an accident occurs, the media and the public will be up in arms saying how could they let this happen, why didn't anyone speak up, why are we cutting costs on maintenance?"
If the worst case happens and this is the result watch the "cover my back" routine from upper management.The blame will be put squarely on someone else..never those who made the decision.We put in place checks and layers to make sure this did not happen "
If the worst case happens and this is the result watch the "cover my back" routine from upper management.The blame will be put squarely on someone else..never those who made the decision.We put in place checks and layers to make sure this did not happen "
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The QF1 departed late again yesterday after E & I guys found more dodgy repairs to EEL Lighting on VH-OJQ during maintenance checks. You guessed it - ex SIN D check A/C. More staples along with lockwire used to repair the strips in an attempt to maintain an electrical circuit. Not only that but the protective cover strips were incorrect material. The correct protective covers specified by the manufacturer are specifically designed to prevent damage and maintain the integrity of the system during service. What the geniuses in SIN used instead (probably due to a lack of correct parts) were decorative strips of fibreglass used to fill the gaps on cabin sidewalls.
The EEL lighting was replaced to the correct standard by QF personnel yesterday but an EA had to be sought from Tech Services for the continued use of incorrect cover strips until the correct material can be fitted at a later date. Yet again another example where our guys on the floor and Tech Services have to fix up the sub standard workmanship of overseas MROs all in the name of cost cutting.
If we were found to be performing maintenance on ATLAS A/C to this standard and were found out during an FAA audit QF would have their Workstation Authority pulled before you could say Singapore Sling.
The EEL lighting was replaced to the correct standard by QF personnel yesterday but an EA had to be sought from Tech Services for the continued use of incorrect cover strips until the correct material can be fitted at a later date. Yet again another example where our guys on the floor and Tech Services have to fix up the sub standard workmanship of overseas MROs all in the name of cost cutting.
If we were found to be performing maintenance on ATLAS A/C to this standard and were found out during an FAA audit QF would have their Workstation Authority pulled before you could say Singapore Sling.
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Ok so now over to Managers Perspective to give us the company side of the story and how safety is not being compromised by cost cutting.
But MP said ""but nothing the respective regulators seemed to care much about"...
We are waiting MP ...
But MP said ""but nothing the respective regulators seemed to care much about"...
We are waiting MP ...
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Poo, fan, you know the rest.
Some spin going on, what's the goss?
This in from Crikey.com
---------------
4. Home truths about those Qantas staples
Ben Sandilands writes:
Qantas knows that the illegal stapling of electrical cabling in a 747-400 was done by one of its own employees and not in maintenance performed while the jet was being overhauled in Singapore last year.
What was a cause celebre for the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association in its campaign against offshore contracting and for alarmed Qantas pilots last week is now their worst nightmare.
It was shoddy work by an Australian worker in a Qantas hangar where management failed to apply the high standards once taken for granted by the public.
Qantas is running an intensive investigation which may identify the employee responsible for the disgrace, as well as those who then used it knowingly or unknowingly in a campaign to discredit the use of offshore companies, in this case, the Singapore International Airlines Engineering Company (SIAC) which had been the subject of an earlier adverse audit by the airline.
A Qantas spokesperson confirmed the investigation and has defended David Cox, the executive general manager engineering, who sent a confusing signal over the responsibility for the stapling incident by telling Seven’s Today Tonight he would have words with SIAC over the incident.
The spokesman said Cox’s comment were made three days before they went to air, well after the inquiry was launched and the false premises of the union campaign were exposed. Since then the union has been in retreat, claiming that it was not casting aspersions on the training or capability of foreign maintenance workers nor the quality of their work.
SIAC was furious over the report.
This in from Crikey.com
---------------
4. Home truths about those Qantas staples
Ben Sandilands writes:
Qantas knows that the illegal stapling of electrical cabling in a 747-400 was done by one of its own employees and not in maintenance performed while the jet was being overhauled in Singapore last year.
What was a cause celebre for the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association in its campaign against offshore contracting and for alarmed Qantas pilots last week is now their worst nightmare.
It was shoddy work by an Australian worker in a Qantas hangar where management failed to apply the high standards once taken for granted by the public.
Qantas is running an intensive investigation which may identify the employee responsible for the disgrace, as well as those who then used it knowingly or unknowingly in a campaign to discredit the use of offshore companies, in this case, the Singapore International Airlines Engineering Company (SIAC) which had been the subject of an earlier adverse audit by the airline.
A Qantas spokesperson confirmed the investigation and has defended David Cox, the executive general manager engineering, who sent a confusing signal over the responsibility for the stapling incident by telling Seven’s Today Tonight he would have words with SIAC over the incident.
The spokesman said Cox’s comment were made three days before they went to air, well after the inquiry was launched and the false premises of the union campaign were exposed. Since then the union has been in retreat, claiming that it was not casting aspersions on the training or capability of foreign maintenance workers nor the quality of their work.
SIAC was furious over the report.
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poo, fan pt 2
Remainder of article from Crikey (for some reason it doesn't like it as one post)
Cox’s response to that fury is detailed in this note to staff on July 20.
However the situation is bad for Qantas as well as the union, because in failing to detect improper repairs in at least one of its jets, it recognises inadequate exercise of its responsibility for the professionalism and capabilities of its in-house engineering and the record keeping supposed to catalogue the service history of this and every jet in its fleet.
But as far as its argument against sending more maintenance work abroad is concerned the engineering union has kicked an ‘own goal’ and lost the match.
If neither Qantas or the unions can be trusted to get it right, isn’t the offshore solution more attractive than ever?
Cox’s response to that fury is detailed in this note to staff on July 20.
However the situation is bad for Qantas as well as the union, because in failing to detect improper repairs in at least one of its jets, it recognises inadequate exercise of its responsibility for the professionalism and capabilities of its in-house engineering and the record keeping supposed to catalogue the service history of this and every jet in its fleet.
But as far as its argument against sending more maintenance work abroad is concerned the engineering union has kicked an ‘own goal’ and lost the match.
If neither Qantas or the unions can be trusted to get it right, isn’t the offshore solution more attractive than ever?
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crikey!
more spin perhaps romulus?
seems strange that dodgy eel repairs keep turning up on aircraft en SIN heavy maint.
anyway hope the lockwire used in the previous post was 32 though IAW the AMM
seems strange that dodgy eel repairs keep turning up on aircraft en SIN heavy maint.
anyway hope the lockwire used in the previous post was 32 though IAW the AMM