I think I am going to be sick!!
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Aircraft...
So on time departure is not important to an airline but management quality is?
So if One stars management is so good why isn't the on time departure?
You got it wrong about J* Asia (you didn't know they existed)
You told someone else that J* would never drop it's $15 dollar application fee and THEY DID.
If the Management is so capable and adept as you put it why then is Darths little baby J* Asia haemorrhaging money like there is no tomorro.
So on time departure is not important to an airline but management quality is?
So if One stars management is so good why isn't the on time departure?
You got it wrong about J* Asia (you didn't know they existed)
You told someone else that J* would never drop it's $15 dollar application fee and THEY DID.
If the Management is so capable and adept as you put it why then is Darths little baby J* Asia haemorrhaging money like there is no tomorro.
So on time departure is not important to an airline but management quality is?
You got it wrong about J* Asia (you didn't know they existed)
You told someone else that J* would never drop it's $15 dollar application fee and THEY DID.
If the Management is so capable and adept as you put it why then is Darths little baby J* Asia haemorrhaging money like there is no tomorro.
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aircraft, do you remember saying this (from another thread)? ....
as against ....
So let me get this straight :
Profits = Management Good
Losses = nothing to do with management
How can you have one and not the other?
The sins and/or failings of Dixon exist only in your imagination.
To judge whether he is doing a good job or not, you only need to look at the share price, but why not take note of the upward revised profit forecasts as well?
To judge whether he is doing a good job or not, you only need to look at the share price, but why not take note of the upward revised profit forecasts as well?
A loss, or a period of losses (or a period of profit), does not indicate anything about the quality of the management.
Profits = Management Good
Losses = nothing to do with management
How can you have one and not the other?
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Aircraft it seems as though you have a short term memory problem so let me help refresh you…
You said this…
“
“I did not comment on the importance or otherwise of on time departures” when in fact you said….
“Not that kind of "operational" but the "management operational"…
This was in response to a graph made about on time departures.SO YES you did say that ‘on time departures’ were not the issue
Your second denial....“I cannot recall ever making any statements about Jetstar Asia. What did I get wrong?”….
This was your response to me about J* asia ..
“lowerlobe,
What is Jetstar Asia? Please forgive my ignorance and fill me in. When will they start operating, what routes, what aircraft, etc.”…….
From my post...You told someone else that J* would never drop it's $15 dollar application fee and THEY DID.
Then your third denial......“Err, I never said that either”
Again your statement is incorrect because you said to Charliethewonderdog. “From the supposed conversation:
Quote:
"hmmm well it does seem to be causing a probem, would you be prepared to apply in the future if the fee was dropped "
“Rubbish. I would bet anything she did not actually say that”
Apparently they have dropped this requirement .
Aircraft you really have to remember what you have said.Your arguments are at best nonsensical and hold hold water as well as a colander does.
You said this…
“
“I did not comment on the importance or otherwise of on time departures” when in fact you said….
“Not that kind of "operational" but the "management operational"…
This was in response to a graph made about on time departures.SO YES you did say that ‘on time departures’ were not the issue
Your second denial....“I cannot recall ever making any statements about Jetstar Asia. What did I get wrong?”….
This was your response to me about J* asia ..
“lowerlobe,
What is Jetstar Asia? Please forgive my ignorance and fill me in. When will they start operating, what routes, what aircraft, etc.”…….
From my post...You told someone else that J* would never drop it's $15 dollar application fee and THEY DID.
Then your third denial......“Err, I never said that either”
Again your statement is incorrect because you said to Charliethewonderdog. “From the supposed conversation:
Quote:
"hmmm well it does seem to be causing a probem, would you be prepared to apply in the future if the fee was dropped "
“Rubbish. I would bet anything she did not actually say that”
Apparently they have dropped this requirement .
Aircraft you really have to remember what you have said.Your arguments are at best nonsensical and hold hold water as well as a colander does.
'holic,
I should have been more specific. Profits and share price increases do not necessarily indicate good management, and losses and share price decreases do not necessarily indicate poor management. I'm sure you would know this.
It is tempting to make these associations however, particularly in the case of the profits and share price increases and it appears that I have succumbed to this temptation on this occasion!
It is probably fair to say that the board too would judge Dixon's performance favourably simply whilst these two measures are positive but should one go negative, they would need to look a lot more closely in order to make that judgement.
I should have been more specific. Profits and share price increases do not necessarily indicate good management, and losses and share price decreases do not necessarily indicate poor management. I'm sure you would know this.
It is tempting to make these associations however, particularly in the case of the profits and share price increases and it appears that I have succumbed to this temptation on this occasion!
It is probably fair to say that the board too would judge Dixon's performance favourably simply whilst these two measures are positive but should one go negative, they would need to look a lot more closely in order to make that judgement.
lowerlobe,
Very funny! Have you been through all my posts looking for statements I made on Jetstar Asia? Perhaps you should take up satirical comedy as that "statement" you quoted is actually a question. So, again I ask you, what was it I said about Jetstar Asia that was wrong?
And how is this statement of mine:
a comment on the importance or otherwise of on time departures?
This is riotous! Keep it coming!
And where/when did I say that Jetstar would not be dropping the $15 fee? My only statement on this was to express disbelief as to whether the Jetstar staff member did or did not say certain words!
Congratulations on what was quite possibly the most humourous post I have ever read on PPRUNE!
Very funny! Have you been through all my posts looking for statements I made on Jetstar Asia? Perhaps you should take up satirical comedy as that "statement" you quoted is actually a question. So, again I ask you, what was it I said about Jetstar Asia that was wrong?
And how is this statement of mine:
Not that kind of "operational" but the "management operational
This is riotous! Keep it coming!
And where/when did I say that Jetstar would not be dropping the $15 fee? My only statement on this was to express disbelief as to whether the Jetstar staff member did or did not say certain words!
Congratulations on what was quite possibly the most humourous post I have ever read on PPRUNE!
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LL...............
I remeber clearly the "JetStar Asia? What Jetstar Asia?", after that I stopped reading aircraft posts, as it was evident his knowledge was very limited. A 15 yr old young Liberal I think someone said
But as the Jaded Biloer & Keg I all said this morning - dont' encourage it ny answering
I remeber clearly the "JetStar Asia? What Jetstar Asia?", after that I stopped reading aircraft posts, as it was evident his knowledge was very limited. A 15 yr old young Liberal I think someone said
But as the Jaded Biloer & Keg I all said this morning - dont' encourage it ny answering
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Fliegenmong.....Yes you are right,my fault as I am the eternal optimist but I do learn from my mistakes and from now on will ignore aircraft.
From his posts he does resemble a 15 year old from the young Liberals.Probably genuflects every morning before a pic of Bob Menzies and little Johnny.
Whatever the case,it appears his lifts don't go to the top floor if you get my drift.
From his posts he does resemble a 15 year old from the young Liberals.Probably genuflects every morning before a pic of Bob Menzies and little Johnny.
Whatever the case,it appears his lifts don't go to the top floor if you get my drift.
So what, in your opinion, does indicate good/poor management?
Although a bit on the strict side, this would be my definition of good management. Of course, this definition would also apply to a wild animal that successfully competes with other animals in order to survive!
The humans that comprise the management will occasionally make mistakes. Nobody is perfect - pilots make mistakes too. The successful animal will make the odd mistake too, but whilst it remains alive to fight another day it can be said to be displaying "good management".
The Ansett collapse? By my definition, poor management. But perhaps that is obvious - is my definition too strict?
By my definition, the management of Qantas and Jetstar is nothing short of outstanding. They have made little mistakes along the way but those are to be expected. The main thing is that they have identified the threats and opportunities and made appropriate responses.
To continue the wild animal analogy, Qantas and Jetstar are not just surviving but growing and becoming more dominant.
There are some posters that like to trot out a list of mistakes that Qantas has made. This list is the supposed evidence of poor management and is almost always the same and contains about 5 items (one of the items on the list is something about an A330-200 - I can't remember the others right now).
To those posters that like to quote these mistakes as the evidence that Qantas management is poor I say: is that the best you can do? I would say that a list of 5 or so little mistakes is more like resounding evidence of good management.
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"What airline Jetstar Asia?".....Is there an airline called jetstar Asia?.....Where is it based?......Who owns Jetstar asia?.....How many planes do they have?....
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aircraft,
Yeah well, that's all a bit vague. I've yet to see anything of substance backing up your arguments.
How about trotting out a list of things they've done right?
Do a search on this forum. If you read past the emotion, there are plenty of very solid examples of bad management (a LOT more than 5). Worse than that, their handling of the APA takeover has the potential of seeing criminal legal proceedings against them, if the government or a group of shareholders decide to push the point. Is that good management?
Believe it or not, we as Qantas employees have a greater vested interest in seeing Qantas survive than the board does. We were here when they arrived, we'll be here when they've gone.
Considering we are the ones who are seeing and living Qantas' "outstanding" management, maybe you should pay a little more attention to what we have to say.
Yeah well, that's all a bit vague. I've yet to see anything of substance backing up your arguments.
There are some posters that like to trot out a list of mistakes that Qantas has made. This list is the supposed evidence of poor management and is almost always the same and contains about 5 items
Do a search on this forum. If you read past the emotion, there are plenty of very solid examples of bad management (a LOT more than 5). Worse than that, their handling of the APA takeover has the potential of seeing criminal legal proceedings against them, if the government or a group of shareholders decide to push the point. Is that good management?
Believe it or not, we as Qantas employees have a greater vested interest in seeing Qantas survive than the board does. We were here when they arrived, we'll be here when they've gone.
Considering we are the ones who are seeing and living Qantas' "outstanding" management, maybe you should pay a little more attention to what we have to say.
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How is this for good management aircraft? Remembering that the principle responsibility of management is to make a good return for the shareholders.
*Identifying several areas of a business which are undervalued.
*Decide to invite a private equity bid which will install you as a partner and gift you one percent of the total value of the company.
*Don't tell anyone about it.
*Publicly run the company's prospects down to ensure the share price remains low.
*Tell the staff the same thing, whilst running active campaigns to casualise the workforce and destroying morale.
*When the bid arrives, make mealy mouthed utterances about how you are going to give away your 60 million bonus, whilst saying nothing about the 170 million that you will recieve when the company is refloated, plus your salary and bonus. (conservatively 250 million in total).
*Whe the bid falls through, have the utter gall to pretend nothing has happened, that you weren't actually trying to fleece the shareholders of what rightfully should have been theirs, and then try to bare-face it to the staff as well.
Does that sound like a good way to manage a company? Does that sound like sound management, ethical behaviour? Or is it the criminal behaviour we all suspect?
You sir, are an.....
BTW
FOG
*Identifying several areas of a business which are undervalued.
*Decide to invite a private equity bid which will install you as a partner and gift you one percent of the total value of the company.
*Don't tell anyone about it.
*Publicly run the company's prospects down to ensure the share price remains low.
*Tell the staff the same thing, whilst running active campaigns to casualise the workforce and destroying morale.
*When the bid arrives, make mealy mouthed utterances about how you are going to give away your 60 million bonus, whilst saying nothing about the 170 million that you will recieve when the company is refloated, plus your salary and bonus. (conservatively 250 million in total).
*Whe the bid falls through, have the utter gall to pretend nothing has happened, that you weren't actually trying to fleece the shareholders of what rightfully should have been theirs, and then try to bare-face it to the staff as well.
Does that sound like a good way to manage a company? Does that sound like sound management, ethical behaviour? Or is it the criminal behaviour we all suspect?
You sir, are an.....
BTW
FOG
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Here we go again!
Check out Westaway's comment right at the bottom.... 
http://www.dailymercury.com.au:80/lo...condsubsection=
http://www.dailymercury.com.au:80/lo...condsubsection=
So if Jetstar's standards are up there with Qantas Group, how come the Qantas Regionals and Mainline do more simulators than Jetstar?
Qantas Group only if it suits them.........
Qantas Group only if it suits them.........
Hello Nev,
Jetstar Line Pilots do 4 sim sessions per year, 16 sim hrs per year, 4 days in the sim per year, any other way you cut it it's the same amount of sim check and training (mainly checking) as Qantas Link (eastern) or Qantas Mainline are required to do. Talk to some of the other people outside the Qantas Group and you may also find some similarities between sim programs. Just because it is different to the way Qantas does it, doesnt mean that it is worse.
Question to Nev,
Sunstate Pilots do 3 sim sessions per year, does this make them lesser pilots because they do one less sim session than Eastern, or better because they meet the standard in one less session?
Jetstar Line Pilots do 4 sim sessions per year, 16 sim hrs per year, 4 days in the sim per year, any other way you cut it it's the same amount of sim check and training (mainly checking) as Qantas Link (eastern) or Qantas Mainline are required to do. Talk to some of the other people outside the Qantas Group and you may also find some similarities between sim programs. Just because it is different to the way Qantas does it, doesnt mean that it is worse.
Question to Nev,
Sunstate Pilots do 3 sim sessions per year, does this make them lesser pilots because they do one less sim session than Eastern, or better because they meet the standard in one less session?
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Lowerlobe - can you tell me if Virgin log their on-time departures based on the same criteria as every one else (namely J*)?
Once you have worked that out perhaps you might admit how myopic your comments on this topic are.
Once you have worked that out perhaps you might admit how myopic your comments on this topic are.
Passengers applaud as pilots beat storm
16.10.2007
AS a violent electrical storm buffeted their Jetstar flight over Mackay on Friday night, Kim Ainslie grasped her daughter's hand and tried to assure the tearful 19-year-old everything would be okay.
In truth, she was just as scared as her daughter despite having flown hundreds of times in all manner of aircraft as a former member of the Royal Australian Air Force.
Kim, 46, and Tiarna Ainslie, both of Andergrove, were among 149 passengers aboard flight JQ890 from Brisbane to Mackay which moments earlier was forced to abort, at the last moment, a landing attempt at Mackay airport after lightning struck the runway.
Passengers were then forced to endure a terrifying 25 minutes of uncertainty as the pilots repositioned the 177-seat Airbus A320 for a second landing attempt.
The plane finally landed around 7.30pm.
"It's the scariest ride I've ever had and I've had more than 300 flights all over the world," said Kim, a real estate agent with Ray White.
"When it took off again I did fear for my life.
"We were very, very scared and I'm sure 80% of the passengers on board were the same."
Kim said the passengers erupted into a round of applause when the plane landed safely.
"I believe there were definitely moments of danger," she said. "Thank you so much to the pilots."
Tiarna said the quick-thinking pilots could have saved their lives.
"When we were walking out I told the crew to tell the pilots they did an excellent job," she said.
Jetstar spokesperson Simon Westaway confirmed the plane missed an approach because of poor weather.
"We're a Qantas group airline and we adhere to the most stringent safety standards," he said.
16.10.2007
AS a violent electrical storm buffeted their Jetstar flight over Mackay on Friday night, Kim Ainslie grasped her daughter's hand and tried to assure the tearful 19-year-old everything would be okay.
In truth, she was just as scared as her daughter despite having flown hundreds of times in all manner of aircraft as a former member of the Royal Australian Air Force.
Kim, 46, and Tiarna Ainslie, both of Andergrove, were among 149 passengers aboard flight JQ890 from Brisbane to Mackay which moments earlier was forced to abort, at the last moment, a landing attempt at Mackay airport after lightning struck the runway.
Passengers were then forced to endure a terrifying 25 minutes of uncertainty as the pilots repositioned the 177-seat Airbus A320 for a second landing attempt.
The plane finally landed around 7.30pm.
"It's the scariest ride I've ever had and I've had more than 300 flights all over the world," said Kim, a real estate agent with Ray White.
"When it took off again I did fear for my life.
"We were very, very scared and I'm sure 80% of the passengers on board were the same."
Kim said the passengers erupted into a round of applause when the plane landed safely.
"I believe there were definitely moments of danger," she said. "Thank you so much to the pilots."
Tiarna said the quick-thinking pilots could have saved their lives.
"When we were walking out I told the crew to tell the pilots they did an excellent job," she said.
Jetstar spokesperson Simon Westaway confirmed the plane missed an approach because of poor weather.
"We're a Qantas group airline and we adhere to the most stringent safety standards," he said.