Virgin Pilot's EBA
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tent
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We have fatigue management at EK and you would not believe what the computer spits out.You will have a bunch of non pilots sipping Latte's entering
data into a fatigue module which wiil decide what is a fatiguing pattern and what is not.It seems you guys had them by the proverbials.Only time will tell.
data into a fatigue module which wiil decide what is a fatiguing pattern and what is not.It seems you guys had them by the proverbials.Only time will tell.
Is this the same FMS that was based on train drivers?
Pearl used it for a couple of years and both the pilot group and management decided to drop it like a you know what.
Even if it is not the same one, may I suggest it is to be treated with care.
Once burnt, twice shy.
Pearl used it for a couple of years and both the pilot group and management decided to drop it like a you know what.
Even if it is not the same one, may I suggest it is to be treated with care.
Once burnt, twice shy.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney
Age: 53
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Oh please!!...stop the bitching!...
I am sure the EBA might have a clause or two, but the fatigue management system itself has no set limits - except a fatigue score...
Is this the same FMS that was based on train drivers?
Overnights will be reduced to a minimum as they can pax you home with no penalty or cost.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AssStrapped2aSAAB340
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Krumlov, I only worked under it for three years. For two separate and quite reputable GA companies
It is a free-for-all... fine when your building exp. Does anyone really think this will bring a net benefit to an already undervalued profession?
It is a free-for-all... fine when your building exp. Does anyone really think this will bring a net benefit to an already undervalued profession?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Straya
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"wethereyet"
Virgin will not be using the dreaded "fatigue management system" that many loathe and distrust. It has drafted a set or work rules based on the British CAP371 and will replace CAO48, providing it is approved by CASA. This satisfies CASA's requirement to have a "fatigue management system" in place but is not remotely related to any PC algorithm based metod you may have encountered in GA.
Virgin will not be using the dreaded "fatigue management system" that many loathe and distrust. It has drafted a set or work rules based on the British CAP371 and will replace CAO48, providing it is approved by CASA. This satisfies CASA's requirement to have a "fatigue management system" in place but is not remotely related to any PC algorithm based metod you may have encountered in GA.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oz
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Amos and Krumlov, it's about proportion not bitching. Congrats to the 47% of VB's who understood that much.
Twenty short years ago you could buy a pretty decent shack in Brisvegas for 100K and that was about what an airline skipper earned.
Now you need 7-800K for the roof over your noggin and the earning is south of 200K.
Something's amiss!!!
Twenty short years ago you could buy a pretty decent shack in Brisvegas for 100K and that was about what an airline skipper earned.
Now you need 7-800K for the roof over your noggin and the earning is south of 200K.
Something's amiss!!!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: melbourne
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I am always amused when pilot's talk about sticking together in Industrial negotiations because one thing that history has shown is that they almost never do ( in this country anyway). Any Eba vote is always about what the individual thinks, not the self appointed generals in the ranks. What is suitable for one person is unacceptable for another and to denigrate them for that really shows some interesting character traits. Any management is trying to get the numbers right to get the YES vote they need. It shows that they are not paying too much on a pure economic point of view. The first vote going down in flames showed that they were well short and they reacted. Even if you offered Cathay A scale wages you wouldn't please everyone. This Eba Vote is over so get on with your life.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AssStrapped2aSAAB340
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coaldemon, there are some of us who don't believe in the "ME, NOW!" of modern society.
Those of us who can see that only through sticking together strongly against the wealthy and greedy can a net gain be achieved for real people. To denigrate somebody for a short sighted indivualistic approach in industrial relations is a good thing
. If we all become "ME, NOW" people we are a lesser species than monkies.
Those of us who can see that only through sticking together strongly against the wealthy and greedy can a net gain be achieved for real people. To denigrate somebody for a short sighted indivualistic approach in industrial relations is a good thing
. If we all become "ME, NOW" people we are a lesser species than monkies.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney
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This EBA was not so much about money, it was about life style and the ability for the comany to live up to it's promise's. They have sold this document with so many promises, a few "will endevours" and a deed for the 777 flying that is not worth the piece of paper it's written on and a threat to take away the EMB from the F/O's.
If these promises are not lived up to, and they have a very bad track record with promises, the staff will really become dis-engaged. And the problem with this is no one really wants to leave and no one really will. So the place will self destruct.
I hope the management get this right, the ball is in their court now, and it's up to them to act in good faith and with a changed attitude to how things are done and implemented. For all parties involved, I hope the "will endevours" work. Time will tell.
If these promises are not lived up to, and they have a very bad track record with promises, the staff will really become dis-engaged. And the problem with this is no one really wants to leave and no one really will. So the place will self destruct.
I hope the management get this right, the ball is in their court now, and it's up to them to act in good faith and with a changed attitude to how things are done and implemented. For all parties involved, I hope the "will endevours" work. Time will tell.
Pass-A-Frozo:
don't have to imagine mate, remember August 1989? 95% left and the companies manged to scrape through somehow. All be it with the Govts help.
Just imagine if 47% of pilots moved to another airline.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 38,000 ft
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Can anyone comment on rumours of decreased overnights? Apparently owing to the establishment of more bases?
Also with the introduction of the E-jet there possibly may be more o/n in other ports as we see more aircraft spend the night in ADL, CBR, etc.
With the CC EBA which will be working off the same rules if voted in, I had heard that it will mean about 50% of the flying would be day trips and the other 50% would be overnights.
So too many variables at this stage and as the new rostering system wont be here for 6 months to early to tell.
