Toothpaste Terrorism?

[VH-Cheer Up]

Departing YMML for points overseas recently was asked to show my little plastic ziplock bag with any fluids or pastes. Mine contained only a nearly empty tube of Colgate (just enough to clean teeth a couple of times on flight).

The knuckledragger inspected the bag and told me "Mate, it's not what's left in it, it's how much it has stamped on the container that's what matters". He was alluding to the fact my 110g tube of toothpaste which contained maybe 5g of contents was outside the prescribed limit of 100ml per item. Or it would have been if full.

I invited him to keep the toothpaste and he then started implying that I had some plot to bring down the aircraft using the empty space in my toothpaste tube. I started thinking I must have caught this guy on a day he had sent his brain back for repair under warranty. I persuaded him to confiscate the toothpaste and let me continue my journey to Malaysia, which after consultation with a second guard, he eventually condescended to do.

What's with this? Where does it say in the regs that it's all about the size of the tube, not how much toothpaste it contains? When it's patently obvious that there's bugger all substance left in the tube, why would they even bother?

Is there any history of toothpaste being used to bring down an aircraft?

This all seems like bureaucracy gone mad.

[Skystar320]

yeah mate its driving the ***** **** outta me, its so annoying when you carry contact liquid for contacts in your eyes and the bottles are

[WynSock]

LOL


The "knuckledragger".

So true.

"I was an unemployable, brain dead low life. Now thanks to paranoia, I'm a very important security person with a very smart uniform"

I shudder to think how much these twits get paid....

[squawk6969]

You are joking surely...

Just for the point of it, if the regs say 100ml, thats volume. 105g is mass. Water SG=1.0 toothpaste is quite likely 1.5 (I am not that bored that I have weighed a known volume of it), so in reality you probably have every right to take a full tube of 105g toothpaste.

As for contact lenses, when I fly Long Haul I take the lens case in my laptop case prefilled, they can be put in and taken out once with out needing a refill from the bottle in my luggage. Otherwise glasses it is. Just to avoid the moronic rules and security folk.

When will this garbage end?

SQ

[Skystar320]

Easy and simple:

Take your ID out of your back pocket.

"Okay thats great NEXT!!!!"

[VH-Cheer Up]

When will this garbage end?

It won't. They'll keep making more security changes until we are all safely locked up at home and able to go nowhere.

I remember a book called 1984, and I thought it was a ludicrous scenario. But now it's all coming true.

As for the specific gravity comparison issue, I thought of bringing that up, but I took one look at those sunken, dead eyes, and the barely healed scabs on the guy's knuckles, and thought,:"Nah, what's the point. Keep the feckin' toothpaste."

We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

My ID? You think that would have made any difference?

I have to wonder whether there is a deep-seated culture of resentment and jealousy with these guys. Day after day they get to inspect little placcy bags, while the persons carrying them are going off to work they love which takes them overseas, or else on glamorous holidays. It's only natural they'd get a bit bored and ticked off, I guess.

[Skystar320]

Your ID in meaning to what you are:

I.e.

[murgatroid]

Just for the point of it, if the regs say 100ml, thats volume. 105g is mass. Water SG=1.0 toothpaste is quite likely 1.5 (I am not that bored that I have weighed a known volume of it), so in reality you probably have every right to take a full tube of 105g toothpaste.

If you look at the DOTARS website, it actually says containers must be less than "100mls/grams".

Nice try though. Bet a lot of security people have nice clean white teeth now.

[fallen]

The regs say 100ml/100g. They do say container size not contents. Why they don't take into account the amount of content is beyond me but I would guess it's to make things easier and consistent.

I seem to remember that they originally said 100ml only. Elsewhere it was stated that 100ml is approx 100g. Now 100g has been stated more prominently.

The bulk density of toothpaste is about 1.3, I Googled it, so yes your 110g container is in fact about 85ml. However you can't expect the screening officer to know this or expect them to get their calculators out for each of your containers. I assume that for this reason the regulations make the assumption that 1g=1ml.

[Dream Land]

The knuckledragger inspected the bag and told me "Mate, it's not what's left in it, it's how much it has stamped on the container that's what matters". He was alluding to the fact my 110g tube of toothpaste which contained maybe 5g of contents was outside the prescribed limit of 100ml per item. Or it would have been if full

What about the fact that you can fit much more than 100ml in the clear plastic bag?

[Go Right Ahead]

Love their responses

I have one of those F/J packs we get onboard with all the goodies inside, I have converted one into my Long Haul ammeneties kit. After losing my big toothpaste, aftershave and listerine a while back, i figured this would be a better solution. That said.

Recently I was stopped at security and told to empty the contents of my little pack, which i did. All was under or @ 100ml. This halfwit then said you must have this in a plastic bag, to which I said "What's the difference?"

So he put in all in a small plastic bag and handed back to me, and I proceeded to put the plastic bag inside my little pack again, which to my amazement he replied "That's how you should carry it".

Then i said to him, you know if i wanted to bring this plane down all I need to do is point the nose down after T/O. So all this is pointless on the crew, i understand doing it to the Pax but the crew, it's just ridiculous. Again for the record book, he said "Well mate if it wasnt for me you would not have a job". This was the final straw, to which i replied "Mate i was in a job before your job was even created, so if it wasnt for me you wouldnt have a job and if you were'nt here the plane would still take off".

Finally he said, "you know we must look like we are doing something in the eye of the public", in my frustration I said "The public are just as annoyed and dont really give a sh*t about this whole secuity thing, they know its all a big joke"........

[Dream Land]

"you know we must look like we are doing something in the eye of the public",

As a member of the flying public, I don't need to see the airport security officers shaking down my OPERATING flight crew, while at the same time the teenage girl that's been working at Burger King for one month get's to go through a staff entrance.

[nasa]

You Just Gotta Luv 'Em

Recently flew to Cebu to do an inspection on an aircraft. Away for a few days only, travel light, backpack and that's it!!! Went and stole one of the kids pencil cases, which is clear, not as big as 1 ltr, and has a zip. Thinks me, can get all I need in here and it won't fall out. Gets to the security, and met with the cousin of your security dude VH-Cheer Up, and bugger me if he says, "Nope, won't do, you'll need to put it in one of these" and hands me a 1 ltr zip lock bag. He continues with "Shouldn't give you one of these, but seeing as how you went to all the effort, I'll give you a break". Just shook my head and walked off in amazement.
Leaving Cebu, NO fluids whatsoever allowed in your carry on. Told him to get fvck@d and left him standing at the x-ray with his mouth open. His offsider comes after me and chases me down and starts with the "No no no no" BS. " You must put it in you checked baggage". "I aint got no checked baggage dipsh!t says I, and walked off. Nothing more said or done.
Stupidity has taken over............When my kids get together with all their mates and start carrying on like idiots, I refer to them as the Idi, plural for a collection of idiots. Methinks maybe the world wide security should carry a badge with Idi written on it...........

[flitegirl]

Skystar, regarding your contact solution, it's classed in the "medication" category and therefore you can carry a separate bottle that is larger than 100ml. Carry the pamphlet with you (from the airport) and show it to the knuckledraggers when they start to argue!!

[ditzyboy]

What's with this? Where does it say in the regs that it's all about the size of the tube, not how much toothpaste it contains?

The DOTARS website says that for the purposes of the excerise 110g of anything shall equal 110mL.

The website also states that any container that can hold more than 100mL can only pass throught security checkpoints when empty.


It's all cr@p if you ask me.

[TwinNDB]

So does that mean if VH-Cheer up had brushed his teeth at the security point, finished off the tube he could have taken it through empty instead of the 5g or so left?

[Taildragger67]

Go Right Ahead,



But, isn't this something the union should be taking up with DOTARS? Just like it's not worth your jobs to kick up too much of a stink at the individual level, surely it's not worth theirs to give an individual the benefit of the doubt. As has been concluded on these threads, it cannot be relied upon that these people will have the wherewithall to pass crew comments back up the line (if they are ever given the opportunity to do so). No, what it takes is either a concerted action, or some crew member recognising the appropriate minister in the terminal one day and giving him a well-thought-out, measured earful.

[mustafagander]

I, too, have been bowled over by the toothpaste police. I had a 110g pack and as reported above had it confiscated. I argued the toss with the supervisor and the supervisor's supervisor - we had a 1 hour delay posted before sign on so I had the time for a bit of fun - but try as I might, nobody was prepared to pick up the phone and ask Colgate for the specs of their tube. I had, it's 85ml.

An amazing thing when I arrived in LA after this flight, in the local supermarket is Colgate toothpaste in a package labeled (on the actual tube) "100ml/148g". Imagine, metric in the U S of A!!

About the limits, I know not what DOTARS has on the web site this week, but their pamphlet "your guide" effective 31 March 2007 makes no mention of mass anywhere, only volume.

[gloriais18]

Say it through humour, or is it?

I'm not sure about the rules for posting links,but enjoy anyway!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykzqFz_nHZE

[Taildragger67]

Colgate do make tubes <100ml.

I wonder what size the tube is in the photo on this DOTARS web page...

Might also be worthwhile contacting the manufacturers or retailers (eg. Woolies or Soul Pattinson) to see where such sizes are available; seems silly that they make '110g' rather than just a nice, round 100g which would then be useful. Boots chemists in the UK have recently started labeling one of their shelves as 'Travel/trial size products', where you can get <100ml tubes of toothpaste, sun cream, etc.

Recently went through a large European airport, k'dragger wanted to see in, he pulled out my washbag (all containers well <100ml), but no big clear zip-lock bag. He insisted I put everything in a zip-lock bag (which he gave me), so I did as asked. Through the x-rayer, then all items straight back out of the zip-lock, into my purple washbag and off I went, leaving the empty zip-lock.

The only people benefitting from this are the makers ofthe plastic zip-lock bags.

Naturally I would never suggest getting the tube out and maintaining eye contact as th eremaining 5g gets squeezed over the knuckledragger's shoes...