Virgin - New Lower Cost Airline
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Virgin - New Lower Cost Airline
Has anyone heard about this?
LOW-COST carrier Virgin Blue may launch an ultra-cheap offshoot in three months.
Centre for Asia-Pacific Aviation chief Peter Harbison told The Daily Telegraph yesterday the carrier had begun feasibility studies and was confident of the plan.
Virgin Blue CEO Brett Godfrey had floated the idea in February, but claimed at the Australian Tourism Exchange in Brisbane this week the concept had grown legs.
"He made it clear they are well through the study and will complete it within three months," Mr Harbison said.
"He said once they had finished that they would be ready the next day, which implies they are going to get some more 737s, which means lots more aeroplanes and lots more seats."
Virgin Blue officials could not be contacted to confirm to move.
While the alleged move would co-incide with the introduction of low-cost Tiger Airway services in Australia, Harbison believes Virgin Blue was not bluffing.
"If they weren't keen to do it, they wouldn't be talking about it. No doubt they are trying to scare Tiger, but I think they are serious," he said.
The price war undoubtedly will put extra pressure on all the airlines involved.
LOW-COST carrier Virgin Blue may launch an ultra-cheap offshoot in three months.
Centre for Asia-Pacific Aviation chief Peter Harbison told The Daily Telegraph yesterday the carrier had begun feasibility studies and was confident of the plan.
Virgin Blue CEO Brett Godfrey had floated the idea in February, but claimed at the Australian Tourism Exchange in Brisbane this week the concept had grown legs.
"He made it clear they are well through the study and will complete it within three months," Mr Harbison said.
"He said once they had finished that they would be ready the next day, which implies they are going to get some more 737s, which means lots more aeroplanes and lots more seats."
Virgin Blue officials could not be contacted to confirm to move.
While the alleged move would co-incide with the introduction of low-cost Tiger Airway services in Australia, Harbison believes Virgin Blue was not bluffing.
"If they weren't keen to do it, they wouldn't be talking about it. No doubt they are trying to scare Tiger, but I think they are serious," he said.
The price war undoubtedly will put extra pressure on all the airlines involved.
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It's no secret that BG has stated VB have short listed up to 20 regional routes for the E-Jets.
Who will be the first regional centre in NSW to be offered a jet service that is currently serviced by a commuter turboprop ?
Yeah yeah, I know EW operated F28's and AN/Kendall's tried RJ's, but that was then.......what about the future ?
Who will be the first regional centre in NSW to be offered a jet service that is currently serviced by a commuter turboprop ?
Yeah yeah, I know EW operated F28's and AN/Kendall's tried RJ's, but that was then.......what about the future ?
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Owen Stanley you have kicked off an interesting thought, all of a sudden I have upgraded my view that "VB have a few real problems to address" to "they themselves,along with market forces, have dug them into a hole, be interesting to see how/if they can climb out!"
Consider:
- at present apparently 50% of Captain upgrades are failing; obviously the pool of airline background pilots (trained by other airlines, of course!) has dried up, the "tick in the box" cost effective checking system so loved by LCC's is having difficulty (at best) in throwing up successful candidates;
- there is a movement out of VB by some experienced crew (I hear 10 Captains over the last 2 months), some to the sandpit, others to Asia;
- as you alluded to, VB cough up the retention bonus soon - how many might say "thanks, been great, see ya!";
- talks now of a super LCC; no doubt like other balance sheet exercises it may well be crewed by the mothership and the costs creatively accounted for, regardless more aircraft require "more crew", one of whom desireably should be a "captain with experience" and those captains with experience are coming from ....where???;
- the REALLY interesting one is/are the JungleJets. Initially dangle a carrot, "experienced F/O's" get upgrades to command.
Now the reality would appear to be that MAYBE some F/O's would bid/request, one assumes the JJ F/O's would be out of GA on minimum scale so you have a new captain, on a new type, with an F/O with no airline experience. Interesting mix only because of the "QuizQuestion: if you are going to "f**k up is it more likely on a 3500m ILS runway or a 2000M VOR/D runway?? And which runway are the JJ probably going to operate into?? With new/inexperienced crews??"
- if they still want to fly international aircraft those aircraft need pilots, and they will come from...???
I believe interesting days INDEED for the VB crew, airline as a whole and - the shareholders!
On a more positive note - one can only assume there are commercial pressures to make sure aircraft fly (even if only by over-rated bus drivers!), the idea that Command upgrades are being "honestly" asessed by the Flight Department by failing some is reassuring.
Credit where credit is due!
Consider:
- at present apparently 50% of Captain upgrades are failing; obviously the pool of airline background pilots (trained by other airlines, of course!) has dried up, the "tick in the box" cost effective checking system so loved by LCC's is having difficulty (at best) in throwing up successful candidates;
- there is a movement out of VB by some experienced crew (I hear 10 Captains over the last 2 months), some to the sandpit, others to Asia;
- as you alluded to, VB cough up the retention bonus soon - how many might say "thanks, been great, see ya!";
- talks now of a super LCC; no doubt like other balance sheet exercises it may well be crewed by the mothership and the costs creatively accounted for, regardless more aircraft require "more crew", one of whom desireably should be a "captain with experience" and those captains with experience are coming from ....where???;
- the REALLY interesting one is/are the JungleJets. Initially dangle a carrot, "experienced F/O's" get upgrades to command.
Now the reality would appear to be that MAYBE some F/O's would bid/request, one assumes the JJ F/O's would be out of GA on minimum scale so you have a new captain, on a new type, with an F/O with no airline experience. Interesting mix only because of the "QuizQuestion: if you are going to "f**k up is it more likely on a 3500m ILS runway or a 2000M VOR/D runway?? And which runway are the JJ probably going to operate into?? With new/inexperienced crews??"
- if they still want to fly international aircraft those aircraft need pilots, and they will come from...???
I believe interesting days INDEED for the VB crew, airline as a whole and - the shareholders!
On a more positive note - one can only assume there are commercial pressures to make sure aircraft fly (even if only by over-rated bus drivers!), the idea that Command upgrades are being "honestly" asessed by the Flight Department by failing some is reassuring.
Credit where credit is due!
VB Lite
Looks like Virgin Lite will be a goer
Cut-price Virgin on the way
* Geoffrey Thomas
* June 01, 2007
HOW low can fares go? That is the question Virgin Blue, Australia's first truly successful low-cost carrier, is asking.
Faced with intense competition from Qantas subsidiary Jetstar and the imminent entry of Singapore-based Tiger Airways, the airline is re-examining its cost structure to set up an "even lower cost airline" within a "low-cost airline".
Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey confirmed that the lower cost operation would be up and running within three months.
The "Virgin Blue brand is heading upmarket", Mr Godfrey said this week.
It was courting business travellers and clear separation of brands was on the table.
Mr Godfrey likened the separation to that of Lexus and Toyota.
In recent years Virgin Blue has moved its product upmarket with lounges and a loyalty program, which add costs.
There are more costs coming in the form of a joint venture with its parent Toll Holdings, a long-haul fleet of 777-300ERs for international routes, and smaller regional jets.
The moves will all be part of what many suggest will be an airfare bloodbath later this year. Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon has said his airline group - Qantas and Jetstar - will defend its 65 per cent market share "no matter what".
However, lower costs come at a price, as a survey this week by Choice magazine reveals.
Jetstar rated well below Virgin Blue in a customer survey, according to Choice.
In fact, of the major airlines Virgin Blue rated higher across most parameters, and the highest score of 77 per cent was in "value for money".
It's likely that the new Virgin Blue ultra-low-cost aircraft will have more seats, like Tiger Airways' aircraft - and thus less leg room - and will only operate between the big capital cities.
The drive to cut costs has reached new lows in Europe, with low-cost giant Ryanair stripping out seat pockets and window shades on aircraft to save weight and costs.
On Virgin Blue's aircraft the seats are set between 78.5cm and 84cm apart, while Jetstar's are 76cm and those of Tiger Airways just 72.5cm.
It is expected that Tiger will remove some seats to cater for taller Australians.
Separately, Mr Godfrey said the airline would launch a public competition to choose a name for Virgin Blue's new US offshoot, which will use Boeing 777-300ERs to fly from Australia to the US west coast.
Virgin Blue is not able to use the Virgin name outside Australia, because of an agreement that was part of the deal when Singapore Airlines took a 49 per cent stake in Virgin Atlantic in 2000.
* Geoffrey Thomas
* June 01, 2007
HOW low can fares go? That is the question Virgin Blue, Australia's first truly successful low-cost carrier, is asking.
Faced with intense competition from Qantas subsidiary Jetstar and the imminent entry of Singapore-based Tiger Airways, the airline is re-examining its cost structure to set up an "even lower cost airline" within a "low-cost airline".
Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey confirmed that the lower cost operation would be up and running within three months.
The "Virgin Blue brand is heading upmarket", Mr Godfrey said this week.
It was courting business travellers and clear separation of brands was on the table.
Mr Godfrey likened the separation to that of Lexus and Toyota.
In recent years Virgin Blue has moved its product upmarket with lounges and a loyalty program, which add costs.
There are more costs coming in the form of a joint venture with its parent Toll Holdings, a long-haul fleet of 777-300ERs for international routes, and smaller regional jets.
The moves will all be part of what many suggest will be an airfare bloodbath later this year. Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon has said his airline group - Qantas and Jetstar - will defend its 65 per cent market share "no matter what".
However, lower costs come at a price, as a survey this week by Choice magazine reveals.
Jetstar rated well below Virgin Blue in a customer survey, according to Choice.
In fact, of the major airlines Virgin Blue rated higher across most parameters, and the highest score of 77 per cent was in "value for money".
It's likely that the new Virgin Blue ultra-low-cost aircraft will have more seats, like Tiger Airways' aircraft - and thus less leg room - and will only operate between the big capital cities.
The drive to cut costs has reached new lows in Europe, with low-cost giant Ryanair stripping out seat pockets and window shades on aircraft to save weight and costs.
On Virgin Blue's aircraft the seats are set between 78.5cm and 84cm apart, while Jetstar's are 76cm and those of Tiger Airways just 72.5cm.
It is expected that Tiger will remove some seats to cater for taller Australians.
Separately, Mr Godfrey said the airline would launch a public competition to choose a name for Virgin Blue's new US offshoot, which will use Boeing 777-300ERs to fly from Australia to the US west coast.
Virgin Blue is not able to use the Virgin name outside Australia, because of an agreement that was part of the deal when Singapore Airlines took a 49 per cent stake in Virgin Atlantic in 2000.
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How "low cost" will they attempt to go ?
We're already experiencing the new LCC world ( paying for pillows, blankets, food & beverages )
Will it get to this ?
"Excuse me Maam, but my overhead reading light does'nt seem to be working...
Ok no problems Sir, I can have it working for you, that will be $5.00 thanks"
Don't know if the info is correct, but a poster on another thread mentioned Ryanair have removed seat pockets and window shades from their aircraft to shave off weight and lower costs.
As a traveller, I'm all for cheaper airfares but what will they think of next ?
We're already experiencing the new LCC world ( paying for pillows, blankets, food & beverages )
Will it get to this ?
"Excuse me Maam, but my overhead reading light does'nt seem to be working...
Ok no problems Sir, I can have it working for you, that will be $5.00 thanks"
Don't know if the info is correct, but a poster on another thread mentioned Ryanair have removed seat pockets and window shades from their aircraft to shave off weight and lower costs.
As a traveller, I'm all for cheaper airfares
but what will they think of next ?
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me
"if they still want to fly international aircraft those aircraft need pilots, and they will come from...???"
Dear Galdian, this has come up before and I'll tell what has been said before. Forget about the many Aussie 777 Capts in EK who would come home to fly V's shiny 777's, there are many of the same in 1. Singapore 2. KAL 3.Brunei 4. Asiana etc etc. Don't wanna dampen the party but they'll crew the 1st few aeroplanes in a flash old mate.
Dear Galdian, this has come up before and I'll tell what has been said before. Forget about the many Aussie 777 Capts in EK who would come home to fly V's shiny 777's, there are many of the same in 1. Singapore 2. KAL 3.Brunei 4. Asiana etc etc. Don't wanna dampen the party but they'll crew the 1st few aeroplanes in a flash old mate.
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Don't know if the info is correct, but a poster on another thread mentioned Ryanair have removed seat pockets and window shades from their aircraft to shave off weight and lower costs.
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Coming soon:
I think (hope) that's 25 inches.
Here's the story:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/a...ept-170693.php
I think (hope) that's 25 inches.
Here's the story:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/a...ept-170693.php
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Hi Meagain
Totally depends on the package they put together - appears the A330 recruiting by Pornstar Intl did not result in the deluge of superbly qualified expat candidates they were banking on so why should VBIntl be so different??
The exchange rate is knocking the overseas contracts around markedly however talk to an expat and they're all hoping/waiting for the federal election expecting Rudd will win and the usual economic adjustment that mirrors a non-liberal government should see the exchange rate improve.
SQ allegedly have just given a 7 month bonus to all crews, can't see too many opting out there.
Commuting contracts whilst far from perfect do have one great positive - when you are on you consecutive days off somewhere in the world you will not get a phone call at 4.00am on a day off "requesting" you come to work. Your time is definately your own.
So if it comes down to the package what do YOU reckon would be required to give them a good data base to draw from??
Personally I reckon anything below AUD 200 would be a waste of time, 220 would get a few nibbles and 240+ should give them a good data base.
Watch the beancounters cough up furballs when told they will have to pay 240K for glorified bus drivers. Priceless!!
Whilst the international side of things will be interesting to watch I am far more fascinated (for the reasons in previous post) by the domestic VB pilot side of things - I really believe they have dug themselves into a hole and will watch with great interest how (if??) they can dig themselves out.
Totally depends on the package they put together - appears the A330 recruiting by Pornstar Intl did not result in the deluge of superbly qualified expat candidates they were banking on so why should VBIntl be so different??
The exchange rate is knocking the overseas contracts around markedly however talk to an expat and they're all hoping/waiting for the federal election expecting Rudd will win and the usual economic adjustment that mirrors a non-liberal government should see the exchange rate improve.
SQ allegedly have just given a 7 month bonus to all crews, can't see too many opting out there.
Commuting contracts whilst far from perfect do have one great positive - when you are on you consecutive days off somewhere in the world you will not get a phone call at 4.00am on a day off "requesting" you come to work. Your time is definately your own.
So if it comes down to the package what do YOU reckon would be required to give them a good data base to draw from??
Personally I reckon anything below AUD 200 would be a waste of time, 220 would get a few nibbles and 240+ should give them a good data base.
Watch the beancounters cough up furballs when told they will have to pay 240K for glorified bus drivers. Priceless!!
Whilst the international side of things will be interesting to watch I am far more fascinated (for the reasons in previous post) by the domestic VB pilot side of things - I really believe they have dug themselves into a hole and will watch with great interest how (if??) they can dig themselves out.
CX do Australian basings, Korean Air have commuting contracts where you get to spend a similar amount of time in Oz to a QF longhaul pilot. Japan commuting jobs available too. Six weeks in two out with Vietnam Airlines. Ethiad looking for over 400 pilots by the end of this year.
If you are willing to commute, or spend a bit more time away, and have reasonable jet experience there is plenty on offer at the moment.
Requirements are getting lower every month, have a look at Eva Air or China Airlines, turbo prop time just fine for them.
With the ATO stealing 45% of everything over $150 000/year, Aussie operators will need to offer some interesting packages if they expect to attract and retain the pilots they need.
If you are willing to commute, or spend a bit more time away, and have reasonable jet experience there is plenty on offer at the moment.
Requirements are getting lower every month, have a look at Eva Air or China Airlines, turbo prop time just fine for them.
With the ATO stealing 45% of everything over $150 000/year, Aussie operators will need to offer some interesting packages if they expect to attract and retain the pilots they need.
bushy,
Not quite sure what you mean there, whether a possible influx of foreign crews,(I can see even more carrots required for that one).
Or Industrial action!? What would be the point? without mentioning the draconian I/R laws we now have in this country, I believe we professional pilots now have the buggers by the b#%$s. All we have to do is sit back, take a breath, and choose the operator offering the best deal!
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the respective ivory towers as these self serving HR and management types struggle to come to grips with the looming reality.
Quote: "Sometimes you get a pooch that can't be screwed".
galdian,
Love your posts man. very informative. Keep 'em comming.
Not quite sure what you mean there, whether a possible influx of foreign crews,(I can see even more carrots required for that one).
Or Industrial action!? What would be the point? without mentioning the draconian I/R laws we now have in this country, I believe we professional pilots now have the buggers by the b#%$s. All we have to do is sit back, take a breath, and choose the operator offering the best deal!
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the respective ivory towers as these self serving HR and management types struggle to come to grips with the looming reality.
Quote: "Sometimes you get a pooch that can't be screwed".
galdian,
Love your posts man. very informative. Keep 'em comming.
