Jetstar application payment???
Join Date: Jul 2006
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The wheel ALWAYS turns in life and I think we'll all be around to see it turn on these c@#%$ in the very near future when they run out of desperates who want to pay their way ahead.
Not really knocking the applicants as much as the opportunistic grubs who come up with these pay for everything schemes. Honestly! They are charging $5:00 for those tacky wings. Anyone who thinks this is okay " has a mental problem ".
GUARD
Not really knocking the applicants as much as the opportunistic grubs who come up with these pay for everything schemes. Honestly! They are charging $5:00 for those tacky wings. Anyone who thinks this is okay " has a mental problem ".
GUARD
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I wont be ever applying for this "company" unless they make some drastic changes. I really hope they get caught out in the fututre but I think the masses still have a way to go until they stop accepting these conditions.
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the paying for everything wont change sadly..
you have a credit card? you pay a fee for the privalidge of paying! pay cash? cant do that.. its credit card only! (cant put a fee on paying with cash!)
the user pays thing has permeated all aspects of society.. when will it end?
you have a credit card? you pay a fee for the privalidge of paying! pay cash? cant do that.. its credit card only! (cant put a fee on paying with cash!)
the user pays thing has permeated all aspects of society.. when will it end?
Join Date: Jul 2002
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This is really disgusting. There are reasonably strong whispers floating around that the endorsement fee will become a bond style arrangement. Already the shortage is starting to bite back!!.
There are some long of fences around airports. If you know what I mean.
DM
There are some long of fences around airports. If you know what I mean.
DM
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Quite happy with a large regional who i have been with for a while and really amazed with the amount of guys moving on to jet jobs in recent months, like a couple a week !!
Thinking about moving on myself but with the s@@t this mob is pulling im still to be convinced that the 10 years of blood sweat and tears i have put into getting to where i am..... are they even worthy of my application and that of my peers??
Thinking about moving on myself but with the s@@t this mob is pulling im still to be convinced that the 10 years of blood sweat and tears i have put into getting to where i am..... are they even worthy of my application and that of my peers??
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This is scummy, but not new.
Impulse charged an "administration" fee for flight attendant applications when they started up, about twenty dollars from memory. It was for the initial application, too.
I don't know how long they kept it up for, but I remember they came in for a fair bit of criticism in the media.
Twenty dollars multiplied by a few thousand applicants would have been a tidy little earner.
Impulse charged an "administration" fee for flight attendant applications when they started up, about twenty dollars from memory. It was for the initial application, too.
I don't know how long they kept it up for, but I remember they came in for a fair bit of criticism in the media.
Twenty dollars multiplied by a few thousand applicants would have been a tidy little earner.
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Ultralights.. it will change, even the greedy arrogant sycophants running pornstar know that they will be using their shiny new planes as advertising billboards parked up against a fence somewhere in the very near future.
The answer has always been simple but pilots who pay for the rating only screw it up for the rest.
Just answer 'No' when filling out the online application form, perhaps just ignore them altogether. Then you'll see some progress.
Blue Foot
The answer has always been simple but pilots who pay for the rating only screw it up for the rest.
Just answer 'No' when filling out the online application form, perhaps just ignore them altogether. Then you'll see some progress.
Blue Foot
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An idea?
Here's a thought...someone drop a line to the media and make them chuck it on the news. Can't be that hard. If every pruner sent in an email to Ch7/9/10 surely they would get it on the news. Might make J* sit up...then lay back down of course, but worth a shot.
The ignorance of capitalist economics that is displayed in this thread is breathtaking.
Hands up all those that hold shares in some company.
Now, of you shareholders, how many of you have no objection to your company not recovering those costs of doing business that are easily recoverable?
This is the economic argument for the application fee. It is the exact same argument that applies to "charging for the endorsement". Very simple, and surely very simple to understand.
The issue of whether to charge for such things, and how much to charge, is also governed by simple economics. Think "supply and demand" and things may start to make some sense.
Despite what you probably think, those in charge of airline recruiting are not idiots and are well aware of the effects of such charges. They know how many applicants they have, the quality of those applicants, and how many get all the way through the process. If it should become necessary to enlarge the pool of applicants, such "barriers" will be lowered accordingly.
By the way, it is not necessarily true that an airline will have a higher standard of pilot if they weren't to charge for such things.
Hands up all those that hold shares in some company.
Now, of you shareholders, how many of you have no objection to your company not recovering those costs of doing business that are easily recoverable?
This is the economic argument for the application fee. It is the exact same argument that applies to "charging for the endorsement". Very simple, and surely very simple to understand.
The issue of whether to charge for such things, and how much to charge, is also governed by simple economics. Think "supply and demand" and things may start to make some sense.
Despite what you probably think, those in charge of airline recruiting are not idiots and are well aware of the effects of such charges. They know how many applicants they have, the quality of those applicants, and how many get all the way through the process. If it should become necessary to enlarge the pool of applicants, such "barriers" will be lowered accordingly.
By the way, it is not necessarily true that an airline will have a higher standard of pilot if they weren't to charge for such things.
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From Aircraft "By the way, it is not necessarily true that an airline will have a higher standard of pilot if they weren't to charge for such things."
I must agree. Since when did paying for anything (application / endorsement) mean you were a bad/inexperienced/ pilot? If I'm not mistaken, we all paid for our training - except the military types. Because we paid, does that make us all bad eggs who are jumping the cue??
Isn't paying for a type rating (as unpalatable as it is) just an extension to our training? How many here have had a GA boss say "come work for me flying my twins - oh you don't have a twin endorsement?? don't worry I'll cover that!" NOT MANY I BET!
Don't get me wrong - I would rather have the cash in my pocket than in theirs, but lets get real - and just in case you haven't read it somewhere else on this forum - supply and demand.
You can sit there with the attitude that the World/J*/VB OWE you something because you're a pilot, or you can accept the conditions on offer at the time, and make something out of it. Why are the majors expected to pay for your rating, when every other rating/training you have conducted in the past has been self funded?
Do hospitals pay for Doctors to go to Uni??
"Hello hospital, I've done a few splints, put on a few bandages and dressed a pretty nasty paper cut. I see you are advertising for qualified Doctors - no, I'm not fully qualified, but if you pay for my degree, I'd love to work for you."
Paying for everything sucks - if you are the payee, but is great if you are the company/shareholders.
It is a brave new world.
I must agree. Since when did paying for anything (application / endorsement) mean you were a bad/inexperienced/ pilot? If I'm not mistaken, we all paid for our training - except the military types. Because we paid, does that make us all bad eggs who are jumping the cue??
Isn't paying for a type rating (as unpalatable as it is) just an extension to our training? How many here have had a GA boss say "come work for me flying my twins - oh you don't have a twin endorsement?? don't worry I'll cover that!" NOT MANY I BET!
Don't get me wrong - I would rather have the cash in my pocket than in theirs, but lets get real - and just in case you haven't read it somewhere else on this forum - supply and demand.
You can sit there with the attitude that the World/J*/VB OWE you something because you're a pilot, or you can accept the conditions on offer at the time, and make something out of it. Why are the majors expected to pay for your rating, when every other rating/training you have conducted in the past has been self funded?
Do hospitals pay for Doctors to go to Uni??
"Hello hospital, I've done a few splints, put on a few bandages and dressed a pretty nasty paper cut. I see you are advertising for qualified Doctors - no, I'm not fully qualified, but if you pay for my degree, I'd love to work for you."
Paying for everything sucks - if you are the payee, but is great if you are the company/shareholders.
It is a brave new world.
aircraft, from your profile you state you are an ATPL holder and your current type is a PA28.
Not knowing you, I can only assume that you're new to the industry and with an ATPL you may wish to make avaition your career?
The statement you have made displays a huge degree of naivety.
Do you seriously want to work in the industry you have discribed?
If your aim in life is to become an "airline pilot", then what prospects do you hold for your long term career, if you accept the conditions you endorse?
Not knowing you, I can only assume that you're new to the industry and with an ATPL you may wish to make avaition your career?
The statement you have made displays a huge degree of naivety.
Do you seriously want to work in the industry you have discribed?
If your aim in life is to become an "airline pilot", then what prospects do you hold for your long term career, if you accept the conditions you endorse?
Can't be that hard. If every pruner sent in an email to Ch7/9/10 surely they would get it on the news
I'm writing to a current affair now. Maybe all of you should do the same.
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/feedback/d...spx?formid=228
Sorry Sid, I reckon "aircraft" is probably righter than you may think. I do think, unfortunately, that JQ do have a look at the applicant pool and know what quality they have in line and therefore have judged how much they can push this "charge for everything" bool****.
I have a JQ app in - I have 9000 total time, couple of thousand on both A330 and A320. Haven't heard a peep from them. Clearly I don't fall onto their "desirable" radar screen. Clearly they are not getting desperate. Clearly they are a long way off decorating fencelines.
And there is one more thing I would like to state clearly. I have no intention at all of taking a job with these vermin (and I do not mean any of the staff - pilots, CC, ground staff etc - I mean Joyce and his overpaid bunch of criminals). I just have an app in so as I can be one voice saying "No thank you, your fee of $10,000 for a couple of sim rides for the prurposes of Jetstar procedures training is way way way over the top for someone with Airbus experience. Two sim rides or so should not cost more than $1500 or so. $10,000 is just making money from your employees - not acceptable."
SHOULDHE - your arguments are ridiculous. "should a hospital pay a doctor to go to Uni?" is not a valid analogy. A pilot joining a major airline has done his "doctor's" training at his own expense - just like a doctor. He should now expect to be able to take his trade and be employed to earn a dollar, just like a doctor takes his trade to the hospital for remuneration. Stop trying to justify this sort of behaviour. Remember, airlines are employing pilots because THEY NEED THEM. If you refuse to pay for all this stuff they will still need pilots - only then will the trend reverse.
Rod
I have a JQ app in - I have 9000 total time, couple of thousand on both A330 and A320. Haven't heard a peep from them. Clearly I don't fall onto their "desirable" radar screen. Clearly they are not getting desperate. Clearly they are a long way off decorating fencelines.
And there is one more thing I would like to state clearly. I have no intention at all of taking a job with these vermin (and I do not mean any of the staff - pilots, CC, ground staff etc - I mean Joyce and his overpaid bunch of criminals). I just have an app in so as I can be one voice saying "No thank you, your fee of $10,000 for a couple of sim rides for the prurposes of Jetstar procedures training is way way way over the top for someone with Airbus experience. Two sim rides or so should not cost more than $1500 or so. $10,000 is just making money from your employees - not acceptable."
SHOULDHE - your arguments are ridiculous. "should a hospital pay a doctor to go to Uni?" is not a valid analogy. A pilot joining a major airline has done his "doctor's" training at his own expense - just like a doctor. He should now expect to be able to take his trade and be employed to earn a dollar, just like a doctor takes his trade to the hospital for remuneration. Stop trying to justify this sort of behaviour. Remember, airlines are employing pilots because THEY NEED THEM. If you refuse to pay for all this stuff they will still need pilots - only then will the trend reverse.
Rod
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Despite what you probably think, those in charge of airline recruiting are not idiots
The current low cost model does not have a long term future. Not with a looming labour shortage. Something has to give. If it’s not the company’s attitude towards its employees, then it will be the company itself. It will run out of options when other LCCs with deeper pockets start luring its undervalued workforce. Alan Joyce’s cries for help on TV for a commercially motivated pilot training solution are the first of many signs.
I think recruiting within the whole Qantas group is going to be in for a shock very soon. $15 application fee will be the least of their worries.
Rod, they probably lost your application, or red flagged it for having enough experience to know what your worth.
G'day Erin,
Not sure how one loses an electronic application, so i guess I must be red flagged.
You are right about the attitude of upper management towards its employees. Hopefully the world will turn and we will go back to the days of 1. employer respects and treats employees as a valuable asset, 2. employer feels respected and well treated and morale stays high, 3. high morale rubs off and happy front line staff treat customers well and provide great service 4. Customers love the service provided and come back for more 5. company's load factors go through roof and profits soar 6. Employer smiles as company is doing so well. Tells staff what a great job they are doing 7. start again at point 2.
Yeah I know - tell 'im 'es dreamin'. Now - where did my jousting sticks go!!
Rod
Not sure how one loses an electronic application, so i guess I must be red flagged.
You are right about the attitude of upper management towards its employees. Hopefully the world will turn and we will go back to the days of 1. employer respects and treats employees as a valuable asset, 2. employer feels respected and well treated and morale stays high, 3. high morale rubs off and happy front line staff treat customers well and provide great service 4. Customers love the service provided and come back for more 5. company's load factors go through roof and profits soar 6. Employer smiles as company is doing so well. Tells staff what a great job they are doing 7. start again at point 2.
Yeah I know - tell 'im 'es dreamin'. Now - where did my jousting sticks go!!
Rod
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Eveytime this pay for your rating argument appears here you always get someone chipping in with 'so you think aviation owes you a living?'.. well fair enough it's a democratic world inside pprune.
Aviation may not owe you a living but have todays Fleet Managers, Chief Pilots, Ops Directors ever paid for a rating? One or two perhaps but on the whole I doubt it, protected final salary pensions, share options etc, all very nice.
So why does the new bloke/blokess who has shown dedication, made a substantial investment in their career to get licenced, perhaps done several years in the bush, be treated as yet another profit center and whose job it will be to fly the companies aircraft and the companies pax have to pay for the privilage??.. nothing more than short term greed sadly.
Aviation may not owe anyone a living (what profession does? actualy now I think about it anyone who puts their life at risk for others like firemen, soldiers deserve some free credit) but no pilot deserves to be blatantly abused in such a skilled profession as ours.
Blue Foot
Aviation may not owe you a living but have todays Fleet Managers, Chief Pilots, Ops Directors ever paid for a rating? One or two perhaps but on the whole I doubt it, protected final salary pensions, share options etc, all very nice.
So why does the new bloke/blokess who has shown dedication, made a substantial investment in their career to get licenced, perhaps done several years in the bush, be treated as yet another profit center and whose job it will be to fly the companies aircraft and the companies pax have to pay for the privilage??.. nothing more than short term greed sadly.
Aviation may not owe anyone a living (what profession does? actualy now I think about it anyone who puts their life at risk for others like firemen, soldiers deserve some free credit) but no pilot deserves to be blatantly abused in such a skilled profession as ours.
Blue Foot
Last edited by Blue-Footed Boobie; 29th May 2007 at 19:39.