Diversions to Brisbane
Join Date: Dec 1999
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For a country that relies on tourism as it's second biggest money spinner, I am surprised none of it's major airports have CAT III B provision.
Sad to see nothing has changed since I left 16 years ago.
Sad to see nothing has changed since I left 16 years ago.
Evertonian
Just watched the Virgin A346 fly into Tulla this morning...geez they're bluddy long aren't they? Pretty sure the crew were still onboard as it passed overhead...but don't quote me.
SYD WX...honestly, who'd want to live there?
SYD WX...honestly, who'd want to live there?
Bottums Up
capt.cynical
Perhaps no one's answered because no one knows, because no one was there to see. Fancy getting stroppy because someone can't answer a question that you can't answer yourself.
Perhaps no one's answered because no one knows, because no one was there to see. Fancy getting stroppy because someone can't answer a question that you can't answer yourself.
Capt Cynical - if you seriously believe that UAL may have left a jumbo full of passengers completely unattended, then you have absolutely no idea, and I would politely suggest, no place in this forum.
Why don't you call UAL [(02) 9007 9894] if you are so effing interested.
Why don't you call UAL [(02) 9007 9894] if you are so effing interested.
Speaking to a Brisbane Airport employee yesterday, there were a couple of problems disembarking the pax. One was terminal capacity. However another, unusually, was that pax didn't want to leave their Duty-free grog, perfume, face cream or other expensive liquid or gel onboard but if they took it into the terminal it would be confiscated at security!
After sometime a clever little F/A suggested they all label their stuff, leave it onboard and de-plane when allowed. (The Cabin crew were apparently still onboard then).
I paxed up from Sydney on the same flight as the UA Tech-crew (and 2 Ops people to manage the show) that flew the first aircraft down to Sydney. I believe they then paxed back to Brissy and flew the other jet down to Sydney later in the day.
It was confirmed that the crew that operated into Brissy from the States were not prepared to continue on to Sydney as a mark of appropriate respect for their management!
After sometime a clever little F/A suggested they all label their stuff, leave it onboard and de-plane when allowed. (The Cabin crew were apparently still onboard then).
I paxed up from Sydney on the same flight as the UA Tech-crew (and 2 Ops people to manage the show) that flew the first aircraft down to Sydney. I believe they then paxed back to Brissy and flew the other jet down to Sydney later in the day.
It was confirmed that the crew that operated into Brissy from the States were not prepared to continue on to Sydney as a mark of appropriate respect for their management!
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From the information I have been given, the pax from the SFO flight were put onto QF domestic services to get to SYD - the B744 was subsequently ferried to SYD later that day.
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I'm with Whiskery, once again this highlights the lack of government policy (by both sides) with respect to the contribution of aviation to Australia. With $22.3 billion allocated under the 2007-8 budget for land transport upgrades, they have spoken volumes.
"But the airports are privatised, I hear, and they are reponsible for meeting the requirements of the aviation commmunity". Yes, but trucks can use public roads, whereas aircraft are compelled to use privately owned facilities. Apples and Oranges.
"Other modes of transport are more reliable, particularly to regional areas" If adequate infrastructure was in place (navaids for lower mins, etc), then not only would aviation be more reliable, but wait, it would also be more economical and therefore competitive.
The government is responsible for ensuring that the national infrastructure is so developed to support all members of the transport community, not just those with the greatest Canberra pressure group. Wasn't it the incumbent government whos policy was "Nation Building".
We really seem determined to be a second world country.
"But the airports are privatised, I hear, and they are reponsible for meeting the requirements of the aviation commmunity". Yes, but trucks can use public roads, whereas aircraft are compelled to use privately owned facilities. Apples and Oranges.
"Other modes of transport are more reliable, particularly to regional areas" If adequate infrastructure was in place (navaids for lower mins, etc), then not only would aviation be more reliable, but wait, it would also be more economical and therefore competitive.
The government is responsible for ensuring that the national infrastructure is so developed to support all members of the transport community, not just those with the greatest Canberra pressure group. Wasn't it the incumbent government whos policy was "Nation Building".
We really seem determined to be a second world country.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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New Zealand can handle diversions caused by fog. Maybe we should ask them how to do it.
But for the heavies, if AKL is closed, you go to CHC and v.v.. Ohakea is not an option for anyone except NZ or a genuine emergency. NZCAA got everyone to update their AOC expositions last year to state that we won't use OHA. This stemmed from an incident last year where several airlines that route over Australia failed to stop enroute when they knew CHC and AKL were closed and carried on anyway.
CAT-III is being introduced at NZAA 23L and should be fully up by May next year, although I noticed RVR being reported when it was foggy the other day. That's new!
AKL's CAT-III is well overdue given the lack of alternates available but I suppose in Australia they think there are plenty of options for a heavy and SYD/BNE/MEL are unlikely to be all fogged in at once. Although it could happen, so I'd definitely support a CAT-III of some description for YSSY 16R.
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SG3,
This annual debate has been very well documented over the years each time this happens.
However, note that it's not AsA who are responsible for on airport navaid installation, it's the airport owners.
Have a chat with them.
Oh....and Good Luck!!
G'day
PS a rumour has it that Cat II is being planned for MEL??
This annual debate has been very well documented over the years each time this happens.
However, note that it's not AsA who are responsible for on airport navaid installation, it's the airport owners.
Have a chat with them. Oh....and Good Luck!!
G'day
PS a rumour has it that Cat II is being planned for MEL??
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Actually Feather, I know of several airport owners who are very keen for upgraded Cat II/III systems: esp MEL, SYD and CBR. MEL especially has invested in all the lighting infrastructure needed for Cat II at least (not sure about Cat III)
Look to ASA and CASA for the delays... From what I understand, the latter don't even have full standards written for Cat II/III and are currently urgently looking at getting something done about it!
Also whilst the Flying Ops departments of the major airlines couldn't get it fast enough, try talking to the bean-counter departments of the same airlines. Some have quite categorically stated (in writing) that there is no need for full Cat II/III in Australia (though I believe the view is changing on this!)
Look to ASA and CASA for the delays... From what I understand, the latter don't even have full standards written for Cat II/III and are currently urgently looking at getting something done about it!
Also whilst the Flying Ops departments of the major airlines couldn't get it fast enough, try talking to the bean-counter departments of the same airlines. Some have quite categorically stated (in writing) that there is no need for full Cat II/III in Australia (though I believe the view is changing on this!)
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Won't GBAS/GRAS give better than CAT III approaches when it's fully in? For a sh!t load cheaper than all the gear required for the ILS? i.e. GLS Approaches.
But that's a whole other thread
But that's a whole other thread
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G'day y'all, more of a lurker than poster, but just to clarify...
Airservices Australia install and maintain all navaids, ILS and approach lighting. The airport authorities have nothing to do with them, other than (carefully) mowing around their bases.
The airport provides all other airfield lighting, visual approach systems (Papis etc) and wind indicators.
If an ILS cat III is to be obtained (and it would save a lot of chaos come Fog Season), anyneeds to be done to the Airservices wall, rather than that of the airports'.
Cheers!
Worrals
Airservices Australia install and maintain all navaids, ILS and approach lighting. The airport authorities have nothing to do with them, other than (carefully) mowing around their bases.
The airport provides all other airfield lighting, visual approach systems (Papis etc) and wind indicators.
If an ILS cat III is to be obtained (and it would save a lot of chaos come Fog Season), any
needs to be done to the Airservices wall, rather than that of the airports'. Cheers!
Worrals
Three years ago, my QF flight diverted to Nadi because both destination AKL and CHC were closed due to fog. The crew seemed to indicate that it was that unusual in fog season. But, outside of SCL and EZE, there are almost NO Cat II and Cat III approaches in Southern Hemisphere.
GF
GF
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"Three years ago, my QF flight diverted to Nadi because both destination AKL and CHC were closed due to fog. The crew seemed to indicate that it was that unusual in fog season. But, outside of SCL and EZE, there are almost NO Cat II and Cat III approaches in Southern Hemisphere".
It isn't all that unusual to end up at Nadi when en route US-NZ. Over the years this has happened to me 5 times. Usually it isn't because AKL and CHC both have fog - it is because AKL does and CHC Wx indicates that there might be in 5 hours time. When it happens they get you off the plane reasonably fast, but then you have to wait for a new crew to arrive from somewhere. Compared with the BNE experience though, they don't do a bad job of moving people into hotels.
Ohakea is not limited to NZ, as someone has said in this thread, but when there are a group of diversions there - as happened once last year (7, I think) - the pax are even worse off than those in BNE last week. There is no infrastructural support to get them off the planes at all - and no stocks of food and drink to put aboard.
There have been some close calls over the years. The most famous being the UA flight that landed at WLG when they realised half way to CHC that they didn't have enough fuel for a missed approach at CHC or to get back to anywhere else that could take them.
It isn't all that unusual to end up at Nadi when en route US-NZ. Over the years this has happened to me 5 times. Usually it isn't because AKL and CHC both have fog - it is because AKL does and CHC Wx indicates that there might be in 5 hours time. When it happens they get you off the plane reasonably fast, but then you have to wait for a new crew to arrive from somewhere. Compared with the BNE experience though, they don't do a bad job of moving people into hotels.
Ohakea is not limited to NZ, as someone has said in this thread, but when there are a group of diversions there - as happened once last year (7, I think) - the pax are even worse off than those in BNE last week. There is no infrastructural support to get them off the planes at all - and no stocks of food and drink to put aboard.
There have been some close calls over the years. The most famous being the UA flight that landed at WLG when they realised half way to CHC that they didn't have enough fuel for a missed approach at CHC or to get back to anywhere else that could take them.