Caribou Replacement..
Putting the 'Bou back into production is a fine idea, if...
a) the original production jigs weren't destroyed when production ceased,
b) the production drawings weren't likewise destroyed,
c) the powers that be are prepared to face the politically-incorrect truth that an existing design can actually do the job better than all the whizbang new offerings from manufacturers who have consistently failed to produce a competitive replacement design for decades, and
d) the politicians who end up making the choice (usually against the better judgement of their military advisers) find the intestinal fortitude to actually admit an existing airframe is actually the best for the role and scrape up the necessary to fund a resumption of production, and
e) the original manufacturer has somehow miraculously managed to retain enough interest in building aeroplanes for the military to be interested in resuming production.
All in all, I don't see any resumption of Caribou production...the odds are stacked against it.
But I'd love to be proved wrong.
a) the original production jigs weren't destroyed when production ceased,
b) the production drawings weren't likewise destroyed,
c) the powers that be are prepared to face the politically-incorrect truth that an existing design can actually do the job better than all the whizbang new offerings from manufacturers who have consistently failed to produce a competitive replacement design for decades, and
d) the politicians who end up making the choice (usually against the better judgement of their military advisers) find the intestinal fortitude to actually admit an existing airframe is actually the best for the role and scrape up the necessary to fund a resumption of production, and
e) the original manufacturer has somehow miraculously managed to retain enough interest in building aeroplanes for the military to be interested in resuming production.
All in all, I don't see any resumption of Caribou production...the odds are stacked against it.
But I'd love to be proved wrong.
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Re that rather disturbing photo - details on this page.
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Originally Posted by Taildragger67
The 'bou is the only fixed-wing aircraft I've seen fly backwards - was on STOL approach to the grass cross-strip at Riccy, in a decent northerly blow, about 50' up when a gust came through and pushed it about half-a-length backwards.
Normal programming resumes ......
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Quote:
"and there's is still nothing around like the caribou that can get around Papua New Guinea,good luck finding a replacement"
Heard that the Spartan can get into all but 4 strips in PNG.
"and there's is still nothing around like the caribou that can get around Papua New Guinea,good luck finding a replacement"
Heard that the Spartan can get into all but 4 strips in PNG.
"The 'bou is the only fixed-wing aircraft I've seen fly backwards "
Saw a Proctor do it at Archerfield many years ago. Took off - climbed to about 500', let the wind blow him back down the strip - and landed pretty much where he had started his TO roll from.
I seem to recal that a carton of XXXX exchanged hands afterwards.
Dr
Saw a Proctor do it at Archerfield many years ago. Took off - climbed to about 500', let the wind blow him back down the strip - and landed pretty much where he had started his TO roll from.
I seem to recal that a carton of XXXX exchanged hands afterwards.
Dr
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Heah Tiger 77,
I was at Richmond RAAF base in mid 1969, serving in 38 Squadron, and remember watching the new Buffalo go through some of it's assessment flight and ground testing.
Long time ago....I can hardly believe those Caribous airplanes are still flying, saw some of them delivered via Port Moresby the same year.
Cheers FD
I was at Richmond RAAF base in mid 1969, serving in 38 Squadron, and remember watching the new Buffalo go through some of it's assessment flight and ground testing.
Long time ago....I can hardly believe those Caribous airplanes are still flying, saw some of them delivered via Port Moresby the same year.
Cheers FD
reacher: "Heard that the Spartan can get into all but 4 strips in PNG."
There are over 400 airstrips in PNG. The Spartan must be a dam fine helicopter if it can land at all bar four of them!!!
Is this amongst the four it can't get into - or do you think this is a "goer"??
Of course, the RAAF had a go at a few of them, with the occasional disaterous result!
From the C47/DC3 they landed at "Goroka" in the 1950's - 20 miles short of the destination and a thousand meters too short, to the DHC4 which landed at Eliptimin - intended destination Telefomin (came out under a Chook); the fine effort at Tufi with a DHC4 (pilot now a senior CASA manager); the prang at Garaina and a few others I've since forgotten about.
But the Caribou did a dam fine job in PNG. The only aircraft to replace it would be another Caribou.
There are over 400 airstrips in PNG. The Spartan must be a dam fine helicopter if it can land at all bar four of them!!!
Is this amongst the four it can't get into - or do you think this is a "goer"??
Of course, the RAAF had a go at a few of them, with the occasional disaterous result!
From the C47/DC3 they landed at "Goroka" in the 1950's - 20 miles short of the destination and a thousand meters too short, to the DHC4 which landed at Eliptimin - intended destination Telefomin (came out under a Chook); the fine effort at Tufi with a DHC4 (pilot now a senior CASA manager); the prang at Garaina and a few others I've since forgotten about.
But the Caribou did a dam fine job in PNG. The only aircraft to replace it would be another Caribou.
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I once heard a story about a 38SQN Caribou climbing out of Richmond to the south west, into the teeth of a huge westerly gale - and consequently making good a ridiculously low groundspeed.
Apparently it was quite humiliating being overtaken below by the Friday afternoon traffic heading up the Great Western Highway for the Blue Mountains .....
Urban Myth? Dunno. Good yarn though....
SW
Apparently it was quite humiliating being overtaken below by the Friday afternoon traffic heading up the Great Western Highway for the Blue Mountains .....
Urban Myth? Dunno. Good yarn though....
SW
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Torres: Great photo! Thought about entering it into the caption comp?
Perhaps the guy who told me meant that the Spartan was able to get into to all but 4 strips that the 'Bou was capable of. It was a few years ago and many beers down.
Thread creep: The show it put on at Avalon was great. Barrel role looked strange for a transport to be doing but what really impressed me (Not all that hard) was the wing-over into low speed, dirty pass. That must have been a busy time in the cockpit.
Perhaps the guy who told me meant that the Spartan was able to get into to all but 4 strips that the 'Bou was capable of. It was a few years ago and many beers down.
Thread creep: The show it put on at Avalon was great. Barrel role looked strange for a transport to be doing but what really impressed me (Not all that hard) was the wing-over into low speed, dirty pass. That must have been a busy time in the cockpit.
Swingwing. We operated a Pilatus PC6BH2 Porter in PNG. Had a call from a plantation asking could we send in their supplied and lift out a load of coffee.
"No sweat. I'll send the Porter."
"Can't Mate. I need the supplied today - not next bloody week!"
"No sweat. I'll send the Porter."
"Can't Mate. I need the supplied today - not next bloody week!"
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A very sensible replacement is already mentioned in an Oz doc.
http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-Caribou-Pt.1.pdf
Antonov AN-74.
http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-Caribou-Pt.1.pdf
Antonov AN-74.
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I was sitting on the threshold for 10 at Richmond in... not sure of the year, probably '69 or '70 waiting for Al Field to complete his practice solo for the air show the next day. There was about a 40 knot wind blowing, and he put the 'bou down on the piano keys.. and stopped. I swear the main wheels hardly turned. Great roar from the reversers and the aircraft was at a full stop, still on the white stripes.
The wind wasn't as strong on the day of the airshow, so he couldn't repeat it for the adorimng masses.
I also saw Bob May(?) do the wheels up on 28 at Richmond (in late 68?) with two Malaysian students on board. He put the ramp down and landed on the ramp rim. Aircraft came to a stop very neatly, wing down, with absolutely minimal damage - and the first stud in his orange flying suit was out the back a nanosecond later at the speed of a popping champage cork, followed very closely by the next one.
The wind wasn't as strong on the day of the airshow, so he couldn't repeat it for the adorimng masses.
I also saw Bob May(?) do the wheels up on 28 at Richmond (in late 68?) with two Malaysian students on board. He put the ramp down and landed on the ramp rim. Aircraft came to a stop very neatly, wing down, with absolutely minimal damage - and the first stud in his orange flying suit was out the back a nanosecond later at the speed of a popping champage cork, followed very closely by the next one.
Last edited by Wiley; 16th Apr 2009 at 15:37.
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If it isn’t broke, then don’t fix it! Same for the F-111.Just build new ones with upgraded everything. Sometimes "they" get it right and don't realise it. Of course, that doesn't sell new ones.
Grandpa Aerotart
Gotta agree with Torres...there are 100s of strips in PNG that were Bou free zones.
As to a replacement...why is this such an insurmountable problem?
Nothing else will come close to doing what a Bou will do except a Buffalo...I would bet there are 10 airforces around the world who would kill for the (reconstituted) capability...some company has bought the rights to the Beaver and Twin Otter with the intention of putting them back in production because nothing designed/built since comes close. Why couldn't Australian industry, GAF or whatever it is called now, buy the rights to build the Buffalo and and sell them on the world market too?
If the Govt had the balls they could reconstitute an industry in Australia, create LOTS of jobs and make a profit. You'd sell 100s in places like Africa, Afghanistan etc etc etc.
Instead they'll end up with something that costs more and doesn't do the job close to as well as the Caribou.
You'd think it was brain surgury.
As to a replacement...why is this such an insurmountable problem?
Nothing else will come close to doing what a Bou will do except a Buffalo...I would bet there are 10 airforces around the world who would kill for the (reconstituted) capability...some company has bought the rights to the Beaver and Twin Otter with the intention of putting them back in production because nothing designed/built since comes close. Why couldn't Australian industry, GAF or whatever it is called now, buy the rights to build the Buffalo and and sell them on the world market too?
If the Govt had the balls they could reconstitute an industry in Australia, create LOTS of jobs and make a profit. You'd sell 100s in places like Africa, Afghanistan etc etc etc.
Instead they'll end up with something that costs more and doesn't do the job close to as well as the Caribou.
You'd think it was brain surgury.
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rather disturbing footage here off youtube of a catastrophic ending to a turbine converted caribou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWfi7fBvfEk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWfi7fBvfEk
Potential Caribou Replacement ?
Embraer Launches KC-390 Military Transport Jet Program
Company signs a partnership for the new program with the Brazilian Air Force
(Sao Jose dos Campos, April 14, 2009) -- In a ceremony held, today, during the seventh edition of the Latin America Aero and Defence (LAAD) trade fair, which takes place from April 14 to 17, at Riocentro, in the city of Rio de Janeiro, Embraer signed a contract with the Brazilian Air Force (FAB) for the KC-390 military transport aircraft program. The event was attended by the Minister of Defense, Nelson Jobim, the Head of the Navy, Admiral Julio Soares de Moura Neto, the Brazilian Aeronautics Commander, General Juniti Saito, and
Embraer President & CEO Frederico Fleury Curado.
"The launch of the KC-390 program is a new landmark in the historical strategic partnership between the Brazilian Air Force and Embraer," said Frederico Fleury Curado, Embraer President & CEO. "We are convinced that the development of the KC-390 will result in an effective cargo and tanker aircraft for the FAB and shall also become another successful export platform for both Embraer and Brazil."
The FAB established the requirements for this aircraft, just as has occurred with other successful products manufactured by Embraer, like the Bandeirante, the Tucano, the aerial surveillance and remote sensoring versions of the ERJ 145, which are used in the Amazon Surveillance System (Sistema de Vigilancia da Amazonia - SIVAM), and the Super Tucano.
The new jet will meet the needs of the FAB, in full compliance with the new National Defense Strategy. The participation of other countries in this program will be evaluated, in conjunction with the FAB, and the aircraft is expected to enter service in 2015. The KC-390 Program will contribute, in the short term, to maintaining highly qualified jobs, and, longer-term, it has the potential for generating significant export volumes with important aggregate value.
The existence of a study regarding this military transport aircraft was presented two years ago, at LAAD 2007. The jet will have a cargo bay equipped with an aft ramp, to transport a wide variety of types of cargo, including armored vehicles, and will be outfitted with the most modern systems for handling and launching cargos.
The new jet can be refueled in flight and can be used for in-flight or on-ground refueling of other aircraft. The cargo bay will allow configurations for Medical Evacuation (MEDEVAC) missions. The technical advances of the KC-390 include fly-by-wire technology, which lessens pilot work load by optimizing mission results and increasing safety and the capability for operating on short and rustic runways.
The FAB already operates other transport aircraft manufactured by Embraer, like the EMB 120 Brasilia, the ERJ 145, and the Legacy 600. Besides these, the fleet of military aircraft designed and manufactured in Brazil, like the Tucano, the Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) airplanes operated within the SIVAM, and the Super Tucano, as well as the AMX, which was developed in a partnership with Italian companies. In June 2008, Embraer signed a contract for the sale of two EMBRAER 190 jets to the FAB, which will be configured especially for carrying authorities.
Source : Embraer
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KC390 and flying backwards
Cant imagine the KC390 going into some of the places the old "Bou has been, and besides, the KC390 is designed to have a payload of 19000 Kgs, about the same as a C130 and about 6000Kgs more than the MAUW of the Caribou. Even if the Caribou production was revived it might have to be powered by a turbo-prop like the Buffalo. Don't think there would be too many R2000's around.
Off thread a little, in the early 1960's Wednesday afternoon sporting activity for BFTS instructors was sometimes several Winjeels overhead the field in echelon, flying into a good southerly, competing with each other to see who could go the greatest distance backwards.
Off thread a little, in the early 1960's Wednesday afternoon sporting activity for BFTS instructors was sometimes several Winjeels overhead the field in echelon, flying into a good southerly, competing with each other to see who could go the greatest distance backwards.