Don't touch anything until clear?
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Don't touch anything until clear?
I traveled on Jetstar early this morning and noticed something I thought was different.
After we landed the pilots raised the flaps and cleaned up the wings etc before we exited the runway...
I'm still only a single engine driver, but I thought that it was standard airline ops to not touch a single thing until you are clear of the runway?
After we landed the pilots raised the flaps and cleaned up the wings etc before we exited the runway...
I'm still only a single engine driver, but I thought that it was standard airline ops to not touch a single thing until you are clear of the runway?
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That "standard airline op" is something the Rat does and naturally it's thought to be the only possible way.
Airline SOPs sometimes dictate that the after-landing actions begin when the captain says they do, often signalled by him lowering the speedbrakes; then FO does the rest (eg flaps, lights, etc).
In some airlines, like the Rat, the whole process is to begin when clear of the runway. Doesn't mean other airlines like Jetscar can't carry out after-landing actions at an earlier stage, for example when reaching taxi speed.
Some procedures differ from sirline to airline and there's not much that is "standard airline ops" apart from put the gear down before landing and the FO takes the fat one.
Airline SOPs sometimes dictate that the after-landing actions begin when the captain says they do, often signalled by him lowering the speedbrakes; then FO does the rest (eg flaps, lights, etc).
In some airlines, like the Rat, the whole process is to begin when clear of the runway. Doesn't mean other airlines like Jetscar can't carry out after-landing actions at an earlier stage, for example when reaching taxi speed.
Some procedures differ from sirline to airline and there's not much that is "standard airline ops" apart from put the gear down before landing and the FO takes the fat one.
Nunc est bibendum
I've seen it happen very occasionally in QF but it's certainly the extreme exception rather than the rule- obviously when I've seen it occur it's been the skipper that has done it. Normally all the housekeeping stuff happens after transferring to the ground frequency which means that 99% of the time we're clear (or just about clear) of the runway.
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Runaway:
At the Rat - both!!
In the good old of a REAL airline (ie AN ) - only one!
Now THAT's CRM in action!!
((Of course if the F/o chose the WRONG one the next morning could be a little bit chilly - but at least he had a fighting/challenging/beer buying chance to be a hero!
Statistical chance for an F/o/S/o to be a hero at the Rat - 0.01% (the .01 to allow for any statistical error.))
Regards to all.
And if you doubt me just ask Buster - the TRUE authority on all things AN!
At the Rat - both!!
In the good old of a REAL airline (ie AN ) - only one!
Now THAT's CRM in action!!
((Of course if the F/o chose the WRONG one the next morning could be a little bit chilly - but at least he had a fighting/challenging/beer buying chance to be a hero!
Statistical chance for an F/o/S/o to be a hero at the Rat - 0.01% (the .01 to allow for any statistical error.))
Regards to all.
And if you doubt me just ask Buster - the TRUE authority on all things AN!
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I've seen it happen very occasionally in QF but it's certainly the extreme exception rather than the rule - obviously when I've seen it occur it's been the skipper that has done it.
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2P2drive,
In Jet*,pilot flying ( could be capt or FO ) puts the reversers away and disarms speedbrakes at a safe taxi speed this may or may not be on the runway.
There would be no point in leaving everything out when backtracking a runway at an outport or when taxiing slowly at a major airport to get to the next taxiway, ( fod to flaps etc ) so there is no hard and fast rule.
Disarming s/brakes and selecting flaps to up is done in seconds and is hardly going to cause any drama, unless of course you are still doing mach 1
In Jet*,pilot flying ( could be capt or FO ) puts the reversers away and disarms speedbrakes at a safe taxi speed this may or may not be on the runway.
There would be no point in leaving everything out when backtracking a runway at an outport or when taxiing slowly at a major airport to get to the next taxiway, ( fod to flaps etc ) so there is no hard and fast rule.
Disarming s/brakes and selecting flaps to up is done in seconds and is hardly going to cause any drama, unless of course you are still doing mach 1
It makes sense as a single engine, single pilot driver, lest you confuse the often similarly located Flaps and Gear levers. Get out of the busy zone before cleaning up the aircraft, giving you more time to properly identify the correct lever.
Multi crew ops make it easy - the other pilot cleans up the aircraft!
Multi crew ops make it easy - the other pilot cleans up the aircraft!
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cunninglinguist is correct with regard to A320 op's.
However our airline requires the PF to ask for after landing check list when he wants it done, all of the actions are carried out by the PM so the PF can stay eyes out.
In fact stowing the spoilers is one of the last actions in our checks.
Every airport is different so it may happen on, leaving or off the runway.
However our airline requires the PF to ask for after landing check list when he wants it done, all of the actions are carried out by the PM so the PF can stay eyes out.
In fact stowing the spoilers is one of the last actions in our checks.
Every airport is different so it may happen on, leaving or off the runway.
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Bit of a thread hijack .... sorry
I endured Jetstar on the weekend, too (Sydney - Avalon return) and noticed that the taxiway was out of action at Avalon (lots of post-airshow pavilions etc still erected). We back tracked, and I'm pretty sure the aircraft was cleaned up on the runway - no reason not to I guess.
Anyway, I've noticed that there is a preference for back-tracking rather than using the parallel taxiway in those handful of airports that have them (eg Willy, Avalon). Is this a crew preference? SOPs?
Many ports don't have full length, full strength taxiways (Coffs, Maroochydore, Queenstown) and I can recall a couple of times the aircraft has had to wait for the competitor to land and taxi in, or for them to taxi out and take off. All the while burning fuel and adding to the journey's (time) length.
Would the investment in full strength, full length parallel taxiways pay off in decreased fuel burn, quicker turn arounds?
BTW,
I couldn't agree more .....
Anyway, I've noticed that there is a preference for back-tracking rather than using the parallel taxiway in those handful of airports that have them (eg Willy, Avalon). Is this a crew preference? SOPs?
Many ports don't have full length, full strength taxiways (Coffs, Maroochydore, Queenstown) and I can recall a couple of times the aircraft has had to wait for the competitor to land and taxi in, or for them to taxi out and take off. All the while burning fuel and adding to the journey's (time) length.
Would the investment in full strength, full length parallel taxiways pay off in decreased fuel burn, quicker turn arounds?
BTW,
Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
I can think of at least 1,000,000 better ways to start a day
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Spare a thought, who got the call at 2am this morning!!!!!
Friggin hard stumbling outta bed, getting on the gear and jumping into the truck in under 4mins and on the scene in 10mins of the point of call being made!!!!!!!!!!
give me a break, and thats not a kit kat either!
Friggin hard stumbling outta bed, getting on the gear and jumping into the truck in under 4mins and on the scene in 10mins of the point of call being made!!!!!!!!!!
give me a break, and thats not a kit kat either!
Last edited by Skystar320; 4th Apr 2007 at 03:52. Reason: Wooops
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why dont you fly QF? - or can't you afford the fare?
Ask the people at Hamo, the Gold Coast and Darwin about the "CHOICES" they have - but be prepared to have your head bitten off - they are not happy customers. This explains why many only fly Onestar when they can use QF points (QF then gives onestar cash to reimburse them!), but when using cold hard cash (profit!) they fly with the opposition.
Onestar is a great business strategy for Virgin Blue.
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Condition Lever
Normally I would fly QF (and have the last ? times I've flown Sydney-Melbourne) but this particular time was work-related, for a colleague's funeral, and a few of us were going. Due to the perception of costs, Jetstar it was .....
Not my choice.
Normally I would fly QF (and have the last ? times I've flown Sydney-Melbourne) but this particular time was work-related, for a colleague's funeral, and a few of us were going. Due to the perception of costs, Jetstar it was .....
Not my choice.