RAAF Hercules in Emergency Landing
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Gentlemen; Is there any chance perhaps that you two will agree to disagree and return to the original subject, before the mods lose their patience and lock what was an interesting thread??
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P-A-F...
Does the "P" stand for "Pass" or "Pathetic"?
FFS, Give it a rest!
I've never come across someone who is so dogmatic about thinking that he is always right, and who must always have the last word! So desperate, in fact, that he'll grasp an opportunity to TRY to prove his point almost ONE MONTH after everybody else has moved on!!
An incident occurred, where three people got injured, and you're using it to try to prove a point to me? Do you feel good about yourself?
I wont even bother refuting your latest effort (easy though that is). You're a disgrace!
FFS, Give it a rest!
I've never come across someone who is so dogmatic about thinking that he is always right, and who must always have the last word! So desperate, in fact, that he'll grasp an opportunity to TRY to prove his point almost ONE MONTH after everybody else has moved on!!
An incident occurred, where three people got injured, and you're using it to try to prove a point to me? Do you feel good about yourself?
I wont even bother refuting your latest effort (easy though that is). You're a disgrace!
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I reckon it must mean pathetic..paf give it a rest.Some other countries have had a change of government and the hole in the ozone layer is closing up again since this argument started
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"We all know Herc jerks are fat, balding and much older with that worn-out look in their eyes. And that's just the loadies."
my father was a loady for many many years on the "E's" just before the J came in nd he had a full head of hair and i dont think he was fat. ( i dont think so anyway)
my father was a loady for many many years on the "E's" just before the J came in nd he had a full head of hair and i dont think he was fat. ( i dont think so anyway)
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Yeah, I know, I’m as bad as he is…
When I read the news report yesterday, I knew that this thread would be brought back to the top by P-A-F, who’s still angry at me (for over two months now) for laughing at his mate who made a stupid comment. 
So let’s look put this in perspective. Those of you in Oz may be wondering why there is a sudden increase in reporting of attacks against Australians in Southern Iraq in recent weeks. The Australians moved into Dhi Qar province in around June last year. Up until the 23rd of April this year, the number of attacks against the Australians in Dhi Qar was…
(wait for it)…..
Zero!
That’s right. Nada, zip, nil! Not a single one! Then we had the one on the 23rd of April, one the next day (on the guys recovering the vehicle from the day before), and one yesterday. So now that’s three! That’s why there are suddenly news reports on all this!
Obviously, there ARE other attacks on Coalition and Iraqi forces in Dhi Qar, but they’re still very low in comparison with most of the other provinces. You only have to read the news to hear of Coalition and Iraqi deaths almost every day. Where are most of these? Baghdad, Anbar, Fallujah, etc.
An Nasiriyah and Dhi Qar hardly ever get a mention. (Btw, this is all open source stuff. Do some Googling if you don’t believe me).
And then let us look at these attacks that make Tallil such a DANGEROUS place to be (according to P-A-F). The one in late April was North of Nasiriyah.
Tallil is close to 10 miles to the SOUTH west of Nasiriyah. (Since P-A-F considers Basra “just over the next hill” (200km away), a doubling of distance and a 45 degree difference in direction is probably nothing). Nasiriyah is a town of almost 1 million people, so you can assume that the attack was around 20 km from Tallil. (In fact, the attack was greater than 20km away).
I can say from similar experience that a blast 20 km away wouldn’t have been heard in Tallil, let alone pose any danger to anything there.
So all of this, IMO, STILL makes Tallil one of the safest places to be in Iraq. And yes, I’ll continue to laugh at any w@nker who implies that there is added stress in landing at Tallil because “we’re still in a combat zone”.
Especially when he said that at a time before there were ANY attacks on Aussies in the area!
P-A-F, what makes you more amusing than your mate is your persistence in trying to “prove” me wrong (it’s obviously a problem for you that someone can have a different opinion). The thread was dead for 4 weeks before you posted the April news report; and dead another three weeks before you posted this one. All because you’re trying to try to make a point against someone who laughed at one of your mates!
Let it go mate. Nobody else cares about this except you (and me). I've suggested before that we do this via PM. Save the other readers and the Mods the trouble.
DIVOSH!
So let’s look put this in perspective. Those of you in Oz may be wondering why there is a sudden increase in reporting of attacks against Australians in Southern Iraq in recent weeks. The Australians moved into Dhi Qar province in around June last year. Up until the 23rd of April this year, the number of attacks against the Australians in Dhi Qar was…
(wait for it)…..
Zero!
That’s right. Nada, zip, nil! Not a single one! Then we had the one on the 23rd of April, one the next day (on the guys recovering the vehicle from the day before), and one yesterday. So now that’s three! That’s why there are suddenly news reports on all this!
Obviously, there ARE other attacks on Coalition and Iraqi forces in Dhi Qar, but they’re still very low in comparison with most of the other provinces. You only have to read the news to hear of Coalition and Iraqi deaths almost every day. Where are most of these? Baghdad, Anbar, Fallujah, etc.
An Nasiriyah and Dhi Qar hardly ever get a mention. (Btw, this is all open source stuff. Do some Googling if you don’t believe me).
And then let us look at these attacks that make Tallil such a DANGEROUS place to be (according to P-A-F). The one in late April was North of Nasiriyah.
The western outskits of An Nasiriyah for those who don't know is around 5 miles from the threshold.
I can say from similar experience that a blast 20 km away wouldn’t have been heard in Tallil, let alone pose any danger to anything there.
So all of this, IMO, STILL makes Tallil one of the safest places to be in Iraq. And yes, I’ll continue to laugh at any w@nker who implies that there is added stress in landing at Tallil because “we’re still in a combat zone”.
Especially when he said that at a time before there were ANY attacks on Aussies in the area!
P-A-F, what makes you more amusing than your mate is your persistence in trying to “prove” me wrong (it’s obviously a problem for you that someone can have a different opinion). The thread was dead for 4 weeks before you posted the April news report; and dead another three weeks before you posted this one. All because you’re trying to try to make a point against someone who laughed at one of your mates!
Let it go mate. Nobody else cares about this except you (and me). I've suggested before that we do this via PM. Save the other readers and the Mods the trouble.
DIVOSH!
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The P-A-F vs DIVOSH show
… and we’re back!
So let's start with:
Not quite! I’m saying that in my opinion, the province of Dhi Qar, and the area around Tallil is one of the safest in Iraq.
However, YOU are creating the impression to the general public that it isn’t safe to fly around Tallil due to attacks on ground troops taking place over 20 km away.
The fact that there have been attacks on ground troops is a testament that the local “bad guys” have both the willingness and the means to do so. Why not ask instead why there haven't been attacks on aircraft around Tallil (I can't go into the reasons here - the answer is there in the public domain)
And please don’t put words in my mouth. Just like I never mentioned Basra over a month ago, I’ve made no mention of Richmond, NSW.
I’ve said this at least twice before, but you don’t appear to be listening. So, ONCE AGAIN, I’m NOT basing my opinion from being a pax; I’m basing my opinion on my having lived in Tallil for some months, and being clued up on the local threat environment. I’m still in daily contact with people there, and I keep up to date.
I’ve done more than my fair share, thanks very much, and one of the factors is the likelihood of the event occurring. That factor is affected by "many things" (that again I'd rather not go into here) as well as the history of such events in that area, so whether there have been any similar attacks in the past 12 months is significant.
Okay… AGAIN, please read back to one of my previous posts. It’s not unknown for aircraft to do circuits there. There are no commodores in Tallil, but plenty of SUV’s, quad bikes, bicycles, pedestrians, joggers, etc.
And for your "a" through "g" questions and how they add all this “extra stress”? I don’t know. But I’d have thought that someone who has
would be able to cope with the extra workload. Particularly as I'm assuming you'd do some significant pre-deployment training.
I await your reply. We CAN do this via PM.
DIVOSH!
So let's start with:
You are creating an impression for the general public that operating an aircraft around Tallil is not operating "in a combat zone", and that operating into Tallil is no different to operating into Richmond, New South Wales.
However, YOU are creating the impression to the general public that it isn’t safe to fly around Tallil due to attacks on ground troops taking place over 20 km away.
The fact that there have been attacks on ground troops is a testament that the local “bad guys” have both the willingness and the means to do so. Why not ask instead why there haven't been attacks on aircraft around Tallil (I can't go into the reasons here - the answer is there in the public domain)
And please don’t put words in my mouth. Just like I never mentioned Basra over a month ago, I’ve made no mention of Richmond, NSW.
You were a pax. Was the profile flown exactly the same as flying into Richmond? Probably a bit hard to tell from the cargo compartment I guess.
Well thankfully you don't do the threat assessments for the ADF,
you'd have had the guys flying circuits for fun on weekends and driving around in a Commodore so long as they still within B miles of the circuit area.
And for your "a" through "g" questions and how they add all this “extra stress”? I don’t know. But I’d have thought that someone who has
passed a military pilots course, logged several thousand hours operating C-130's and was upgraded to a captain, undergone significant flying training to become qualified to operate into an area of operations as crew on a military aircraft, and has done so.
I await your reply. We CAN do this via PM.
DIVOSH!
Last edited by Di_Vosh; 16th May 2007 at 19:11.
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PAF
mate isn't richmond just over the hill from east timor?
and it's just another hill or three to Afganhistan.
could be a bit of a problem pal if you are operating in and out of Richmond.with that road right next to the field and the sneaky taliban around just over the hill we better do a threat assesment.
Hempy can we get that newsreader a job with sbs?
mate isn't richmond just over the hill from east timor?
and it's just another hill or three to Afganhistan.
could be a bit of a problem pal if you are operating in and out of Richmond.with that road right next to the field and the sneaky taliban around just over the hill we better do a threat assesment.
Hempy can we get that newsreader a job with sbs?
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PAF v Di_Vosh
I have been watching from a distance, enjoying the stoush between PAF and Di_V!!! I can understand why Di_V thinks that the threat at Tallil did not warrant the "combat zone" comment but I am assuming mate you did not actually have access to the SAFIRE reports. They however make you think. Without giving away too much, Iraq is one of those places where just when you think its all "hunky dory", you find its actually a scary pace to be! (yes...have done my time there). I know both Pox (the captain) and PAF rather well and although Pox is not one to "play down" a situation, he is sensible enough not to embarrass himself amongst his brethren. Thus, would not make such a comment if he did not believe it. PAF is just saying what he believes also, based on real Intel. (now if it was PAF on the aircraft he probably would be sucking in the fumes as he LOVES a durry or ten!....please don't tell me you have given them up!!!). Without meaning to drag this argument out too much, just because a place may look safe on external appearances, or even recent OBVIOUS activity, doesn't mean it is..as demonstrated perfectly every day in Iraq. Spend enough time there and you will come away, thinking "that was close".
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G'day Bushy,
I'm having a ball!
I'm able to have a mature debate about a difference of opinion.
My opponent has to resort to ridicule and abuse!
N_B_B
Thanks for your input. You're correct in assuming that I did NOT read the SAFIRE reports. I'm pretty sure I said that a few pages ago, but no matter.
I do, however, get over 20Mb of all kinds of "stuff" (need I say more on this?) in my inbox EVERY day. Nothing of what I’ve read has changed my opinion to date re: Tallil.
I know about the fluid nature of Iraq. One of our subjects is on that very topic, with some tragic case studies included.
I "kind of disagree" with your last comment. But only because one persons "That was close!" is anothers "Did something just happen?". I'm NOT saying that you didn't have a "close one", btw, but you should know what I mean.
Anyway, I’m happy to discuss this further, but I’d rather not do it in the public part of this thread, or at all over email. So PM me if you like, as I really think that this thread is done (and I know Hempy and ScottyDoo agree! )
Cheers,
DIVOSH!
I'm having a ball!
I'm able to have a mature debate about a difference of opinion.
My opponent has to resort to ridicule and abuse!
N_B_B
Thanks for your input. You're correct in assuming that I did NOT read the SAFIRE reports. I'm pretty sure I said that a few pages ago, but no matter.
I do, however, get over 20Mb of all kinds of "stuff" (need I say more on this?) in my inbox EVERY day. Nothing of what I’ve read has changed my opinion to date re: Tallil.
I know about the fluid nature of Iraq. One of our subjects is on that very topic, with some tragic case studies included.
I "kind of disagree" with your last comment. But only because one persons "That was close!" is anothers "Did something just happen?". I'm NOT saying that you didn't have a "close one", btw, but you should know what I mean.
Anyway, I’m happy to discuss this further, but I’d rather not do it in the public part of this thread, or at all over email. So PM me if you like, as I really think that this thread is done (and I know Hempy and ScottyDoo agree!
)Cheers,
DIVOSH!
Last edited by Di_Vosh; 19th May 2007 at 20:05.
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Like I said...
P-A-F, in your last two posts, you've added nothing to the topic except ridicule and abuse; not just to me, but others as well, one of whom posted almost a month ago.
YOU don't know what is in the "stuff" that I get every day. YOU also KNOW that I can't say what I get (here on Prune), so why attack that point?
You point out ONE comment that I made about SOMEONE ELSE as your defence to your own continuing diatribe against me! (Play the ball, and not the man).
As to "what's left to discuss"? Well, YOU obviously think there is, otherwise YOU wouldn't be striving for the last word in this thread!
DIVOSH!
P.S. No need for the link, thanks. I did the ADF Pilot selection at Tamworth a couple of years ago. I'm happy to make my own career choices.
YOU don't know what is in the "stuff" that I get every day. YOU also KNOW that I can't say what I get (here on Prune), so why attack that point?
You point out ONE comment that I made about SOMEONE ELSE as your defence to your own continuing diatribe against me! (Play the ball, and not the man).
As to "what's left to discuss"? Well, YOU obviously think there is, otherwise YOU wouldn't be striving for the last word in this thread!
DIVOSH!
P.S. No need for the link, thanks. I did the ADF Pilot selection at Tamworth a couple of years ago. I'm happy to make my own career choices.
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Obitury for this thread
Started life as a lively young thing with a wonderful future to look forward to. Actually went through some interesting times and then just got old, bitter and personal...
