Do they ever speak the truth?
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Do they ever speak the truth?
I am just going through the Qantas statement on the half-yearly results and even though I'm only on page 2, my blood is boiling at the inaccuracies of Dixon's comments. He has said that Qantas ‘successfully launched Jetstar international operations in November 2006, which had added six new destinations to the Qantas Group network and created 500 new jobs’.
Ponder this.....
1. Jetstar commenced international flying when they started to serve Christchurch over 12 months ago.
2. Jetstar did NOT add 6 new destinations to the group. They started flying to Denpasar. Bangkok, Phuket, Ho Chi Minh City, Honolulu and Singapore. Of these, four are existing Qantas mainline destinations, one was served by Qantas on a code-share basis with Vietnam Airlines while Phuket is genuinely a new port.
3. While 500 new were created, is this a net figure and take into account the job losses at mainline as a consequence of its reduced flying? And what about the largely idle groups of some crew categories as a result?
If Qantas can’t get some of the basics right, how can we trust them to get the serious issues correct? And why doesn’t the media pick up on some of this stuff? Are they all in Qantas’s pocket a la Alan Jones and other cash-for-comment shock jocks? And what happened to Jetstar Asia?
Ponder this.....
1. Jetstar commenced international flying when they started to serve Christchurch over 12 months ago.
2. Jetstar did NOT add 6 new destinations to the group. They started flying to Denpasar. Bangkok, Phuket, Ho Chi Minh City, Honolulu and Singapore. Of these, four are existing Qantas mainline destinations, one was served by Qantas on a code-share basis with Vietnam Airlines while Phuket is genuinely a new port.
3. While 500 new were created, is this a net figure and take into account the job losses at mainline as a consequence of its reduced flying? And what about the largely idle groups of some crew categories as a result?
If Qantas can’t get some of the basics right, how can we trust them to get the serious issues correct? And why doesn’t the media pick up on some of this stuff? Are they all in Qantas’s pocket a la Alan Jones and other cash-for-comment shock jocks? And what happened to Jetstar Asia?
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I travelled from West - East last week on Qantas mainline...
I like to see the boys up the front, when I can... when the door is open. The captain was a really nice guy - 59 years old and an age of experience you could not fathom.
I said... (in my enthusiastic ways!).. "Mate! Do you still love flying as much as you did 40 years ago"......
I got an answer which, in a way broke my heart - "oh.... well......... [big sigh]......... we're getting sold soon"
I felt really terrible?
I like to see the boys up the front, when I can... when the door is open. The captain was a really nice guy - 59 years old and an age of experience you could not fathom.
I said... (in my enthusiastic ways!).. "Mate! Do you still love flying as much as you did 40 years ago"......
I got an answer which, in a way broke my heart - "oh.... well......... [big sigh]......... we're getting sold soon"
I felt really terrible?
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B A,
Spin. Just like you get from your Association. The media won't pick up on it for the same reason no hard questions are being asked of those whom you pay to represent you. It would go against currently held opinion and that would never do.
People only want spin. They don't want dilemmas...they just want spin.
2P2D
Why? He wants to feel sorry for himself. Let him. He's probably retiring next year on a motza poor fellow.
If Qantas can’t get some of the basics right, how can we trust them to get the serious issues correct? And why doesn’t the media pick up on some of this stuff?
People only want spin. They don't want dilemmas...they just want spin.
2P2D
I felt really terrible?
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QF has flown to Ho Chi Minh in it's own right before, perhaps 5+ years ago. I also seem to think that Australian Airlines had summer charter flights to Phuket over summer, I could be wrong about this though.
So effectively there are no new ports or routes by Jetstar that haven't been flown by QF before. About the only totally new route is MEL-HNL, which the QF3 used to start in MEL and went MEL-SYD-HNL on the same aircraft and flight number.
So effectively there are no new ports or routes by Jetstar that haven't been flown by QF before. About the only totally new route is MEL-HNL, which the QF3 used to start in MEL and went MEL-SYD-HNL on the same aircraft and flight number.
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Rammel,
You are not wrong about the AO Phuket charter flights. Australian Airlines did quite a few summer charter flights out of SYD. So strickly speaking, no new ports created due to JQI's inception. QF management, nothing more than a bunch of words twisting liars.
You are not wrong about the AO Phuket charter flights. Australian Airlines did quite a few summer charter flights out of SYD. So strickly speaking, no new ports created due to JQI's inception. QF management, nothing more than a bunch of words twisting liars.
Well surely if there is incorrect information in a PUBLIC companies annual report you should write to their board and sent a copy to ASIC and the ASX. That would send the rabbits running.
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Not only should we be skeptical about the corporate pillars of our society but we should also be asking as to why no aviation journalist picked this out as well.
At times journalistic integrity seems to be a contradiction in terms or at best selective.
At times journalistic integrity seems to be a contradiction in terms or at best selective.
Spin...
Lucius,
You may be quite correct, but spin has its relativities.
Which spin has greater veracity? The association's 'spin' which seeks to debunk certain disingenuous misinformation (which is intended to discredit current employees and create industrially useful uncertainty about job security) in an attempt to preserve employment conditions, or management 'spin' which stands to reap many tens of millions of dollars for a select few if allowed to remain uncontested.
QF 'spin', in a twisted way, is actually discouraging employee participation in finding solutions because management flatly refuse to give any assurances that, even if employees can assist in finding a better way and converge with competitors' costs, jobs will not be slashed/off-shored/played-off anyway. The people I work with are adamant that, until assurances are part of any new deal, they're better off sticking with the guarantees that the 'old' EBA contains & which can't be cancelled. To enter any new deal and risk its cancellation 90 days after its expiry (workchoices) is viewed with GREAT suspicion.
People want to help but are, in SO many ways, being excluded from sensible contribution while the company soaks costs to prove industrial points.
You may be quite correct, but spin has its relativities.
Which spin has greater veracity? The association's 'spin' which seeks to debunk certain disingenuous misinformation (which is intended to discredit current employees and create industrially useful uncertainty about job security) in an attempt to preserve employment conditions, or management 'spin' which stands to reap many tens of millions of dollars for a select few if allowed to remain uncontested.
QF 'spin', in a twisted way, is actually discouraging employee participation in finding solutions because management flatly refuse to give any assurances that, even if employees can assist in finding a better way and converge with competitors' costs, jobs will not be slashed/off-shored/played-off anyway. The people I work with are adamant that, until assurances are part of any new deal, they're better off sticking with the guarantees that the 'old' EBA contains & which can't be cancelled. To enter any new deal and risk its cancellation 90 days after its expiry (workchoices) is viewed with GREAT suspicion.
People want to help but are, in SO many ways, being excluded from sensible contribution while the company soaks costs to prove industrial points.
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What about you Lucius.
I bet you'll take your massive Super and shoot thru too when it all get's too hard at the 'Roo.
Would you rather we go back to that mob of Neville Chamberlains that were running the show previously,was their spin more to your liking?
I bet you'll take your massive Super and shoot thru too when it all get's too hard at the 'Roo.
Would you rather we go back to that mob of Neville Chamberlains that were running the show previously,was their spin more to your liking?
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More spin?
Ahh, the usual suspects. Quite a reaction from what seemed to be just a gentle prod.
Jetsbest,
Are they now? Why would they give assurances other than death and taxes? What assurances do you need? They are running a business are they not? Why should they give assurances?
Who is doing that? I have not seen anything from the company about job security but I've seen lots from the other direction. Talk about a storm in a teacup. Who says there is any problem with job security...not Qantas. If I were you I would be more concerned with the advent of Tiger...puts the squeeze on QF domestic wouldn't you say? Would it be worse or better if Jetstar didn't exist?
Max,
Now I know you're a mate of the current President but really
You know and I know the problem with the previous lot was there was NO SPIN. They weren't able to unspin the other political groups spin. They lost the political battle but at least they did not take easy options such as leaking to the papers or firing people and hiring mates, suing everyone and blaming everyone for their ineptitude. Just quietly did their job. Now the current lot go on about NEW AIPA. How many successes have they? You know, scalps on the belt.
They must have lots they talk so big.
Jetsbest,
QF spin....is actually discouraging employee participation in finding solutions because management flatly refuse to give any assurances
create industrially useful uncertainty about job security
Max,
Now I know you're a mate of the current President but really
Would you rather we go back to that mob of Neville Chamberlains that were running the show previously,was their spin more to your liking?
They must have lots they talk so big.
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We shall see Lucius, we shall indeed see.
I wonder what flavour will that humble pie be ?
As for the previous mob not kissing the Blarney, yeh right !
Wasn't there a mate of yours who was a past president who awarded
a union computer contract to his brother? Somehow I don't think the REIA hand out Computer science degrees.
Then there was another past president who had a very dear, lets say friend who got a very important industrial job, gee whiz we were so lucky to find them weren't we!
Come on Lucius people in glass houses and all that.
At least we know for certain that this president won't jump ship and sell his soul to management don't we!
I wonder what flavour will that humble pie be ?
As for the previous mob not kissing the Blarney, yeh right !
Wasn't there a mate of yours who was a past president who awarded
a union computer contract to his brother? Somehow I don't think the REIA hand out Computer science degrees.
Then there was another past president who had a very dear, lets say friend who got a very important industrial job, gee whiz we were so lucky to find them weren't we!
Come on Lucius people in glass houses and all that.
At least we know for certain that this president won't jump ship and sell his soul to management don't we!
Last edited by max autobrakes; 9th Feb 2007 at 07:11.
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I find it more than a little ironic that Lucius harps on about "spin" from the Association whilst saying little about "spin" from the Company - the best and most prolific spin doctors (actually I have another word for it which I won't mention, but they say it makes your nose grow longer) by many orders of magnitude.
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More usual suspects!
Max,
Jake is correct. The current lot better not give up their day jobs. As to selling souls would you expect someone to go to management and then not be a manager? Get real.
Dutchy, yes it is ironic that the current lot are led by the spinmeister of spinmeisters. Guess who held the record for self promotion on Qrewreum prior to assuming office and going suddenly silent?
Yes, the company spins stuff, but we aren't too bad either.
Max,
At least we know for certain that this president won't jump ship and sell his soul to management don't we!
Dutchy, yes it is ironic that the current lot are led by the spinmeister of spinmeisters. Guess who held the record for self promotion on Qrewreum prior to assuming office and going suddenly silent?
Yes, the company spins stuff, but we aren't too bad either.
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quote from B A Lert
And why doesn’t the media pick up on some of this stuff? Are they all in Qantas’s pocket a la Alan Jones and other cash-for-comment shock jocks? And what happened to Jetstar Asia?
unqote
How much does QF spend on advertising?
Last year Media Watch on ABC TV told a story of one newspaper printing "facts" about ANZ Bank having call centres in India. ANZ denied them several times but the newspaper kept repeating these "facts".
ANZ withdrew their advertising from the chain of newspapers (worth in the region of $4m). Said newspaper soon printed an apology!
And why doesn’t the media pick up on some of this stuff? Are they all in Qantas’s pocket a la Alan Jones and other cash-for-comment shock jocks? And what happened to Jetstar Asia?
unqote
How much does QF spend on advertising?
Last year Media Watch on ABC TV told a story of one newspaper printing "facts" about ANZ Bank having call centres in India. ANZ denied them several times but the newspaper kept repeating these "facts".
ANZ withdrew their advertising from the chain of newspapers (worth in the region of $4m). Said newspaper soon printed an apology!
Lucius
I would like nothing more than for you to be right, believe me!
But that's the nature of opinion in general isn't it. My opinions are, no doubt, derived from many of the same sources as yours but evidently your experience leads to different conclusions. However, to deny QF's implied threats to job (and I should have added income and/or promotional) prospects that some genuinely feel is an interesting take on things... You must be one of the pilots who Mr Gregg said earns $400K for 700 hours work per year because no one I know makes anything like that. So when do you plan to lead by example in adopting Jetstar pay and conditions for all QF pilots, because evidently that is the 'convergence' QF needs if we're to be included in the record growth and profitability which must be nothing to do with staff efforts to date?
You ask "why should they give assurances?"... Where do I start? It's all been said before so it won't do to rehash that I guess. I note though that some in QF have ensured their exponentially-growing slice of the pie while others are expected to compromise. Yep, we're all in this together.
I remain hopeful that your'e right and I'm wrong....
But that's the nature of opinion in general isn't it. My opinions are, no doubt, derived from many of the same sources as yours but evidently your experience leads to different conclusions. However, to deny QF's implied threats to job (and I should have added income and/or promotional) prospects that some genuinely feel is an interesting take on things... You must be one of the pilots who Mr Gregg said earns $400K for 700 hours work per year because no one I know makes anything like that. So when do you plan to lead by example in adopting Jetstar pay and conditions for all QF pilots, because evidently that is the 'convergence' QF needs if we're to be included in the record growth and profitability which must be nothing to do with staff efforts to date?
You ask "why should they give assurances?"... Where do I start? It's all been said before so it won't do to rehash that I guess. I note though that some in QF have ensured their exponentially-growing slice of the pie while others are expected to compromise. Yep, we're all in this together.
I remain hopeful that your'e right and I'm wrong....
Last edited by Jetsbest; 11th Feb 2007 at 03:10.
