How many pilots have left the big Q?

[Bazzamundi]

You don't get to hear too much in the dark side (longhaul) about short haul matters sometimes, but mention has been made that a significant number of 737 F/O's are quitting to leave for greener pastures. Also heard a few 767 F/O's have gone, as well as quite a few S/O's up in Honkers for Cathay interviews of late. 76 Captains flying as F/O's and S/O's, CIS messages begging for S/O's on the 400 to give back their leave. And all training slots for S/O's to be upgraded to F/O were recently cancelled for the rest of the training year?

Are the rumours true? Hopefully a crewing shortage coming soon so when asked to help out I can kick them back in the short and curlies. Serves them right if it is happening.

Most of all, given current practices, they will not be putting anyone extra on, just relying on crisis management to get planes airborne. Time for us all to do our bit to help out me thinks.

Thanks but no thanks.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

A few have left with rumours of a lot more with feelers elsewhere. I personally know of three 737 CAPTAINS who are busily getting their JAA licences.

The CP apparently mentioned to someone recently that if 20 captains left Qantas then the point would be made.

GD doesn't seem to realise a couple of things:

Losing a LH FO, with a command endorsement, is the same as losing a cruise captain in any other airline.

He also seems to be expecting to crew the massive expansion of J* Int with pilots either opting out of mainline for a command, or being forced out by redundancy and taking a job with J*... I have news for him, a few may do it but most will seek to take advantage of the opportunities now being offered elsewhere at 3 times the pay Jetstar can come up with.

Soon QF may be having trouble crewing mainline flights... if even half the rumoured numbers are true.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke.

[Keg]

Lots of numbers doing the rounds. Two per week was one of them. I know of three who have gone back to the RAAF and have spoken to another two that are just waiting for the right time in the next few months. I know of three S/Os who have had a request for LWOP knocked back (all on the 744)....one of them quit on the spot!

Is this really a sign of a healthy company?

I remember the shortages of crew on the 767 in 00/01 and it wasn't pretty. I'm not looking forward to that again when it bites- and it will bite.

[Shot Nancy]

Almost impossible to go down the JAR route if you do not have EU right of abode.
Well when it bites comply with your contract.
Take your contractual leave, dont give it back.
Take min op, not a drop more and then if you have to divert, so be it. It cuts both ways.
CP on over $1,000,000 will have to earn every cent when flights are cancelled.

[Aussie]

They havent been recruiting for a while, perhaps they better get it into gear!

[Crusty Demon]

In the climate of cost cutting that exists within the company, they will not recruit until they have had to cancel flights, and have already lost lots of dough. They will never spend money in a proactive manner on staff.

Funny thing is that with all the garbage that comes out of Bullsh!t castle (QCC) from management, even the old time senior company men are becoming very distrusting and the lure of continuing to fly beyond 60 is being balanced against protection of their super come July before the government or new owners have a change in heart. There may be a few more retirements in July than was previously expected. Funny how these previous 'the sun shines out of Qantas' backside' people are now also very negative.

I also heard a 400 Captain left for Emirates a month or two back, not sure if this is true or not. Most S/O's are thinking long and hard now, but just waiting to see what unfolds over the next few months.

As crewing gets tight on some types, cost cutting prevents training of surplus crews from other aircraft and the carnage begins. In the last two months I have not answered any calls on my phone with a private number given the Christmas crap that went on. People would be willing to help out usually, but this year they have displayed utter contempt for us so they can go and get stuffed.

Glad I have sick leave up my sleeve. Stress and overwork may cause it to be required this year. At least before I get forced to Jetstar (reality go overseas or quit aviation completely) when it becomes worth nothing.

Once a great company, now just a roadblock in an aviation career.

[Veruka Salt]

6 - 8 per month.

[Gnadenburg]

Pilots are generally poor investors due lack of due diligence and ego-orientated positivity. Where are these guys going? Interested if they did their 'professional due diligence'.

In terms of market forces, when QF pilots start leaving for the likes of Emirates or Cathay, you have the dog chewing it's own tail scenario.

Good luck to 'em.

[-438]

You know it's bad when even Qantas Cadets are not taking their slots in the big Q.
Rumour has it some of the placed cadets in Jetstar Asia are staying there to get their command and rejecting the mothership.

[CaptCloudbuster]

I can confirm 1 Capt in AO wetlease who has only to now accept formally his job offer from JAL of a commuting contract. He was refused leave of absence by QF and sees no future in permanent rotating and the constant slide in mainline conditions.

[freddyKrueger]

Superannuation

Perhaps those 55+ with their life savings in a defined benefits super scheme may be starting to get nervous. My understanding is it is the employers choice to be able to leave a defined benefit scheme, please correct me if I am wrong.
Why not go an take a contract elsewhere, with your super tucked up safe in a rollover account?
I'm sure those financial engineers over at maquarie can find a way to shaft employees of what is really a large IOU. The Ansett administrators did.
Dixon seems to lament the fact we don't have any chapter 11 style laws here so that businesses can simply walk away from previous obligations.

Never stand between maquarie bank and even a small pile of money.

[neville_nobody]

I always find it interesting that investor reports and the like always go on about how well QF are managed and that this is a strength of the company. People outside of QF think that GD and the crew are a first class management team and know what they are doing. I am wondering how long it will be until the bubble bursts and things really start falling apart. For a airline like QF to be losing crews is an absolute disgrace from a managers perspective. Up until recently they had most pilots in Australian trying to get a job with them and to now have people going overseas instead is really saying something. QF have some of the cheapest and FREE pilots in the world (remember that Singapore, all Chinese, Cathay Cadets, Emirates Cadets etc etc PAY for the ENTIRE cost of pilot's licenses, whereas pilots come to QF ready to go for zero cost, including the interviewing process)

Or is this just the idea...... offload all the QF crews then replace them with wetleased J* crews?

[Bazzamundi]

Since my first post I have found for certain there was a 400 Captain who knocked back Emirates in a hard decision a couple of months ago. His rationale was that at 55 protect the Super, and more importantly take a DEC on the 777 where you get to fly more than the old London or LA stuff. Five years of adventure before you retire sort of thing. He believed the overall net package factoring in housing, tax rates, renting out his house etc. meant not a huge difference in pay. Wonder what the thinking is now they have increased the pay? Maybe I will kick the kids out of home and go and have some fun as 55 comes closer. Certainly not to be ruled out at the least. Would not have thought that way a couple of years ago.

A loss of a 400 Captain results in about 3 command courses, 3 F/O courses and another S/O course potentially to the company so overall the company will lose big time. If this starts to happen, potentially the money will add up.

Certainly food for thought for those of us more junior not able to see any increasing seniority as the super senior hang around past 60 clogging the Pacific.

This year should be an interesting one. Wonder what the bonus will be for management? Don't they believe that a moderate staff turnover is a sign of a healthy company? With that rationale I suppose they will all get another 33% increase in pay and bonus. Makes sense really.

[Keg]

Originally Posted by Bazzamundi

...as the super senior hang around past 60 clogging the Pacific.

Rumours suggest that many may well take the (tax free) money and run post 1 Jul. 80% and possibly higher! The list shows about 100 crew who are due to hit 60 before 1 Jul 08.

[TineeTim]

In terms of market forces, when QF pilots start leaving for the likes of Emirates or Cathay, you have the dog chewing it's own tail scenario.

Really? Both offer more/similar $$$ as QF. Both offer better prospects than QF WRT promotion. One offers DEFO positions based in OZ. Both are making money. Both have large A/C orders. Neither is agressively competing with itself by starting LCCs. I could go on but you get the picture.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. A LOT of s/h F/Os are looking. Some are serious, others are just looking. The saddest thing is that none ever thought they would leave QF. The even sadder thing is that NONE would leave if it wasn't for the 'Dixon Plan'.

[ratpoison]

Yes gentlemen, and one has to ask why 43 drivers mostly Capt's have left Emirates in the last 15 months. Those thinking of it, think REAL BLOODY HARD.

[Bazzamundi]

Bet they don't leave Emirates to join Qantas.

[Crusty Demon]

Anyone know if the 737 F/O's who have been farmed out to Europe have gotten commands at all? Heard various stories about this.

If they do, I wonder how many will choose to come back?

[DUXNUTZ]

Can't believe what i'm reading

As someone who has held the big Q (still do i guess) as a career goal since a young boy i cannot believe what i'm reading.

Its self evident that dixon et al form at best an agressive and hostile management but can it be that bad? I thought those of you on LH were largely protected and it was only us 'with aspirations' that are effectively only offered a "B" scale with the J-Star.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Ratpoison, I think most QF guys are aware of the pro's and cons of EK.

That is why most of the interest is coming from F/O's and S/O's. These are the guys who are seeing their QF career and commands going down the drain and are now faced with a choice.

1. Accept a J* Command and leave QF... because that is what the MOU states they must do.

2. Get a quick command at another airline, get those precious heavy-jet command hours and become a very saleable item. or,

3. Stay in QF in their current rank for an indefinite time.

Options 1 and 2 are the same thing in essence, but Option 2 will be more lucrative. It will also have the advantage of giving GD the finger. Some will go for Option 3.

I reiterate, if GD thinks he is going to crew J* from the ranks of highly experienced QF FO's, in the current market for pilots, I think he will be in for a rude shock.