VB's Embraer Poor Cousins
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Location: Pittsburgh, USA
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And now..back on thread.
The Embraer Jets are a great idea for VB, because a lower cost "route-development" aircraft is always a good idea for a carrier that's trying to increase market share.
If the route grows, it can be taken over by a 737, if it grows slowly, then peak hour loads can be flown by 737s and the Embraer used elsewhere. The big advantage is to be able to increase frequency between city pairs that don't have high non-peak time loads.
When Ozjet got started I was concerned about the viability due to schedule frequency, reliability, and availability of destinations throughout their network.
Virgin Blue will really be a major player now as it takes up routes that would have been considered unlikely with a Boeing. Within the Australian psyche, it will appeal to rural types who now don't feel left behind as well as business travelers who no longer feel restricted to only fly between major city centres.
The product will be new, relatively quiet, clean and have the safety advancements of the latest technology.
I hope that you guys can work out a living wage and that you don't get talked back into another pay-for-training contract.
The Embraer Jets are a great idea for VB, because a lower cost "route-development" aircraft is always a good idea for a carrier that's trying to increase market share.
If the route grows, it can be taken over by a 737, if it grows slowly, then peak hour loads can be flown by 737s and the Embraer used elsewhere. The big advantage is to be able to increase frequency between city pairs that don't have high non-peak time loads.
When Ozjet got started I was concerned about the viability due to schedule frequency, reliability, and availability of destinations throughout their network.
Virgin Blue will really be a major player now as it takes up routes that would have been considered unlikely with a Boeing. Within the Australian psyche, it will appeal to rural types who now don't feel left behind as well as business travelers who no longer feel restricted to only fly between major city centres.
The product will be new, relatively quiet, clean and have the safety advancements of the latest technology.
I hope that you guys can work out a living wage and that you don't get talked back into another pay-for-training contract.
Join Date: Jul 1998
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What about ...
Relating the remuneration for a task to the potential loss should one make a mess of it?
Just how much is it worth to any company to keep the aeroplanes airborne and out of the dirt? Think hull loss and replacement cost, the demise of the airline, the loss of many jobs, compensation for hundreds of lives lost etc
This would of course relate remuneration to potential loss if a mistake is made.
A good question for any CEO/Beancounter:
"What do you think your pilots are worth when you are sitting down the back and #$%^ happens?"
Just how much is it worth to any company to keep the aeroplanes airborne and out of the dirt? Think hull loss and replacement cost, the demise of the airline, the loss of many jobs, compensation for hundreds of lives lost etc
This would of course relate remuneration to potential loss if a mistake is made.
A good question for any CEO/Beancounter:
"What do you think your pilots are worth when you are sitting down the back and #$%^ happens?"
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Zapper,
Sadly there have been attempts to recreate analysis with pay level and safety for some time and none of those arguments hold water. USAir was the highest paid pilot group at a time when they experienced five crashes in five years. It has much more to do with screening at interview, training standards, company safety culture and experience on type.
We did very well on our last contract and I'm proud of the new found profitability of our company for working together to achieve what hopes to be a great future, but statistically we are just as safe an operation as before.
The problem with pay for training operators is that there is the temptation on the part of the recruiter to overlook fundamental flaws in the history of an applicant just to fill a slot. In the true spirit of competition only those with the highest experience levels, the highest levels of education and the best history of operating an aircraft should be allowed the chance.
Pay for training does have a statistical correlation as was shown at Pinnacle Airlines, Northwest Airlink and Atlantic Coast Airlines all who attracted low time pilots who left much to be desired in post accident analysis.
Sadly there have been attempts to recreate analysis with pay level and safety for some time and none of those arguments hold water. USAir was the highest paid pilot group at a time when they experienced five crashes in five years. It has much more to do with screening at interview, training standards, company safety culture and experience on type.
We did very well on our last contract and I'm proud of the new found profitability of our company for working together to achieve what hopes to be a great future, but statistically we are just as safe an operation as before.
The problem with pay for training operators is that there is the temptation on the part of the recruiter to overlook fundamental flaws in the history of an applicant just to fill a slot. In the true spirit of competition only those with the highest experience levels, the highest levels of education and the best history of operating an aircraft should be allowed the chance.
Pay for training does have a statistical correlation as was shown at Pinnacle Airlines, Northwest Airlink and Atlantic Coast Airlines all who attracted low time pilots who left much to be desired in post accident analysis.
Last edited by Chris Higgins; 9th Jan 2007 at 23:27.
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Contract Con,
We know that there are significant costs involved in introducing a new aircraft type and something to consider might be a "snap-back" clause, where you agree with a slightly reduced overhead for a particular calendar period then it snaps back to a higher agreed upon salary. I'm not in favour of poor industrial relations or a protracted dispute being carried out in the media. A collective bargaining agreement of sorts..where people actually agree about affordability and costs, together with projected revenues, should work for everyone.
We know that there are significant costs involved in introducing a new aircraft type and something to consider might be a "snap-back" clause, where you agree with a slightly reduced overhead for a particular calendar period then it snaps back to a higher agreed upon salary. I'm not in favour of poor industrial relations or a protracted dispute being carried out in the media. A collective bargaining agreement of sorts..where people actually agree about affordability and costs, together with projected revenues, should work for everyone.
Been done before hasn't it Chris?
89ers and friends, lured back to Australia to establish Virgin Blue, were promised significantly improved conditions of service once things up and running.
Not everyone got the tens of millions of some!
No greater treachery, than Australians in aviation.
