Pilots to fight for Qantas
I am amazed that in the space of ~36 hours AIPA has back flipped from being the only union to hear out the LBO partners, much less support them, to trying to throw their weight around to the point where they can honestly expect to influence the rest of the shareholders.
As much as I hate to admit it, statements such as those from the AIPA president as of today leave a sour taste in the mouths of many; Sure, taking an equity stake in the company is one thing, but to attempt to take on LBO partners in the early days of the bid is another... not to mention that virtually every QF pilot now has to try to explain what the whole "$50K in shares"plan amounts to without ever having been briefed on the situation...
As much as I hate to admit it, statements such as those from the AIPA president as of today leave a sour taste in the mouths of many; Sure, taking an equity stake in the company is one thing, but to attempt to take on LBO partners in the early days of the bid is another... not to mention that virtually every QF pilot now has to try to explain what the whole "$50K in shares"plan amounts to without ever having been briefed on the situation...
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guys,
don't stress, we will never win the whole value for money arguement, Dixon started that crap about pilot's having second jobs months ago....AIPA didn't waste time responding.....
Go read Tsun Tsu....
It keeps the thing on the front page, generates a repsonse and may just result in some of the (w)bankers (who are risk adverse) to begin to question the likelihood of generating the sort of returns they hope, without employee cooperation....
it is but another flank to attack...
And this battle ain't finished yet..........
don't stress, we will never win the whole value for money arguement, Dixon started that crap about pilot's having second jobs months ago....AIPA didn't waste time responding.....
Go read Tsun Tsu....
It keeps the thing on the front page, generates a repsonse and may just result in some of the (w)bankers (who are risk adverse) to begin to question the likelihood of generating the sort of returns they hope, without employee cooperation....
it is but another flank to attack...
And this battle ain't finished yet..........
short flights long nights
This is the best wind up I have seen in ages....it isa wind up right??????
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Avaition is not like it was that's for sure. It seems that the real world of hard bussiness has caught up with Qantas what with Jetstar and now this "buyout offer".
To be honest I doubt very much that it will happen and for the staff there I personaly hope that is the case.
Good luck, but drop this talk of 50k each, it's bad advice.
To be honest I doubt very much that it will happen and for the staff there I personaly hope that is the case.
Good luck, but drop this talk of 50k each, it's bad advice.
Imagine this scenario.
In the unlikely event the minimum 90% does not eventuate and the buyout does not proceed. Should the QF share price then fall any time for any reason during the next year or two Ian Woods and the pilots could find themselves defending a class action suit from other shareholders.
I suggest the pilots do not pay an inflated price for the QF shares but instead buy Delta Airlines shares. The shares were trading at 30 cents in March and are now approx. $1.50 (The all time high was just under $80 each).
I suggest Ian ask some of his counterparts in the U.S if they think his idea has merit.
In the unlikely event the minimum 90% does not eventuate and the buyout does not proceed. Should the QF share price then fall any time for any reason during the next year or two Ian Woods and the pilots could find themselves defending a class action suit from other shareholders.
I suggest the pilots do not pay an inflated price for the QF shares but instead buy Delta Airlines shares. The shares were trading at 30 cents in March and are now approx. $1.50 (The all time high was just under $80 each).
I suggest Ian ask some of his counterparts in the U.S if they think his idea has merit.
Goat Rider and P.A.Fr...
Agree 100% with your thoughts. Also, some of the most "money conscious" people I know are airline pilots and I know they sure as hell wont be putting 2 cents into any airline.
Agree 100% with your thoughts. Also, some of the most "money conscious" people I know are airline pilots and I know they sure as hell wont be putting 2 cents into any airline.
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In the unlikely event the minimum 90% does not eventuate and the buyout does not proceed. Should the QF share price then fall any time for any reason during the next year or two Ian Woods and the pilots could find themselves defending a class action suit from other shareholders.
How about QF management? Didn't see too many class actions when the shares languished around $3.00 following $5.00 highs.
I do agree though. This is a stupid idea from AIPA and yet another bullet hole in the foot!
Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
What is also interesting is that we all acknowledge that the quality of journalism in this country is abysmal and yet when a report comes out like this then it must be 100% factual and a true statement of events as they have occurred! 
This is not the whole picture and a point that Johnny Utah makes is one to remember- as an association AIPA is mostly supportive of the benefits that a LBO may offer QF drivers if we're properly engaged in the process.
There is more at play here then what just appears. I don't know what it is but given other events in QF recently then I'm pretty confident that this is only about 5% of the entire story.
This is not the whole picture and a point that Johnny Utah makes is one to remember- as an association AIPA is mostly supportive of the benefits that a LBO may offer QF drivers if we're properly engaged in the process.
There is more at play here then what just appears. I don't know what it is but given other events in QF recently then I'm pretty confident that this is only about 5% of the entire story.
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When questioned on the news tonight about where the pilots were going to come up with the 50k each, AIPA stated that they could provide finance to the pilots. Does that mean AIPA has 100 million in spare cash or are they going to make a bit on the side in the way of interest.
I think AIPA has done more damage in any further wage negotiations as Jonny public will now think all QF pilots are cashed up and over paid and hence don't require a pay rise or even their current pay.
I think AIPA has done more damage in any further wage negotiations as Jonny public will now think all QF pilots are cashed up and over paid and hence don't require a pay rise or even their current pay.
Ahahahahahaahaha
When you live....
Arrrrgggggghhhhhhhh
Whoever came up with this stunt (and that's all it is) should be shot!
Joe public has just been presented with the message that all pilots have a spare $50k sitting in their trouser pockets just waiting to sink into Qantas. So much for fighting the sterotype about overpaid bus drivers.
Gonna backfire for sure next time you hint at any kind of action and management run to the meejia and point out that you're all so loaded that you almost bought the company.
UTR
Joe public has just been presented with the message that all pilots have a spare $50k sitting in their trouser pockets just waiting to sink into Qantas. So much for fighting the sterotype about overpaid bus drivers.
Gonna backfire for sure next time you hint at any kind of action and management run to the meejia and point out that you're all so loaded that you almost bought the company.
UTR
I would be more inclined to stick my 50k with the buyout, on the priviso that they get rid of Dixon.
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Pilots meet about Qantas takeover
December 19, 2006 12:00
Article from: The Daily Telegraph
PILOTS will meet today to discuss the proposed takeover of Qantas and a possible plan to thwart the deal.
Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) president Ian Woods said pilots were concerned about the uncertainty of the takeover and what it meant for their careers and professional standards.
Captain Woods said pilots hoped those buying the airline would appreciate they should not mess with a successful and iconic operation.
"We would hope to see that that is the case. But there have also been other statements that Qantas will concentrate on the main trunk routes, at least internationally, the City Flyer routes in Australia and the growth elsewhere will be in Jetstar," he said.
Pilots were concerned about the uncertainty involved in the deal, he said.
The actual strategy was relatively clear but how it would be implemented was unsettling.
"By that I mean the growth is said to be in Jetstar. Qantas careers for pilots are of course cradle to grave. Once you are on board, halfway through your career, to be in a boat which is sinking while another one is rising is a very unsettling situation.
"Our proposal will be on the table for discussion, as will be any of the other agenda items from the other 10 or so Qantas unions who are also concerned about what is going on."
The meeting will take the form of a national phone hookup conducted from Melbourne this afternoon.
Last week, Qantas directors recommended acceptance of the $5.60 a share bid from a consortium comprising Macquarie Bank, US private equity firm Texas Pacific Group, homegrown investment companies Allco Equity Partners, Allco Finance Group and Canadian buyout group Onex Corp.
The deal will only proceed with 90 per cent acceptance and Qantas' 2,500 pilots have proposed contributing $50,000 each to acquire about one per cent of Qantas stock in the hope that they and others can stop the deal.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is also investigating the takeover, which must meet Australian legislative requirements including majority Australian ownership.
Captain Woods said pilots were concerned about their jobs stagnating while Jetstar was growing, and thought they should be allowed to transfer between the two airlines
Your kidding me right? Dont tell me that QF pilots are now wanting to go fly with JQ pilots?
December 19, 2006 12:00
Article from: The Daily Telegraph
PILOTS will meet today to discuss the proposed takeover of Qantas and a possible plan to thwart the deal.
Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) president Ian Woods said pilots were concerned about the uncertainty of the takeover and what it meant for their careers and professional standards.
Captain Woods said pilots hoped those buying the airline would appreciate they should not mess with a successful and iconic operation.
"We would hope to see that that is the case. But there have also been other statements that Qantas will concentrate on the main trunk routes, at least internationally, the City Flyer routes in Australia and the growth elsewhere will be in Jetstar," he said.
Pilots were concerned about the uncertainty involved in the deal, he said.
The actual strategy was relatively clear but how it would be implemented was unsettling.
"By that I mean the growth is said to be in Jetstar. Qantas careers for pilots are of course cradle to grave. Once you are on board, halfway through your career, to be in a boat which is sinking while another one is rising is a very unsettling situation.
"Our proposal will be on the table for discussion, as will be any of the other agenda items from the other 10 or so Qantas unions who are also concerned about what is going on."
The meeting will take the form of a national phone hookup conducted from Melbourne this afternoon.
Last week, Qantas directors recommended acceptance of the $5.60 a share bid from a consortium comprising Macquarie Bank, US private equity firm Texas Pacific Group, homegrown investment companies Allco Equity Partners, Allco Finance Group and Canadian buyout group Onex Corp.
The deal will only proceed with 90 per cent acceptance and Qantas' 2,500 pilots have proposed contributing $50,000 each to acquire about one per cent of Qantas stock in the hope that they and others can stop the deal.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is also investigating the takeover, which must meet Australian legislative requirements including majority Australian ownership.
Captain Woods said pilots were concerned about their jobs stagnating while Jetstar was growing, and thought they should be allowed to transfer between the two airlines
Your kidding me right? Dont tell me that QF pilots are now wanting to go fly with JQ pilots?
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so... they wouldn't buy in when the share price was low? doesn't reflect highly on the value the pilot group put on the business before. perhaps if the pilots were to have invested their $125mil in the company the share price may have been pushed up and some of that 'value' that hasn't been recognised by the market would've been obtained?
but the logic behind this concept is dodgy... buy in at $5.23 (today's closing price) - and either sell to the consortium once they get over the 90% compulsory acquisition hurdle and make 37c per share, or succeed in squashing the deal, then watch the share price fall back to where it was pre speculation at around $3.30 ish, and lose 40% odd of your investment.
So is the question whether the pilots believe that squashing this deal is worth a personal sacrifice of $20k?
but the logic behind this concept is dodgy... buy in at $5.23 (today's closing price) - and either sell to the consortium once they get over the 90% compulsory acquisition hurdle and make 37c per share, or succeed in squashing the deal, then watch the share price fall back to where it was pre speculation at around $3.30 ish, and lose 40% odd of your investment.
So is the question whether the pilots believe that squashing this deal is worth a personal sacrifice of $20k?
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Your kidding me right? Don't tell me that QF pilots are now wanting to go fly with JQ pilots?
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So let me get this straight.....
Firstly AIPA supported the proposed buyout.
Now when no one would meet them from "the consortium" they oppose the buyout.
Then AIPA was going to lend the money to Pilots to make the purchase or back them financially.
Now Ian Woods has stated that the "pilots would be looking for a similar 1% out of collective bargaining on a forwards estimates basis".
Ian Woods is now saying that he wants "the consortium" (of which Qantas is a party having recommended the deal) to fund the pilots to overturn the takeover.
Is this bloke for real?
One financial commentator wrapped it up beautifully when he used the word "lunacy".
It is a real pity that the livelihoods of Qantas Pilots will be traded for the political aspirations of two egotistical individuals. What is more the pity is that the Pilots are going to sit back and let it happen.
Firstly AIPA supported the proposed buyout.
Now when no one would meet them from "the consortium" they oppose the buyout.
Then AIPA was going to lend the money to Pilots to make the purchase or back them financially.
Now Ian Woods has stated that the "pilots would be looking for a similar 1% out of collective bargaining on a forwards estimates basis".
Ian Woods is now saying that he wants "the consortium" (of which Qantas is a party having recommended the deal) to fund the pilots to overturn the takeover.
Is this bloke for real?
One financial commentator wrapped it up beautifully when he used the word "lunacy".
It is a real pity that the livelihoods of Qantas Pilots will be traded for the political aspirations of two egotistical individuals. What is more the pity is that the Pilots are going to sit back and let it happen.
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Will the pilots be given a chance to vote for this proposal before they are asked to hand over the money? I know there wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for the proposed pilot buyout of Ansett.