Demoted Air NZ pilot wins back captain ranking
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Demoted Air NZ pilot wins back captain ranking
A ground-breaking Employment Court decision has overturned an Air New Zealand policy of automatically demoting pilots from the captain's seat on their 60th birthdays.
David McAlister now wants compensation as well as his captain's rank back, the Herald on Sunday reports today.
Air NZ pilots flying certain aircraft have had to give up the captain's seat when they turn 60 to fit in with overseas laws. They can still work as co-pilot, or fly domestic routes, but these jobs are lower-paid.
McAlister, now 62, spent 35 years with the company, and had been a flight instructor and chief pilot, as well as pilot in command. If he was reinstated as captain, he would now be able to fly freely for a further three years, because the International Civil Aviation Authority last month bumped its age limit from 60 to 65.
In her decision, Judge Shaw sympathised with the airline's position and agreed the rosters were "immensely complicated" – but said there was direct evidence the company's decision was based purely on age.
"The fact that Air NZ did not intend (and I find that it did not intend) to actively discriminate on the basis of age, does not detract from the fact that but for his age, Mr McAlister would not have been limited in the range of flying activities which he could undertake."
Air NZ represetnative Tracey Palmer could not comment on the possibility of an appeal against the decision.
David McAlister now wants compensation as well as his captain's rank back, the Herald on Sunday reports today.
Air NZ pilots flying certain aircraft have had to give up the captain's seat when they turn 60 to fit in with overseas laws. They can still work as co-pilot, or fly domestic routes, but these jobs are lower-paid.
McAlister, now 62, spent 35 years with the company, and had been a flight instructor and chief pilot, as well as pilot in command. If he was reinstated as captain, he would now be able to fly freely for a further three years, because the International Civil Aviation Authority last month bumped its age limit from 60 to 65.
In her decision, Judge Shaw sympathised with the airline's position and agreed the rosters were "immensely complicated" – but said there was direct evidence the company's decision was based purely on age.
"The fact that Air NZ did not intend (and I find that it did not intend) to actively discriminate on the basis of age, does not detract from the fact that but for his age, Mr McAlister would not have been limited in the range of flying activities which he could undertake."
Air NZ represetnative Tracey Palmer could not comment on the possibility of an appeal against the decision.
Presumably he was taken off the captains roster when he turned 60 in accordance with the ICAO rules. No problems. Then ICAO change their rules from 60 to 65 but Air NZ fail to reinstate the guy as a captain. This would be when the ex-captain gets annoyed.
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Cloud....ditto mate....AirNZ dont make "those" rules,so a catch 22 for sure,mind you they were probably bloody happy to see him go,based on what he was making,ie $$$$$.....
This ruling is actually very signifcant,as it will set somewhat of a precedent...the young fellas calling it B/S for obvious reasons,and those in the 58-60 bracket calling it justified....depends I reckon where you stand as there are(over the course of ones flying career)many $$$$ involved.
Me,...I say if they can maintain their medicals and currency,they deserve to be back in their respective seats.
look back,and try and find sound reasoning or data that suggests these blokes are not qualified to fly,it is (in the modern day) nothing but pure discrimination.(correct me if I,m wrong but I believe it was dreamed up by AA,American Airlines,and then adopted by others,because it .....seemed like a good cut-off point)There is a little more to it,but not much,and none of it based on sound or accurate findings.
I have flown with Captains who on one day,according to the powers that be,are qualified medically and current.....yet tomorrow,because you turn 60,are now a worthless piece of aviation rubbish......its no wonder these blokes are pissed off......
for those of you in this arena(age 60)and still want to run the gauntlet....all the best to you......PB
This ruling is actually very signifcant,as it will set somewhat of a precedent...the young fellas calling it B/S for obvious reasons,and those in the 58-60 bracket calling it justified....depends I reckon where you stand as there are(over the course of ones flying career)many $$$$ involved.
Me,...I say if they can maintain their medicals and currency,they deserve to be back in their respective seats.
look back,and try and find sound reasoning or data that suggests these blokes are not qualified to fly,it is (in the modern day) nothing but pure discrimination.(correct me if I,m wrong but I believe it was dreamed up by AA,American Airlines,and then adopted by others,because it .....seemed like a good cut-off point)There is a little more to it,but not much,and none of it based on sound or accurate findings.
I have flown with Captains who on one day,according to the powers that be,are qualified medically and current.....yet tomorrow,because you turn 60,are now a worthless piece of aviation rubbish......its no wonder these blokes are pissed off......
for those of you in this arena(age 60)and still want to run the gauntlet....all the best to you......PB
Last edited by pakeha-boy; 10th Dec 2006 at 18:00.
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Aerocat
Got ya, that's a different story then (and I'm pleased the 'ICAA' wasn't formed overnight without my knowledge).
PB
Yeah mate, I reckon that plenty of pilots will be fit to captain a heavy at 65 (or even older), and as you say, it just depends on whether they can maintain a medical. Maybe some of the young guys need to consider that they won't be young forever, and may wish to work beyond 60 themselves. Just my thoughts.
Got ya, that's a different story then (and I'm pleased the 'ICAA' wasn't formed overnight without my knowledge).
PB
Yeah mate, I reckon that plenty of pilots will be fit to captain a heavy at 65 (or even older), and as you say, it just depends on whether they can maintain a medical. Maybe some of the young guys need to consider that they won't be young forever, and may wish to work beyond 60 themselves. Just my thoughts.
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Then ICAO change their rules from 60 to 65 but Air NZ fail to reinstate the guy as a captain.
T'was a Catch 22 for everyone. Hopefully a good outcome for all if AirNZ come's to the party.
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cloud....exacquery!!!! and a good point...getting old sucks and stops for nobody(well except for the yanks and plastic surgerry
)....12 yrs left for me @60 and a lot more if it goes to 65 on this patch.....amazing how a blokes attitude changes with actual up-front issues are shoved up the tailpipe
.....
like cloud says...remember boys,your day will come.....the good thing is that it will be a choice(mostly) and not govt BS
S2000 ....yeah mate,that maybe the case,and a valid point but the effects go deep,real deep.....my bet is that there are pilots all over thinkng bloody hard about this ruling,and rather rolling with the punches,this may be the catalyst to stir the bees nest...
I dont begrudge these blokes,they have contributed,and played by the rules,they dont make them,but when the rules change,dont let age be the dominent and end all factor.......my misses reckons on a good day,I,m like a 20 yr old All-Black...
.....shes a good liar for sure......
......PB
)....12 yrs left for me @60 and a lot more if it goes to 65 on this patch.....amazing how a blokes attitude changes with actual up-front issues are shoved up the tailpipe .....like cloud says...remember boys,your day will come.....the good thing is that it will be a choice(mostly) and not govt BS
S2000 ....yeah mate,that maybe the case,and a valid point but the effects go deep,real deep.....my bet is that there are pilots all over thinkng bloody hard about this ruling,and rather rolling with the punches,this may be the catalyst to stir the bees nest...
I dont begrudge these blokes,they have contributed,and played by the rules,they dont make them,but when the rules change,dont let age be the dominent and end all factor.......my misses reckons on a good day,I,m like a 20 yr old All-Black...
.....shes a good liar for sure...... ......PB
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cloud....exacquery!!!! and a good point...getting old sucks and stops for nobody(well except for the yanks and plastic surgerry )....12 yrs left for me @60 and a lot more if it goes to 65 on this patch.....amazing how a blokes attitude changes with actual up-front issues are shoved up the tailpipe .....
Have a couple of skippers with my lot that are continuing after 60, although they are part-time..and no longer on the seniority list
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H1.....maaaaate!...appreciate that comment .......just remember....dont go to sleep wiff your mouth open
.....safe flying mate....were you at the Welsh or pommy games...AB,,s.... you Bloody Beauty!!!ka mate!!
.......just remember....dont go to sleep wiff your mouth open .....safe flying mate....were you at the Welsh or pommy games...AB,,s.... you Bloody Beauty!!!ka mate!!
I don't think they failed to reinstate him as Captain, the way i read it, he took retirement (and hence no longer a company employee when the rule changed) versus a lower salary and job description, and now has won a case that effectively says he was "forced" into retirement due age, which is obviously illegal in NZ.
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Aero....you bring up a great point....my current contract allows pilots who are 58 and older to automatically get Captains pay and remain in the right seat for the duration until reaching 60....if this goes to 65,(which we believe it will)...these blokes would be silly to even go for the left seat...sort of obvious really....but that in itself has created a dilemma within the ranks....
and with a pilot group of over 4000+ pilots and a good percentage close to the 60 mark...it has made many happy,and many unhappy in that the young fellas may get the left seat but only earning half to 2/3,s of the bloke in the right seat.......think about that one....PB
and with a pilot group of over 4000+ pilots and a good percentage close to the 60 mark...it has made many happy,and many unhappy in that the young fellas may get the left seat but only earning half to 2/3,s of the bloke in the right seat.......think about that one....PB
