Easterns Question
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Easterns Question
Hi All,
Just have a few quick questions on EAA which I am hoping some one can help with.
How long does the endo and line training take? Is it correct that you are not paid for any of this? Where is this conducted?
What is the time frame for progression from FO to Capt?
Thanks,
bulla..
Just have a few quick questions on EAA which I am hoping some one can help with.
How long does the endo and line training take? Is it correct that you are not paid for any of this? Where is this conducted?
What is the time frame for progression from FO to Capt?
Thanks,
bulla..
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Ground engineering school 2.5 weeks
Sim about 1.5 weeks (around 7 sessions ending with sim check)
Another 2 weeks of ground studies (CRM, GPS/NPAs, FMS, CBTs etc etc)
Then around 6 or 7 weeks of line training.
Endorsement costs $10,000. You go on the payroll within a day or two of passing the sim check (so no pay for the first 4 weeks). You are then on full pay (no training wage).
Sim and ground engineering school done at the Qantas jet base.
Progression to captain....hmmm prob about 4 years at the moment give or take a couple of years
Sim about 1.5 weeks (around 7 sessions ending with sim check)
Another 2 weeks of ground studies (CRM, GPS/NPAs, FMS, CBTs etc etc)
Then around 6 or 7 weeks of line training.
Endorsement costs $10,000. You go on the payroll within a day or two of passing the sim check (so no pay for the first 4 weeks). You are then on full pay (no training wage).
Sim and ground engineering school done at the Qantas jet base.
Progression to captain....hmmm prob about 4 years at the moment give or take a couple of years
At the moment the time to command at EAA would be closer to 6 plus years I would think. Try Sunstate, I hear they are actually growing, not just replacing pilots who are leaving...
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Geez Grrowler,
You're a bit cranky matey. I've just read a few of your posts.
Have you ever visited the Childrens ward at the Childrens Hospital. You should for some perspective.
The flying at Easterns is great, the equipment is generally very good, the pay is average as an F/O ( roughly $50000 F/O and $84000 CPT ). The people are great and you can have a great day most days. There are a good handful of NEGATIVE people but you can avoid talking to them unless your stuck doing a double Albury with them, then just look out the window.
I'm still waiting for a command after just over 4 years which is a tad frustrating.
If its what you want GO FOR IT and make it happen. Life is what you make it not what others will do for you.
GUARD
You're a bit cranky matey. I've just read a few of your posts.
Have you ever visited the Childrens ward at the Childrens Hospital. You should for some perspective.
The flying at Easterns is great, the equipment is generally very good, the pay is average as an F/O ( roughly $50000 F/O and $84000 CPT ). The people are great and you can have a great day most days. There are a good handful of NEGATIVE people but you can avoid talking to them unless your stuck doing a double Albury with them, then just look out the window.
I'm still waiting for a command after just over 4 years which is a tad frustrating.
If its what you want GO FOR IT and make it happen. Life is what you make it not what others will do for you.
GUARD
To elaborate a little,
It should be said that there has been some recent contraction in the Eastern route structure due to some flying going to Sunstate and the closing of the Adelaide base.
Progression at Eastern is a very fluid thing right now. The biggest factor that will influence this is the DHC-8-Q400. Qantas has options for an additional ten of them and currently the initial seven of them are proving themselves to be very much inline with Managements expectations particularly in relation to fuel usage.
Now that Eastern has an pilot EBA (pay and conditions agreement) in place pertaining to the operation of the Q400, many insiders are tipping that there will be at least some of these options coming to fruition but unfortunately there is no guarantee.
Should Eastern not receive any options either because they are simply not taken up or instead they are given to Sunstate then there will possibly be further contraction of the Eastern route structure. Having said that, it would now seem inevitable that within the next couple of years the two companies will merge completely. The first stage of the management merger has already taken place and the second stage is being implemented as we speak. Merger of the seniority lists is a union issue rather than a management issue and there is usually base protection for a period of a few years but then all bets are off.
As you can see there is no simple answer to the progression question. In addition new recruits seem to be welcome to transfer at least at this stage to the bottom of the Sunstate seniority list. It is fair to say that progression within Sunstate is far ahead of Eastern right now because of their Q400 expansion. (As little as two years). Transfer of new recruits seems to have been a concession to get some F/O's to the Canberra base that already have at least some DHC-8 experience. It will not necessarily continue.
Morale is a lot better right now than it has been in the past and the starting pay is around $49.5k base plus around $5k of which around $2.5k is tax deductible. There are ten increments for each year of service averaging approximately $600 each.
Good luck with making your decision.
It should be said that there has been some recent contraction in the Eastern route structure due to some flying going to Sunstate and the closing of the Adelaide base.
Progression at Eastern is a very fluid thing right now. The biggest factor that will influence this is the DHC-8-Q400. Qantas has options for an additional ten of them and currently the initial seven of them are proving themselves to be very much inline with Managements expectations particularly in relation to fuel usage.
Now that Eastern has an pilot EBA (pay and conditions agreement) in place pertaining to the operation of the Q400, many insiders are tipping that there will be at least some of these options coming to fruition but unfortunately there is no guarantee.
Should Eastern not receive any options either because they are simply not taken up or instead they are given to Sunstate then there will possibly be further contraction of the Eastern route structure. Having said that, it would now seem inevitable that within the next couple of years the two companies will merge completely. The first stage of the management merger has already taken place and the second stage is being implemented as we speak. Merger of the seniority lists is a union issue rather than a management issue and there is usually base protection for a period of a few years but then all bets are off.
As you can see there is no simple answer to the progression question. In addition new recruits seem to be welcome to transfer at least at this stage to the bottom of the Sunstate seniority list. It is fair to say that progression within Sunstate is far ahead of Eastern right now because of their Q400 expansion. (As little as two years). Transfer of new recruits seems to have been a concession to get some F/O's to the Canberra base that already have at least some DHC-8 experience. It will not necessarily continue.
Morale is a lot better right now than it has been in the past and the starting pay is around $49.5k base plus around $5k of which around $2.5k is tax deductible. There are ten increments for each year of service averaging approximately $600 each.
Good luck with making your decision.
Boys and Girls and mateys,
Not cranky, just getting straight to the point. Two years is not a realistic time frame for a command.
Sure I agree with all the great flying, great people, etc, etc, but let's keep it real. If you are interested in a command in the nearer future (without the aid of a crystal ball), you would be better off going to SSA.
Not cranky, just getting straight to the point. Two years is not a realistic time frame for a command.
Sure I agree with all the great flying, great people, etc, etc, but let's keep it real. If you are interested in a command in the nearer future (without the aid of a crystal ball), you would be better off going to SSA.
EAA time to command at least 5 years but could soon extend out to 7+ years depending on your choice of base(i'm coming up to 5 years and still about 10 off a command). SSA time to command has recently been less than 3 years to a Q400 command CBR.
In summary, if you have the option go for SSA, simple.
In summary, if you have the option go for SSA, simple.
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marking time
Growler and hoss et al
Hopefully the recent elections in the subcouncil will result in a newer better bigger improved level of communication over the Tweed River.
Jarse and I have spoken at length over the two way flow of information/ideas etc
Watch this space and remember second class flying is better than first class walking.
Remember the Killjoy morale principle may no longer apply!
To quote ol55 "get a job yeah tra la la la la"
Get your foot in the door and be prepared for your ideal of a perfect world to get some subtle, or not so subtle, changes.
Good luck with your application and endorsement. After 17 years here it has had its moments of sheer horror, sounds like 99/1 boredom/terror.
I hope to see some of you soon once I get back to Aus after my three + weeks leave jet setting around the world.
I plan to send GD a little note begging him to remember that the people are his greatest asset.
Cheers all
Hopefully the recent elections in the subcouncil will result in a newer better bigger improved level of communication over the Tweed River.
Jarse and I have spoken at length over the two way flow of information/ideas etc
Watch this space and remember second class flying is better than first class walking.
Remember the Killjoy morale principle may no longer apply!
To quote ol55 "get a job yeah tra la la la la"
Get your foot in the door and be prepared for your ideal of a perfect world to get some subtle, or not so subtle, changes.
Good luck with your application and endorsement. After 17 years here it has had its moments of sheer horror, sounds like 99/1 boredom/terror.
I hope to see some of you soon once I get back to Aus after my three + weeks leave jet setting around the world.
I plan to send GD a little note begging him to remember that the people are his greatest asset.
Cheers all
Last edited by harrowing; 19th Oct 2006 at 04:05. Reason: missed a commer and took it out again!
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2 as 1
Pardon my ignorenance but doesn’t EAA and SSA have the same CP now? This would illustrate an eventual merge of the two into one entity? I know this has been discussed many times before but what would happen when it finally (if) does happen? Would command time across the board be determined on base choice, company attrition and company growth with a more uniform progression as one entity rather then two??
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Interesting post HARROWING.
You obviously spent a lot of time in Amsterdam.....because I've got NO IDEA what you're talking about.
Chilli Tarts,
We have a common Flight Operations Manager which is a different beast but the merge should be VERY close I would say subject to a little base protection and would be in the company's best interests, given that they are overnighting Canberra based Sunstate crew in Sydney would you believe.
Its certainly a fluid environment in aviation these days and I think not only do we have to remain flexible but so do our management(s).
GUARD
You obviously spent a lot of time in Amsterdam.....because I've got NO IDEA what you're talking about.
Chilli Tarts,
We have a common Flight Operations Manager which is a different beast but the merge should be VERY close I would say subject to a little base protection and would be in the company's best interests, given that they are overnighting Canberra based Sunstate crew in Sydney would you believe.
Its certainly a fluid environment in aviation these days and I think not only do we have to remain flexible but so do our management(s).
GUARD
