Glass is half full...
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Glass is half full...
It seems gone are the days where flying was great... this web would be entertaining and diversified, instead of bitchy and QF-d... life was good but if it wasn't so...we'd look on the glass being half full...not half empty!
...in GA we would all be one happy family (especially in the N.T.). We would network (over numerous beers
) and help each other into job vacancies we knew on the quiet were coming up... we'd laugh and recount stories of fug ups and experiences had over the day, even with the CAA blokes... over a beer at "the Aero Club" (Sth Side) or "the 'stute". If you didn't have good work conditions... mates helped us into places that did.
We'd word-up each other on up-coming sims in the regionals...have BBQs, bring a plate of food to help out... and enjoy the company of friends...and friends friends... not get into a "my dicks bigger than your dick" competition.
If a jet job was simmering, we'd let mates know and assist with prep, study or training... You'd shout a Jet-Keg on your first Jet Airline job (rarely seen nowdays... as is the "1000-hour keg" and "5000-hour Keg"... major achievements in anyones a career!)
We'd try and make the best out of a poor deal or get into improving it otherwise... and at least be considerate and hospitable to mates.
Good and honourable human attributes are missing in this industry today!
My call is to bring them back or we are the worse off... as has been so bluntly shown AT ALL LEVELS these past years.
...in GA we would all be one happy family (especially in the N.T.). We would network (over numerous beers
) and help each other into job vacancies we knew on the quiet were coming up... we'd laugh and recount stories of fug ups and experiences had over the day, even with the CAA blokes... over a beer at "the Aero Club" (Sth Side) or "the 'stute". If you didn't have good work conditions... mates helped us into places that did.We'd word-up each other on up-coming sims in the regionals...have BBQs, bring a plate of food to help out... and enjoy the company of friends...and friends friends... not get into a "my dicks bigger than your dick" competition.
If a jet job was simmering, we'd let mates know and assist with prep, study or training... You'd shout a Jet-Keg on your first Jet Airline job (rarely seen nowdays... as is the "1000-hour keg" and "5000-hour Keg"... major achievements in anyones a career!)
We'd try and make the best out of a poor deal or get into improving it otherwise... and at least be considerate and hospitable to mates.
Good and honourable human attributes are missing in this industry today!
My call is to bring them back or we are the worse off... as has been so bluntly shown AT ALL LEVELS these past years.
Last edited by Chocks Away; 9th Oct 2006 at 09:45.
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Good luck Chocks.
I have attempted to tilt at this windmill before, but coming up to 16 year old events threw logic away.
The thing is that the mongrels that were manipulating from the outside to make mates adversaries appeared to have won.
I still cannot believe the perceived enemies never saw it coming.
A little solidarity would be a great thing.
Like I said Chocks, best of luck mate and I will buy a keg if you can pull it off.
Best regards
EWL
I have attempted to tilt at this windmill before, but coming up to 16 year old events threw logic away.
The thing is that the mongrels that were manipulating from the outside to make mates adversaries appeared to have won.
I still cannot believe the perceived enemies never saw it coming.
A little solidarity would be a great thing.
Like I said Chocks, best of luck mate and I will buy a keg if you can pull it off.
Best regards
EWL
Last edited by Eastwest Loco; 10th Oct 2006 at 02:31. Reason: Non cleverness.
we'd laugh and recount stories of fug ups and experiences had over the day... over a beer at "the Aero Club" (Sth Side) or "the 'stute". If you didn't have good work conditions... mates helped us into places that did.
used to be nice walking in and talking to a real person in the Briefing office.
The 12.00 exutus to the Berimah. Bloody funny to watch, the briefing office would empty out, engineers, pilots controllers, and FSU operators all racing to get the best spot in front of the stage, and order their sausage sandwich. When the 12.15 finished it was like a caravan to the next show, regualarly ending up in town, not to be seen again for the day!
It wasn't that long ago and it was good, wasn't it. I can't remember disputes between companies back then.
Even good old Mr PLOD used to come around for a beer at the end of the day.
Might be a good post for all those folk who would like to recount some funny NT events.
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Yep, that's it... all heading of to the "Sportmans Bar" for the 3;30, 4;20 or 5 o'clock shows... THAT'S where you had your job interview and got a job offer (un-be-know to yourself at the time).
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Hey Chocks,
Get yourself over to ye Olde Englande and I'll stump up 2 kegs.
Failing that we can have a go at trying to drink the 8 pubs in the village dry. 
Actually, in ye Olde Englande they have none of those traditions. Most of 'em bleat about not going straight to a jet job after flight school.
Get yourself over to ye Olde Englande and I'll stump up 2 kegs.
Failing that we can have a go at trying to drink the 8 pubs in the village dry. Actually, in ye Olde Englande they have none of those traditions. Most of 'em bleat about not going straight to a jet job after flight school.
Industry Culture.
Folks,
This is something I hold dear to my heart at present.
CULTURE.
There seems to be a real lack of culture amongst airline and GA employees. What I mean by culture was alluded to by Owen in the first post of this thread, but for me includes walking the fine line between looking after ourselves as employees and looking after the company that pays me to fly their planes. Its a VERY fine line, but one we all have to walk along.
I see new pilots and flight attendants come throught the ranks with no care and concern for what they do. It seems some out there chose this industry cause, well, I didn't get into whatever else at uni. Nothing wrong with it, but it does not breed passion for our industry
As Chocks said, lets look after each other; help out your mates when they are going for a check, show a GA pilot your cockpit on a turnaorund ( if your security requirments permits) , buy that KEG when you achieve a milestone in your career, look out for each other.
Do even one of these things and we will make our industry just that bit better.
Capt Stoobing.
This is something I hold dear to my heart at present.
CULTURE.
There seems to be a real lack of culture amongst airline and GA employees. What I mean by culture was alluded to by Owen in the first post of this thread, but for me includes walking the fine line between looking after ourselves as employees and looking after the company that pays me to fly their planes. Its a VERY fine line, but one we all have to walk along.
I see new pilots and flight attendants come throught the ranks with no care and concern for what they do. It seems some out there chose this industry cause, well, I didn't get into whatever else at uni. Nothing wrong with it, but it does not breed passion for our industry
As Chocks said, lets look after each other; help out your mates when they are going for a check, show a GA pilot your cockpit on a turnaorund ( if your security requirments permits) , buy that KEG when you achieve a milestone in your career, look out for each other.
Do even one of these things and we will make our industry just that bit better.
Capt Stoobing.
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Originally Posted by Captain Stoobing
but it does not breed passion for our industry
Unfortunately, to so many of my colleagues, this is just a job - something to do until they get what they want - whereas for me its the industry I will be in until the day I die...
The question is - who or what breeds this lack of longevity? Airline management? Airline recruitment departments? Gen-Y'ers with no work ethic?
From a flight attendant point of view, I would like to see more done to encourage people to see this as a career, as opposed to a short term job...
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Eastwest Loco
Really suggest that you edit your post here. One of the people you allude to made a fortune out of defamation actions sufficient to purchase a very nice house in a very desirable location.
I suggest this out of respect for you, not the person to whom you refer.
Really suggest that you edit your post here. One of the people you allude to made a fortune out of defamation actions sufficient to purchase a very nice house in a very desirable location.
I suggest this out of respect for you, not the person to whom you refer.
Last edited by PLovett; 10th Oct 2006 at 01:18. Reason: Afterthought
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Done PL
Very sage advice.
I do get very steamed up over the events that exacerbated relationships at that time and the overall effect on all in domestic aviation, and beyond.
Hence engaged keyboard without ensuring brain was online.
Bad me!!
Thanks mate.
Best regards
EWL
I do get very steamed up over the events that exacerbated relationships at that time and the overall effect on all in domestic aviation, and beyond.
Hence engaged keyboard without ensuring brain was online.
Bad me!!
Thanks mate.
Best regards
EWL
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Good stuff, we all still do the 1000 hr, various licence and command shouts etc, but I hadn't heard about the 'jet keg', hopefully get to throw one of those some day
Maybe things are better in this regard in NZ. Plenty of us here are still keen to help our mates (and anyone who's keen) get their next big break. As you say, this culture is something we need to work hard to keep.
Maybe things are better in this regard in NZ. Plenty of us here are still keen to help our mates (and anyone who's keen) get their next big break. As you say, this culture is something we need to work hard to keep.
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When I started out in NZ it was similar to what you guys describe Oz to be.
You picked up the stuff that would save your life someday..over a few beers. In my case I had a bit of a habit of flying under power lines and other temporary residental (on earth) flying techniques. Rather than just a simple bollocking, the CFI at my aeroclub organised a day of me sitting in the jumpseat of a local Ag operator which scared the s**t outta me, and also opened my eyes to the REAL risks of low flying.
I got my first job thanks to our local engineer who had heard (whilst fixing the plane) that a parajump operator needed a pilot for the tourist season, and that job got me a multi job as the aircraft owner had a mate who operated Aztrucks and navajokes...and HE needed a pilot.
When I went to the UK...(after flying in Oz for 16 months)..it was a totally different kettle of fish, I knew no one, didnt know where to start, and generally felt like a little fish in an extremely large pond, and yet all the little things in NZ and Oz that I learnt...eventually got me to where I am in the UK now
To my mind its attitude...yes things have changed, its a natural cycle I guess, and yes certain parties have done their best to undermine T & C's, but that doesn't mean we have to stop being human beings
You picked up the stuff that would save your life someday..over a few beers. In my case I had a bit of a habit of flying under power lines and other temporary residental (on earth) flying techniques. Rather than just a simple bollocking, the CFI at my aeroclub organised a day of me sitting in the jumpseat of a local Ag operator which scared the s**t outta me, and also opened my eyes to the REAL risks of low flying.
I got my first job thanks to our local engineer who had heard (whilst fixing the plane) that a parajump operator needed a pilot for the tourist season, and that job got me a multi job as the aircraft owner had a mate who operated Aztrucks and navajokes...and HE needed a pilot.
When I went to the UK...(after flying in Oz for 16 months)..it was a totally different kettle of fish, I knew no one, didnt know where to start, and generally felt like a little fish in an extremely large pond, and yet all the little things in NZ and Oz that I learnt...eventually got me to where I am in the UK now
To my mind its attitude...yes things have changed, its a natural cycle I guess, and yes certain parties have done their best to undermine T & C's, but that doesn't mean we have to stop being human beings
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Seven odd years ago in Katherine we used to have a pilots P!ss up and Bullsh!t session every Thursday night at any place that have food and drinks, (not exactly in that order). Much could be learnt and much could be laughed at/with. Any and all aviation bods were invited and many a long lasting friendship was sealed.
ChocksAway....DAMN RIGHT!
ChocksAway....DAMN RIGHT!
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Ill start
Opening for a single piston driver rural western australia, suit low hour (250ttish) pilot with maybe 200 series time.
PM for details and ill organise resume to be sent to the boss
4S
Opening for a single piston driver rural western australia, suit low hour (250ttish) pilot with maybe 200 series time.
PM for details and ill organise resume to be sent to the boss
4S
Commraderie and lending a helping hand
i'm all for more "commraderie" but aviation and booze is going to be an interesting topic once drug and alcohol testing gets underway soon in the not too distant future.
and i'm all for celebrations for various "milestones" in our career but pilots and booze are in for some interesting times ahead.
cheers
djon moutard
and i'm all for celebrations for various "milestones" in our career but pilots and booze are in for some interesting times ahead.
cheers
djon moutard
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I don't think anyone's suggesting you should piss it up and then go flying. As long as you don't go to work with too little blood in your alcohol system, I don't see the problem. Just save the really big nights until you've got a day off the following day. We've been open to testing for around a year now, and as yet I only know of one instance when it's been exercised, just to set an example.
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We need to get it back
Chocks has it right. Many things were different then.
I remember one trip, as pax, from Adelaide to Alice Springs. My kids went to have a look up front, to see how it all worked. It was one of those days when everything was full, and our bags had been offloaded to the other airline, which was about 3 minutes behind us. The kids told the captain about this, and his reply was "yes, they have to follow us because they don't know the way."
And I remember flying in to Tennant creek, very early one morning, and the F27 "milk run" Aircraft was injbound from Darwin at the same time.. The FSO, based at Tennant Creek enquired if there were any spare meals on board, and when they landed the hostie trotted over to deliver his breakfast.
I remember pilots taking leave and going interstate to do IF ratings, and finding the flying schools had been wildly optomistic. So they came home with it half done, and we finished it off here, at company expense. You knew it was worth it in those days.
We had a great big team of pilots, met people, FSO's ATC'rs aerodrome inspectors and "examiners of airmen". We all worked togetther to get the job done, and try to improve things. We had full reporting, and HF radio. Many, many times you would be relaying radio calls for your opposition on VHF, when they couldn't get through on HF. And they did it for you. The only navaids were up and down the centre, where the airlines flew. And no GPS.
Each year, a few went off to the airlines, and we congratulated them. But there were only a few. Most pilots were long term GA people, who worked hard at trying to make things better.
It's very different now. Too many pilots believe what the flying schools tell them, and consider themselves to be only temporary residents. So the salaries are mostly gone, to be replaced by casual or contract work. And pilots are fierce compettiors. Just like in the cities, where there are lots of pilots and little work. It was always thus in the cities.
I wish the young pilots well. We need that comaraderie back, and the quiet pride that goes with doing a difficult job well. Doing valuable work.
Chocks is right, as long as the importance of alcohol is kept under control.
Being a bush pilot is an honourable profession.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The outback--- where the difficult things get done.
I remember one trip, as pax, from Adelaide to Alice Springs. My kids went to have a look up front, to see how it all worked. It was one of those days when everything was full, and our bags had been offloaded to the other airline, which was about 3 minutes behind us. The kids told the captain about this, and his reply was "yes, they have to follow us because they don't know the way."
And I remember flying in to Tennant creek, very early one morning, and the F27 "milk run" Aircraft was injbound from Darwin at the same time.. The FSO, based at Tennant Creek enquired if there were any spare meals on board, and when they landed the hostie trotted over to deliver his breakfast.
I remember pilots taking leave and going interstate to do IF ratings, and finding the flying schools had been wildly optomistic. So they came home with it half done, and we finished it off here, at company expense. You knew it was worth it in those days.
We had a great big team of pilots, met people, FSO's ATC'rs aerodrome inspectors and "examiners of airmen". We all worked togetther to get the job done, and try to improve things. We had full reporting, and HF radio. Many, many times you would be relaying radio calls for your opposition on VHF, when they couldn't get through on HF. And they did it for you. The only navaids were up and down the centre, where the airlines flew. And no GPS.
Each year, a few went off to the airlines, and we congratulated them. But there were only a few. Most pilots were long term GA people, who worked hard at trying to make things better.
It's very different now. Too many pilots believe what the flying schools tell them, and consider themselves to be only temporary residents. So the salaries are mostly gone, to be replaced by casual or contract work. And pilots are fierce compettiors. Just like in the cities, where there are lots of pilots and little work. It was always thus in the cities.
I wish the young pilots well. We need that comaraderie back, and the quiet pride that goes with doing a difficult job well. Doing valuable work.
Chocks is right, as long as the importance of alcohol is kept under control.
Being a bush pilot is an honourable profession.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The outback--- where the difficult things get done.