Flying in Europe...Big deal?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: ATH
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying in Europe...Big deal?
Hey all, just thought I might get some handy piece of advice by starting this thread. Mainly wanting to hear from pilots who have been in Europe and flown around there, whether for training,work or even recreational.
I have a frozen ATPL and I will soon be doing my IFR, hopefully heading to Europe with 500 odd hours..I know it ain't much but its better than a bare CPL with 250h!! I hope it makes a difference..
To complete my JAR licence I need to sit a CPL/ME-CIR flight test and have a minimum of 15h in European airspace. So I dare to ask..What are my chances of managing that in the minimum amount of hours? How does the airspace there compare to our's? Is every country different?
Am I better off to do a full IFR in Europe instead of converting it?
I might have to complete an MCC course too before I can apply to the airlines, just so my resume is more competitive...Any advice?
Thanx in advance, hope there is someone out there who can help!
I have a frozen ATPL and I will soon be doing my IFR, hopefully heading to Europe with 500 odd hours..I know it ain't much but its better than a bare CPL with 250h!! I hope it makes a difference..
To complete my JAR licence I need to sit a CPL/ME-CIR flight test and have a minimum of 15h in European airspace. So I dare to ask..What are my chances of managing that in the minimum amount of hours? How does the airspace there compare to our's? Is every country different?
Am I better off to do a full IFR in Europe instead of converting it?
I might have to complete an MCC course too before I can apply to the airlines, just so my resume is more competitive...Any advice?
Thanx in advance, hope there is someone out there who can help!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
OK here goes....(came to the UK in 2000 with a NZ CPL/IR..and now in my hands I have a JAR ATPL with a fistfull of heavy jet hours)
1st thing, do your IR in Oz and convert it, secondly yes, you will need to do an MCC, as it is a requirement of the JAR ATPL.
One last thing, there is the 14 exams you need to do
Hope this helps
1st thing, do your IR in Oz and convert it, secondly yes, you will need to do an MCC, as it is a requirement of the JAR ATPL.
One last thing, there is the 14 exams you need to do
Hope this helps
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NZ
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G'day H1
Couple of questions (just out of curiosity).
Do you have to have a UK passport, or will airlines take you with just a work visa? I believe they can offer sponsorship for long term employment, but not sure they do?
Does it make any difference if you have an ATPL or is the process much the same?
Cheers mate.
Couple of questions (just out of curiosity).
Do you have to have a UK passport, or will airlines take you with just a work visa? I believe they can offer sponsorship for long term employment, but not sure they do?
Does it make any difference if you have an ATPL or is the process much the same?
Cheers mate.
G'day CC
No,to your first rock hudson(query) most airlines require you to be able to fly throughout the EU and will not sponsor(having said that when the well runs dry they will start sponsoring)
As far as the ATPL goes it doesn't make any difference or at least didn't when i made the move(2000). I arrived with >5000 hrs on nothing heavier than Do 228 so had to do the 14 odd exams.Still you should be able to knock those and the ifr flt test over in three months,just means a bit of hard graft.
Good luck
No,to your first rock hudson(query) most airlines require you to be able to fly throughout the EU and will not sponsor(having said that when the well runs dry they will start sponsoring)
As far as the ATPL goes it doesn't make any difference or at least didn't when i made the move(2000). I arrived with >5000 hrs on nothing heavier than Do 228 so had to do the 14 odd exams.Still you should be able to knock those and the ifr flt test over in three months,just means a bit of hard graft.
Good luck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: all over
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good luck with your endeavours. You will learn a lot in Europe that will make your future career a lotgmore enjoyable. Winter operations,very high traffic densities, unfamiliar airports, ATC capabilities ranging from the brilliant down to the sub-pedestrian. Well worth the effort and the steep learning curve.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
Get a break over here and you'll scratch you head as to why you need 2500 hours to fly a ****ty Bandit or Metro.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 2000
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Apgrau to hijack your post but I am in a similar position. I'm in PNG but seriously thinking about heading back to the UK. I have dual nationality(UK/NZ), PNG/NZ/Aussie CPL with Aussie ATPL subjects and about 2000 hours but mostly just on TU C206. Also lucky enough to have the money for the 14 exams etc plus MCC,MEIR conversion. What I'm worried about is my age. At 37 would it be a bit late. Haughtney, would like to hear what you think mate.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since were on topic, anyone with the exp. care to comment....
better to go over with the bare 3-400hrs or hang around oz get some time up and then go over? Currently doing the JAA ATPLs
Aussie
better to go over with the bare 3-400hrs or hang around oz get some time up and then go over? Currently doing the JAA ATPLs
Aussie
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aussie,
I recommend you get a bit more time before you make the move (especially if you have an opportunity for or are currently getting twin time in Oz. Shake a tree in the UK and a significant number of guys/girls with 400 hrs fall out...
If, however, you're not flying much then I say make the move now...the European lo-co market is still in growth and IMHO you are much more likely to crack that first jet gig in the northern hemisphere.
There are obviously a lot of variables to the decision (career priorities, finances, family situation, lifestyle desires etc) but i wouldn't be flying a shiny 744 if i hadn't taken a deep breath and made the move in '99. Its been the best calculated risk I ever took.
PG
I recommend you get a bit more time before you make the move (especially if you have an opportunity for or are currently getting twin time in Oz. Shake a tree in the UK and a significant number of guys/girls with 400 hrs fall out...
If, however, you're not flying much then I say make the move now...the European lo-co market is still in growth and IMHO you are much more likely to crack that first jet gig in the northern hemisphere.
There are obviously a lot of variables to the decision (career priorities, finances, family situation, lifestyle desires etc) but i wouldn't be flying a shiny 744 if i hadn't taken a deep breath and made the move in '99. Its been the best calculated risk I ever took.
PG
Last edited by Popgun; 24th Sep 2006 at 08:08. Reason: additional comments
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: ATH
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good day H1, thanx for the replies all you guys.
I have dual citizenship, so I can work and live in Europe. I have done my 12month military service when in Greece so no holdbacks there. I speak fluent Greek and English and quite good french. I have passed 5 JAR's so far and hopefuly I will have them all by March.
I want to get my IFR out of the way too so I can go and convert my licence soon after that.
Should I be looking at places like OAT where I can convert my licence and do an MCC and maybe a type rating if needed? They are very expensive but is their reputation worth it?
Or should I try and minimise the cost as much as possilbe and go to Egnatia in Greece for the conversion and look around for an MCC elsewhere.
Has anybody here gone to Europe and not trained in the UK? What if my licence was issued in Greece instead of the UK?Would it be looked down on?
Thanx again for any replies I might get...
I have dual citizenship, so I can work and live in Europe. I have done my 12month military service when in Greece so no holdbacks there. I speak fluent Greek and English and quite good french. I have passed 5 JAR's so far and hopefuly I will have them all by March.
I want to get my IFR out of the way too so I can go and convert my licence soon after that.
Should I be looking at places like OAT where I can convert my licence and do an MCC and maybe a type rating if needed? They are very expensive but is their reputation worth it?
Or should I try and minimise the cost as much as possilbe and go to Egnatia in Greece for the conversion and look around for an MCC elsewhere.
Has anybody here gone to Europe and not trained in the UK? What if my licence was issued in Greece instead of the UK?Would it be looked down on?
Thanx again for any replies I might get...
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
Killer,
To be honest...you'll run into a bit of resistance from certain quarters regarding your age. However given the fact that you have over 2000hrs and experience from a challenging environment, I reckon you would stand a good chance of landing a job. As ever though its a risk...hope this helps
To be honest...you'll run into a bit of resistance from certain quarters regarding your age. However given the fact that you have over 2000hrs and experience from a challenging environment, I reckon you would stand a good chance of landing a job. As ever though its a risk...hope this helps
My guess is you will need to have at least $50,000 Aust dollars up your sleeve to cover costs which are horrific. Better still, $75,000 to cover six months unemployment while you attempt exams. But it is worth it unless you are content to flog up and down the east coast of OZ on night freight in a Metro for most of your career.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With <500 hours on a certified multi crew aircraft (metro doesn't count) you'll need to -
Pass 14 JAR ATPL exams
Training as required to get to CPL standard
Initial CPL checkride
10 hours IR training (mandatory)
Initial IR checkride
Class 1 medical
With >500 hours on multi crew aircraft it's -
Pass 14 JAR ATPL exams
Initial ATPL checkride on the aircraft you've got the 500 hours on OR
Complete a type rating + ATPL checkride
Class 1 medical
Hope that helps
Pass 14 JAR ATPL exams
Training as required to get to CPL standard
Initial CPL checkride
10 hours IR training (mandatory)
Initial IR checkride
Class 1 medical
With >500 hours on multi crew aircraft it's -
Pass 14 JAR ATPL exams
Initial ATPL checkride on the aircraft you've got the 500 hours on OR
Complete a type rating + ATPL checkride
Class 1 medical
Hope that helps
Cheaper option would be to do the JAR exams in Australia then type rating overseas. Mob in Perth are offering to do them not sure of cost.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apgau,
Haven't read most peoples replies but; A european passport really is a must. If you've got one, I'd suggest you do the theory exams and MCC in the UK. Get a bar job or something that pays the rent and do them there, the cost difference is significant. It'll also allow you to figure out whether you really want to live there! Landing yourself a gig is also different from oz. No there aren't the same stupendous experience requirements as we have here now, but you still have to have the substance to make a good crewmember. Don't expect to waltz in and demand your 3 bars, they'll prod you the same way the airlines do here. However, the absence of bush flying may be attractive to you (personally I love every minute I'm in the sticks, but hey, whatever floats you boat). Good luck, you'll love flying in Europe.
Haven't read most peoples replies but; A european passport really is a must. If you've got one, I'd suggest you do the theory exams and MCC in the UK. Get a bar job or something that pays the rent and do them there, the cost difference is significant. It'll also allow you to figure out whether you really want to live there! Landing yourself a gig is also different from oz. No there aren't the same stupendous experience requirements as we have here now, but you still have to have the substance to make a good crewmember. Don't expect to waltz in and demand your 3 bars, they'll prod you the same way the airlines do here. However, the absence of bush flying may be attractive to you (personally I love every minute I'm in the sticks, but hey, whatever floats you boat). Good luck, you'll love flying in Europe.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I got my MCC on the basis of the time I had on a single pilot certified turbo-prop a couple of years ago. All time was in dedicated 2 crew operations. All I had to provide was evidence (letter from company) and the MCC was issued. Perhaps things have changed.
Onya
Onya
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
As of 01 October, any form of age-related discrimination will be illegal... so f'rinstance it'll be not-on to put an upper age in an ad.
You got the hours and experience they want, then you get a look-in regardless of age. Or so the law will say.
However a parallel might be cadet schemes. Australia has had such a law for some time and the QF scheme specifically states no upper limit (and I've heard of oldies like us getting in); BA's cadet blurb, however, states an upper limit of 36 (at the moment).
Good luck, son; wish I had what you had to give it a go.
And re passports: WRT working in the UK at all, you'll need either an EU/EEA passport OR a 'proper' (ie. not working-holiday) visa (eg. indefinite leave or ancestry) but then the employer might put extra restrictions on due to ops (eg. flying extra-EU where the whole crew might need visas, they might baulk at having to deal with a non-EU).
It might be worth putting something up on the Questions forum; I have heard more than one antipodean over the tannoy on Ryanair so they might be able to contribute re their passport/visa situation.
You got the hours and experience they want, then you get a look-in regardless of age. Or so the law will say.
However a parallel might be cadet schemes. Australia has had such a law for some time and the QF scheme specifically states no upper limit (and I've heard of oldies like us getting in); BA's cadet blurb, however, states an upper limit of 36 (at the moment).
Good luck, son; wish I had what you had to give it a go.
And re passports: WRT working in the UK at all, you'll need either an EU/EEA passport OR a 'proper' (ie. not working-holiday) visa (eg. indefinite leave or ancestry) but then the employer might put extra restrictions on due to ops (eg. flying extra-EU where the whole crew might need visas, they might baulk at having to deal with a non-EU).
It might be worth putting something up on the Questions forum; I have heard more than one antipodean over the tannoy on Ryanair so they might be able to contribute re their passport/visa situation.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 2000
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G'day Taildaragger, thanks for the post, very encouraging. I have a UK passport plus lucky enough to have a house over there. Will put something on Questions after work tonight.
You will still have to pay for your own rating over here.Read a serialised article in PILOT magazine by a young lad who is paying for the fully integrated course and is nearly with easijet.The situation has still not arisen where the airlines snap you up and hand out an endorsement. I hope you realise how expensive it is here(UK and Ireland0,the overall tax burden is punitive,but someone has to pay to save africa, wars,refugees,dole bludgers,single mothers etc.