Pilot-drain - The new aviation crisis

[Captain Sand Dune]

Geez Gaunty, you'd better duck for cover now!

Sounds like some people don't realize that RFDS does not equal airlines when it comes to minimum experience required.

[gas-chamber]

There will always be an endless supply of pilots suitable for the RHS. Always has been, always will be, especially in an affluent society such as ours where the cost of learning to fly is no deterrant. With a decent training budget, forward planning and dedicated training staff, any competent 250 hour pilot can be brought up to acceptable F/O standard in six months. That's not to say a few years in G.A. doesn't make a better candidate - imho there is no substitute for experience and even though turbine time isn't really needed to learn the airline job, if the market can supply turbine pilots, why not make that a pre-requisite?
But, the LHS is a different matter. Whether it is a King Air on RFDS work or an A320 droning around in the easy-peasy Aussie radar environment, the public have a right to expect that the Captain has the experience and training to deal with the unexpected, to read the weather by looking at it, to assess and only accept risks within certain strict parameters etc. One day this country will have a major airline hull loss and bodies will be spread over the countryside. Many risk experts acknowledge that this is inevitable. When it happens, let us hope the root cause is not found to be that old chestnut "pilot error" or the more politically correct "lack of training" or "the pilot was confronted with a situation which was so unexpected and outside his understanding that he simply could not cope".
Having planes parked for want of crews may cause managements some short term financial pain and in some ways it serves them right. Better that than to have planes crewed by hastily recruited and low cost incompetents, because once that crash does occur all the penny pinching that caused the pilot shortage in the first place will be nothing compared to the loss of revenue or possible bankruptcy resultant from the crash. I believe that Aussie airline managements have become too complacent and really don't think about what will happen if their airline is the first to bury an airframe. It will sure increase the share price of the opposition.
The real pilot shortage is likely to be for airline Captains but only until such time as existing First Officers get some meaningful experience and can move up. Realistically, for your 250 hour cadet or typical G.A. entrant, that takes about 5 years. Sure, most can manipulate the airplane to a good standard in 12 months, but no way they have the experience to be Captains until they have been exposed to a few years in the RHS. Therefore the current airline Captain shortage will be a temporary thing for a few years only, so those contemplating this career need to consider that fact and not let all the hype about it providing an on-going opportunity influence their choice.
The real shortage is more likely to be pilots who have what it takes to fly in places like PNG and the RFDS and who genuinely want to make a career of that type of flying. The money that these guys deserve is probably disproportionate to what those industries can or will pay. Another real area that industry should be addressing is the quantity and quality of flying instructors. There are some disturbingly inexperienced people out there passing on their inexperience.
It is aso incumbent upon CASA to monitor standards to prevent managements from taking soft-cock shortcuts with selection and training of every level of pilot from basic CPL through to airline Check Capt.

[M.25]

If there was anywhere near a pilot shortage, the RFDS would lower their minimum requirements and asses each application on a case by case basis. To not even consider an application from someone with a stack of pc12 time just because they don't have 1000hrs in a piston twin doesn't make any sense. They only state such high requirements BECAUSE THEY CAN.

[otto the grot]

The money that these guys deserve is probably disproportionate to what those industries can or will pay.

Work Choices has put the final nail in that coffin for us. What a bloke our little Johnie is.

[Barberspole-5]

[QUOTE

"What is scary is that when (instructors) get to the mid-level of their careers, they are being sucked up by major airlines to fly."[/QUOTE]

Whats scary is that flight instructors would get payed more working in an asian sweatshop, than working for shonks like the aforementioned flying school.

[grip-pipe]

Pilot Shortage

After a life time in this industry can only think of one response to this ' BOLLOCKS'

[Shagtastic]

Away from the deadman shoes environment in Australia you'd be interested to see the requirements currently facing airlines in Europe.

easyjet are looking for 630 pilots, Ryanair 500 pilots, BA perhaps 400 or more, Emirates..anyones guess, those A380's/B777's won't fly themselves (last time I looked!), so in the not too distant future these European companies may offer licence validations and visa sopnsorships.

Shags

[Captain Sand Dune]

If there was anywhere near a pilot shortage, the RFDS would lower their minimum requirements and asses each application on a case by case basis. To not even consider an application from someone with a stack of pc12 time just because they don't have 1000hrs in a piston twin doesn't make any sense. They only state such high requirements BECAUSE THEY CAN.

About 5 years ago I ws offerred an RFDS job in Derby. At the time I did not have all the stated minimum requirements. However I reckon they were willing to take me on based on the strength of my PC9 time. My point being yes, the RFDS does have quite stringent entry minimima (and for good reason, I believe), but they will also assess each applicant on their merits.
As much as I would have loved to have accepted the offer, I had to refuse - a wife and three boys aint cheap to run!

[A37575]

In all seriousness. RFDS flying appears to be considered the creme de la creme in GA circles. But maybe I am way off base, but isn't most of that flying a regular A to B on scheduled services? The black and stormy night medical rescue into dusty strips with the head-lights of cars illuminating the scrub or burning toilet rolls as flares. No aids except a GPS and worse still only one pilot who has to navigate over featureless sand dunes unseen below - a hero who really earns his $40K a year to rescue a snake bitten poor bastard covered in dirty big angry ants.

How many times a month/year would the intrepid RFDS pilot actually be forced into this situation?

[swh]

Originally Posted by A37575

How many times a month/year would the intrepid RFDS pilot actually be forced into this situation?

Could be three times in a day, or once a year. People do not schedule when or where the fall ill, or the circumstances or the time of day. Nor do they do it to coincide with a particular pilots roster.

On occasions like motor vehicle accidents, a number of aircraft or trips maybe needed to one site alone.

Different sections do their aviation parts slightly differently, some use charter aircraft for "clinic" runs, taking nurses, doctors and dentists on schedule appointments, others use their own equipment.

Hospital transfers or emergency work is not done on a "schedule", however some destinations seem to attract a higher number of visits for various medical reasons.

[T-bone]

Is this just a wind-up A37575.

Unfortunately it happens more often than you might believe...and considering the technology available today it is a crying shame that the RFDS still has to land under car headlights or burning toilet rolls(my favourite). A crying shame!!

[Point0Five]

That's basically correct PAF. And it sucks. Defence Super is a joke in almost every respect. None of the super is funded. Everything written on your Super statement with the exception of your own contributions is 'notional'!

That's crap. Re-read your super statement.

[otto the grot]

How many times a month/year would the intrepid RFDS pilot actually be forced into this situation?

Not often enoughA37575 in my opinion. The more there is of these sort of jobs the more interesting and challenging it remains.

However, even though this situation may not happen that often, it does happen, and the pilots have to be capable of performing these tasks. The difficulty is that you may not have flown a black hole approach for some time and now you have to pull something out of the bag at 3 in the morning with bugger all notice.

Do we get paid enough for this? NO! RFDS pilots are definately under paid and unfortunately that will always be the case. But i think the spin being put on this pilot drain thing might put the wind up management enough to make them think a bit as opposed to the normal lack of brain wave activity that goes on in head office.

[bfisk]

I am so glad i chose to start my pilot education at this time. One year ago I was out of school, 19 years old, now I live in the US, are a FAA CPL/IR/ME + CFI/I holder, work as a flight instructor at a reputable school, expect to return to Europe in a good year with about 1500 hrs, and have the JAR fATPL witin the end of next year. Hooray!

[Chimbu chuckles]

So you were in school a year or so back and now have a CPL/MECIR and are an IFR Instructor (CFI/I)?

That's a real shame because if true you are not experienced enough to be doing so.

[sumtingwong]

Originally Posted by A37575

In all seriousness. RFDS flying appears to be considered the creme de la creme in GA circles. But maybe I am way off base, but isn't most of that flying a regular A to B on scheduled services? The black and stormy night medical rescue into dusty strips with the head-lights of cars illuminating the scrub or burning toilet rolls as flares. No aids except a GPS and worse still only one pilot who has to navigate over featureless sand dunes unseen below - a hero who really earns his $40K a year to rescue a snake bitten poor bastard covered in dirty big angry ants.

How many times a month/year would the intrepid RFDS pilot actually be forced into this situation?

Correct about one thing fella; you are way off base.

Happened yesterday, Western Ops, Mt Vernon, read it in the paper if you like.

Do you still reckon $120 an hour in a synthetic trainer learning how to start a PC-12 or B200 will cut it?

[A37575]

Sumtingwong. It was a genuine query not a wind up. Once a pilot gets a job with the RFDS roughly how many hours or sectors does he fly ICUS before he is let loose on his own?

[sumtingwong]

Originally Posted by A37575

Sumtingwong. It was a genuine query not a wind up. Once a pilot gets a job with the RFDS roughly how many hours or sectors does he fly ICUS before he is let loose on his own?

No worries, but just to be clear nor was my response meant as a shot at you, just a genuine query as to your views.

In response to your question, I'll answer it, but can I suggest that you not think of RFDS ops as sectors or scheduled flights. That is not the case. It is all airwork category. This makes sense if you think about it; it’s certainly not RPT nor is it charter or private. By its very nature it has little to do with these previously mentioned categories.

To answer your question, the number of hours you do before you are let loose are not hard and fast, I would suggest between 15 and 50 hours. This is highly dependant on your background, aptitude and temperament. I would suggest again this is due to the highly demanding and volatile nature of the work. It is not suited, nor are all suited for the work, hours and conditions that will be experienced by all RFDS pilots at some stage.

Long windedly I know; what I’m suggesting is that the nature of the work is difficult, the hours are long. This does not suit everybody. For those that make it, it is highly rewarding personally, and the support from colleagues (fellow pilots, flight nurses and co-ords) is awesome.

So can I say that the entry requirements may be high, but they need to be for many reasons. RFDS ops are not line flying. They are changeable, volatile and challenging. Hours gained flying piston twins in the bush, while alone may be considered redundant in the current climate, provide the applicant with experience in many facets that is difficult to quantify. The 'hard GA yards' if you like may be able to create a mindset that allows candidates to better cope with the reality of RFDS ops.

Look, I've crapped on but, it's a tough job, long hours, ****ty locations, seeing stuff that makes you ill, but it’s the best job I've ever had....hands down

Cheers,

[A37575]

Sumtingwong. Thanks for info. Appreciated. A good mate was knocked off in the RFDS accident at Mt Gambier a couple of years back. Hence my interest.

[Crossbleed]

Aw C'mon..

are a FAA CPL/IR/ME + CFI/I holder, work as a flight instructor at a reputable school

That has gotta be bullsthwack. What on earth is going on in South Carolina?
What colour is your passport?
CFI/I = Chief Flight Instructor / Instrument??
I reckon he's drunk.