Dixon`s Follies
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I have been investing in the market for years.
Before I buy anything I spend a lot of time doing research.
When QF shares dipped below $3 I bought some having done research and determining that they were undervalued.
Nowhere did I find any mention of any of the blunders made by Dixon and their resultant impact on the bottom line.
Nothing in the general media and no mention whatsoever in any of QF publications.
Perhaps by making this information invisible they are in fact being fraudulent
Any sources of information you have PAF I would be grateful if you shared them.
Perhaps Dixon is not only incompetent but fraudulent.
This needs to be taken further I feel.
Before I buy anything I spend a lot of time doing research.
When QF shares dipped below $3 I bought some having done research and determining that they were undervalued.
Nowhere did I find any mention of any of the blunders made by Dixon and their resultant impact on the bottom line.
Nothing in the general media and no mention whatsoever in any of QF publications.
Perhaps by making this information invisible they are in fact being fraudulent
Any sources of information you have PAF I would be grateful if you shared them.
Perhaps Dixon is not only incompetent but fraudulent.
This needs to be taken further I feel.
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Persona Non Grata
Harry Lime(The third man)
There are several people who haunt these forums who should be ignored:PAF is one of them.
You raise valid points.
Hiding information that may have an impact on a corporation`s share price is indeed fraudulent... Enron comes to mind.
Perhaps the corporate watchdog needs to take a closer look at QFs creative book keeping.
In particular the way costs and cash are apportioned in the Qantas Group.
Perhaps a quiet word with the producer of 4 Corners may lead to some interesting media excavation.
Theres a lot of behaviour at Coward Street that`s not Kosher
There are several people who haunt these forums who should be ignored:PAF is one of them.
You raise valid points.
Hiding information that may have an impact on a corporation`s share price is indeed fraudulent... Enron comes to mind.
Perhaps the corporate watchdog needs to take a closer look at QFs creative book keeping.
In particular the way costs and cash are apportioned in the Qantas Group.
Perhaps a quiet word with the producer of 4 Corners may lead to some interesting media excavation.
Theres a lot of behaviour at Coward Street that`s not Kosher
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There are several people who haunt these forums who should be ignored:PAF is one of them.
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Some people just can't take a joke. 
You really should place the comment in the perspective I put it in. (a joke!)
The information is there. You just can't expect it to be layed out in a format you'd like. What are you after?? A 24,567 page report detailing each cash transaction.
All I'm claiming is the information you are talking about is (almost in toto) already reflected in the share price. Do yourself a favour MGF and read up on "Market Efficiency" .
If you really think you have information the rest of the market doesn't, you should be making financial investments based on that and reaping the reward that comes from that. If you read up on the topic above you'll probably see the folly in that form of thinking.
Feel free to ignore what I say. Continue making claims based on what you think however I'm doubting you have much grounding in Financial reporting requirements of companies let alone the level of market efficiency in Australia. I'm happy to be corrected if you wish to discuss the matter. You would probably laugh if the QANTAS CFO came and started trying to explain how you should fly an approach.. Surely you must realise that you may well not fully understand financial reporting requirements let alone the effect of the information (if any - which in my opinion is NONE - The information is already in QANTAS reports submitted to the ASX) discussed here. If you don't believe me, email the above information to a business / financial reporter at a major media outlet. They would have it all over the news. Of course if they ignore you, you may wish to consider if you are just defaming people behind the safety of anonimity. Accusing company directors / senior management of criminal offences is probably a bad practice to get into.
I suspect you or any other user would not log on here and accuse someone of murder (as you may have a case to answer for legally [granted, I'm no lawyer though!] ) , why then would you log on here and accuse people of serious "white collar crimes" that have significant penalties.
It's (of course and understandable) not considered good form to log on and accuse an operator / pilot of breaching Aviation regs. I'm not sure why you would take offence to someone pointing out that the information has been released. Essentially you are claiming information relavent to the market price has been hidden from the market.
A quote of yours:
That is the background of my posts.
You really should place the comment in the perspective I put it in. (a joke!)The information is there. You just can't expect it to be layed out in a format you'd like. What are you after?? A 24,567 page report detailing each cash transaction.
All I'm claiming is the information you are talking about is (almost in toto) already reflected in the share price. Do yourself a favour MGF and read up on "Market Efficiency" .
If you really think you have information the rest of the market doesn't, you should be making financial investments based on that and reaping the reward that comes from that. If you read up on the topic above you'll probably see the folly in that form of thinking.
Feel free to ignore what I say. Continue making claims based on what you think however I'm doubting you have much grounding in Financial reporting requirements of companies let alone the level of market efficiency in Australia. I'm happy to be corrected if you wish to discuss the matter. You would probably laugh if the QANTAS CFO came and started trying to explain how you should fly an approach.. Surely you must realise that you may well not fully understand financial reporting requirements let alone the effect of the information (if any - which in my opinion is NONE - The information is already in QANTAS reports submitted to the ASX) discussed here. If you don't believe me, email the above information to a business / financial reporter at a major media outlet. They would have it all over the news. Of course if they ignore you, you may wish to consider if you are just defaming people behind the safety of anonimity. Accusing company directors / senior management of criminal offences is probably a bad practice to get into.
I suspect you or any other user would not log on here and accuse someone of murder (as you may have a case to answer for legally [granted, I'm no lawyer though!] ) , why then would you log on here and accuse people of serious "white collar crimes" that have significant penalties.
It's (of course and understandable) not considered good form to log on and accuse an operator / pilot of breaching Aviation regs. I'm not sure why you would take offence to someone pointing out that the information has been released. Essentially you are claiming information relavent to the market price has been hidden from the market.
A quote of yours:
Originally Posted by Machinegun Fellatio
Get an MBA and you will see what,to the rest of us, is obvious.
Last edited by Pass-A-Frozo; 22nd Aug 2006 at 13:19.
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P-A-F and "de drei mann"
Packer the younger is not on the QF board for his corporate attributes! Me thinks that he brings with him a certain ability to skew information released to the media as "required".
Packer the younger is not on the QF board for his corporate attributes! Me thinks that he brings with him a certain ability to skew information released to the media as "required".
PAF, you are quite right in theory, but as my brother the magistrate would say when I argue law with him the answer is "Yes, but No".
You are absolutely right when you say information has to be disclosed continuously and that savvy market players internalise this in microseconds into the share price. Thats why there is a hiccup in the oil and gold price every time someone fires a Katyusha at Israel or a whale farts in the Persian gulf. Speculators watch markets everywhere intently and try and get their bids in a few seconds before the rest of the crowd. Its what makes markets work - Continuous reporting and accounting standards are there to provide crystalline transparency so that all punters can have a go.
However, there are three practical matters that can muddy the waters and then things get less transparent very fast.
1. Insider trading. Remember Coles announcement of possible takeover discussions last week? ASIC will be looking very very carefully at transactions surrounding the announcement time because it appears, at least on the surface, that a little bird told somebody something a wee bit too early. This is not relevent to Qantas at the moment, but the next two matters are;
2. Qantas can, in my opinion, quite safely argue that blowing $300 million on refurbishment etc. was not "material' if challenged. By "material", I mean having a discernable effect on QF's accounts. "Materiality" is an accounting concept that allows you to ignore things that are too small to effect the final accounting result or the overal assessment of the operations of the company.
For example, if a Qantas flight loses an engine and the flight continues uneventfully, is it material? Definately not. If CASA investigates and finds the engine failure resulted from ongoing systematic maintenance errors would that be material? You bet.
3. There is also the matter of analytic aviation expertise among stockbrokers. The market is small. I am not aware of any full time Australian aviation stockmarket analyst who would have the forensic and management accounting skills to be able to pierce the Qantas veil and really understand whats happening. QF could probably tell the market anything it likes and it would believe it - they've swallowed "sustainable future", which is BS because if you are not providing the required return on shareholders funds, then the share price falls until you are. (I'll leave out the distinctions between return on funds employed, weighted average cost of capital and so on).
From reading various Pprune posts and harking back to my own days playing with airline numbers, I don't think the market would be pleased if they knew the "true" situation, with players like Jetsar and others "shorn" of cross subsidies and so on.
In other words, QF could go to hell in a handbasket and the last people to know will be the market. The first people to know would be the oil companies.
You are absolutely right when you say information has to be disclosed continuously and that savvy market players internalise this in microseconds into the share price. Thats why there is a hiccup in the oil and gold price every time someone fires a Katyusha at Israel or a whale farts in the Persian gulf. Speculators watch markets everywhere intently and try and get their bids in a few seconds before the rest of the crowd. Its what makes markets work - Continuous reporting and accounting standards are there to provide crystalline transparency so that all punters can have a go.
However, there are three practical matters that can muddy the waters and then things get less transparent very fast.
1. Insider trading. Remember Coles announcement of possible takeover discussions last week? ASIC will be looking very very carefully at transactions surrounding the announcement time because it appears, at least on the surface, that a little bird told somebody something a wee bit too early. This is not relevent to Qantas at the moment, but the next two matters are;
2. Qantas can, in my opinion, quite safely argue that blowing $300 million on refurbishment etc. was not "material' if challenged. By "material", I mean having a discernable effect on QF's accounts. "Materiality" is an accounting concept that allows you to ignore things that are too small to effect the final accounting result or the overal assessment of the operations of the company.
For example, if a Qantas flight loses an engine and the flight continues uneventfully, is it material? Definately not. If CASA investigates and finds the engine failure resulted from ongoing systematic maintenance errors would that be material? You bet.
3. There is also the matter of analytic aviation expertise among stockbrokers. The market is small. I am not aware of any full time Australian aviation stockmarket analyst who would have the forensic and management accounting skills to be able to pierce the Qantas veil and really understand whats happening. QF could probably tell the market anything it likes and it would believe it - they've swallowed "sustainable future", which is BS because if you are not providing the required return on shareholders funds, then the share price falls until you are. (I'll leave out the distinctions between return on funds employed, weighted average cost of capital and so on).
From reading various Pprune posts and harking back to my own days playing with airline numbers, I don't think the market would be pleased if they knew the "true" situation, with players like Jetsar and others "shorn" of cross subsidies and so on.
In other words, QF could go to hell in a handbasket and the last people to know will be the market. The first people to know would be the oil companies.
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Poor Corporate Citizen
Qantas is a particularly nasty corporation.
It has contempt for its customers
It has contempt for its suppliers
It has contempt for its employees.
No wonder people post accusations of white collar crime at Qantas.Many individuals hope that its true and that Dixon and his cronies will be prosecuted.
I repeat that they HOPE that he is guilty.
He is a much despised person.
Some time ago I saw him haranguing staff in Heathrow.Apparently the seats(P/C) he wanted for himself and his wife had been allocated to commercial passengers.The expletives would have made a truck driver blush.Unacceptable behaviour from a captain of industry.
He and Strong are good friends(apparently).Talk about the odd couple
It has contempt for its customers
It has contempt for its suppliers
It has contempt for its employees.
No wonder people post accusations of white collar crime at Qantas.Many individuals hope that its true and that Dixon and his cronies will be prosecuted.
I repeat that they HOPE that he is guilty.
He is a much despised person.
Some time ago I saw him haranguing staff in Heathrow.Apparently the seats(P/C) he wanted for himself and his wife had been allocated to commercial passengers.The expletives would have made a truck driver blush.Unacceptable behaviour from a captain of industry.
He and Strong are good friends(apparently).Talk about the odd couple
Join Date: Feb 2005
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PAF..Confused
PAF you are confusing my posts with Harry Lime`s:he invests in the stockmarket:I don`t
Further taking my posts out of context and posting them to make a point is very naughty
"get an MBA and you will see what to the rest of us is obvious...Qantas is poorly managed"
You left out the last bit ..shame on you.
I commend a book to you:Alistair Mant`s...Intelligent LeaderShip"
I should buy two one for you and one for Dixon.
Don`t make your employees the enemy...collectively they have the capacity to destroy a company and with it the CEO.
Most large corporations bend or break rules/ethics..Qantas is certainly no different.
PAF you appear to be Dixon`s champion.
From your posts you live within the military(I maybe wrong)You are therefore insulated from AWAs and are not subjected to the whims and rantings of someone like Dixon.
Walk a mile in someone elses moccasins before you lecture them.
Further taking my posts out of context and posting them to make a point is very naughty
"get an MBA and you will see what to the rest of us is obvious...Qantas is poorly managed"
You left out the last bit ..shame on you.
I commend a book to you:Alistair Mant`s...Intelligent LeaderShip"
I should buy two one for you and one for Dixon.
Don`t make your employees the enemy...collectively they have the capacity to destroy a company and with it the CEO.
Most large corporations bend or break rules/ethics..Qantas is certainly no different.
PAF you appear to be Dixon`s champion.
From your posts you live within the military(I maybe wrong)You are therefore insulated from AWAs and are not subjected to the whims and rantings of someone like Dixon.
Walk a mile in someone elses moccasins before you lecture them.
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MGF, you're a nuff nuff.. PAF isn't championing GD, he is championing reality. You are sitting behind your keyboard (anonymously of course), making some pretty wild accusations without so much as a shread of evidence. Care to share the evidence which enables you to jump to the conclusion that QANTAS group is cooking its books?
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Gee Thanks Geoff....And your bonus is??
EMPLOYEE CASH BONUS
I am pleased to announce that a cash bonus of A$500 will be paid to staff
from this week. Full details about the payment and eligibility are
provided below.
The Qantas Board approved the payment in recognition of your contribution
to the Group's financial performance which, while below the record profit
for 2004/05, was achieved in an environment of record oil prices and
increased competition.
In the year ahead we will be looking to accelerate our efficiency programs
while maintaining our high standards in employee safety, customer service
and punctuality.
Your support in these endeavours is, as always, appreciated.
Geoff Dixon
Eligibility
The bonus will be paid to employees who meet the following criteria:
Must be employed by Qantas or a wholly-owned subsidiary.
Must have joined the Qantas Group before 1 January 2006.
Must be a permanent or temporary (fixed-term) full-time or part-time
employee. Casual employees that have worked at least 520 hours between 1
January and 30 June 2006 will also be eligible.
Must be employed on the date of payment.
Employees that participate in local incentive performance plans or the
Executive Performance Plan are ineligible.
Payment details
The payment will be paid to the majority of employees on Friday 25 August.
Employees who are on leave and have been paid in advance or are on an
overseas payroll will receive the payment in their next scheduled pay.
Qantas Group Broadcast Message
- Issued by Employee Communication -
I am pleased to announce that a cash bonus of A$500 will be paid to staff
from this week. Full details about the payment and eligibility are
provided below.
The Qantas Board approved the payment in recognition of your contribution
to the Group's financial performance which, while below the record profit
for 2004/05, was achieved in an environment of record oil prices and
increased competition.
In the year ahead we will be looking to accelerate our efficiency programs
while maintaining our high standards in employee safety, customer service
and punctuality.
Your support in these endeavours is, as always, appreciated.
Geoff Dixon
Eligibility
The bonus will be paid to employees who meet the following criteria:
Must be employed by Qantas or a wholly-owned subsidiary.
Must have joined the Qantas Group before 1 January 2006.
Must be a permanent or temporary (fixed-term) full-time or part-time
employee. Casual employees that have worked at least 520 hours between 1
January and 30 June 2006 will also be eligible.
Must be employed on the date of payment.
Employees that participate in local incentive performance plans or the
Executive Performance Plan are ineligible.
Payment details
The payment will be paid to the majority of employees on Friday 25 August.
Employees who are on leave and have been paid in advance or are on an
overseas payroll will receive the payment in their next scheduled pay.
Qantas Group Broadcast Message
- Issued by Employee Communication -
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Interesting Discussion
Now we are getting some where ...some passion.
The story so far....
Dixon has declared war on his employees ...fool
Dixon and his cronies may or may not be doing some clever accounting to shroud their incompetence.
The management is not as transparent in their cost apportioning amongst the Qantas Group as they should be.
PAF will no doubt take issue with most of this and can therefore produce documentation to refute what I have said and substantiate his own view.
I cant find any Qantas documentation that highlights Dixons blunders illustrated in this forum.
BUT...they have occurred.
Little by little they have been exposed in the Fin Review and other media.
Certainly they have been exposed on PPRuNE by those who know.
Yes Yes I know I am being obtuse.
This forum necessitates that because of its nature and administration.
Okay folks ..your turn..show some more passion
BTW what is a "nuff nuff"?
Jargon used by a 26yr old?
The story so far....
Dixon has declared war on his employees ...fool
Dixon and his cronies may or may not be doing some clever accounting to shroud their incompetence.
The management is not as transparent in their cost apportioning amongst the Qantas Group as they should be.
PAF will no doubt take issue with most of this and can therefore produce documentation to refute what I have said and substantiate his own view.
I cant find any Qantas documentation that highlights Dixons blunders illustrated in this forum.
BUT...they have occurred.
Little by little they have been exposed in the Fin Review and other media.
Certainly they have been exposed on PPRuNE by those who know.
Yes Yes I know I am being obtuse.
This forum necessitates that because of its nature and administration.
Okay folks ..your turn..show some more passion
BTW what is a "nuff nuff"?
Jargon used by a 26yr old?
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last year
last year it was $1000 bonus guess times are tough.this comes two days after darth and co wrote an seemingly abusive email about changes needed and if we the employees didnt shape up,out you would go.
also what is $500 after tax to an over paid lame or pilot ? little more than a houso pack of vb twist tops and a cartoon of cigs,
no caviar here darth and co
also what is $500 after tax to an over paid lame or pilot ? little more than a houso pack of vb twist tops and a cartoon of cigs,
no caviar here darth and co
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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While the small dogs bark...the wagon rolls on
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Originally Posted by Machinegun Fellatio
While the small dogs bark...the wagon rolls on