Jetstar Pilots paid 400K per year!!!
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I'm not sure why all the concern about what the general public think. Back in 89 it didn't matter jack sh*t.
Now with eba's or awa's it still doesn't matter a rats what joe public thinks. The public won't be asked to sign off on anything. The two parties involved will.
Spend your energy and money dealing with the Company.
Now with eba's or awa's it still doesn't matter a rats what joe public thinks. The public won't be asked to sign off on anything. The two parties involved will.
Spend your energy and money dealing with the Company.
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Public opinion is very important. In '89 the ability of Hawke, Abeles etc to portray the domestic pilots as greedy and overpaid, allowed them to use the tactics they employed and get away with it. Joe Public, whilst perhaps uneasy about some of the tactics used, went along with it because the pilots were "getting theirs!"
That may be a little more difficult to do in this case, as there is no 29% pay claim being put forward, merely a CPI increase for appropriate offsets. Considering that there is no official dispute yet, one can only wonder why Dixon has come out punching so early?
That may be a little more difficult to do in this case, as there is no 29% pay claim being put forward, merely a CPI increase for appropriate offsets. Considering that there is no official dispute yet, one can only wonder why Dixon has come out punching so early?
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Correct , Cutest_of_Borg.
Let us critically look at some of the differences between what is occuring now and what happened back in '89.
Back in '89 pilots were asking for appx 30% pay rise as an opening gambit claim expecting to haggle back to somewhere around 15% or so ,pay rise in order to claw back what was believed to be some sort of wage parity/catch up.
This time what are they asking for ? CPI with productivity increases! How obscene!
Let me also add ,since privatisation of Qantas back in 1992 the only pay rises Qantas pilots have had, has been the equivalent to CPI over the same time frame.
As far as management mopping the floor with the pilots by portraying them as greedy ,overpaid ,underworked ,tall poppies worthy of cutting down to size ,we shall see. Should not be too hard to paint the obscene largesse of present day management as being nothing more than a Gordon Gekko inspired auction to see who can out bid the other to claim the mantle of "The Millionaires Club " off Macquarie Bank.
Also ,this time around ,the pilots have aligned themselves with the ACTU.
Should not be too hard to work out that when the starter's pistol for the Federal election is fired,the ACTU will be a valuable ally to have during the campaign to discredit John Howard and his WorkChoice legislation.
Let us critically look at some of the differences between what is occuring now and what happened back in '89.
Back in '89 pilots were asking for appx 30% pay rise as an opening gambit claim expecting to haggle back to somewhere around 15% or so ,pay rise in order to claw back what was believed to be some sort of wage parity/catch up.
This time what are they asking for ? CPI with productivity increases! How obscene!
Let me also add ,since privatisation of Qantas back in 1992 the only pay rises Qantas pilots have had, has been the equivalent to CPI over the same time frame.
As far as management mopping the floor with the pilots by portraying them as greedy ,overpaid ,underworked ,tall poppies worthy of cutting down to size ,we shall see. Should not be too hard to paint the obscene largesse of present day management as being nothing more than a Gordon Gekko inspired auction to see who can out bid the other to claim the mantle of "The Millionaires Club " off Macquarie Bank.
Also ,this time around ,the pilots have aligned themselves with the ACTU.
Should not be too hard to work out that when the starter's pistol for the Federal election is fired,the ACTU will be a valuable ally to have during the campaign to discredit John Howard and his WorkChoice legislation.
Last edited by max autobrakes; 18th Aug 2006 at 09:15.
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That is naive in the extreme king oath.
It matters a lot what the public think - even the moronically stupid ones (especially the moronically stupid ones as these are the ones Today Tonight & A Current Affair love interviewing on the street). The media thrive on reporting public opinion and making news of it. Politicians will do almost anything to keep public opinion on their side as it affects their ability to win elections, funnily enough. Public opinion and the reporting of it has changed political decisions literally overnight, and has forced big companies into humiliating backdowns. If you do not have it on your side life becomes very, very difficult.
It matters a lot what the public think - even the moronically stupid ones (especially the moronically stupid ones as these are the ones Today Tonight & A Current Affair love interviewing on the street). The media thrive on reporting public opinion and making news of it. Politicians will do almost anything to keep public opinion on their side as it affects their ability to win elections, funnily enough. Public opinion and the reporting of it has changed political decisions literally overnight, and has forced big companies into humiliating backdowns. If you do not have it on your side life becomes very, very difficult.
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Here's the Jorno's e-mail address if you wish to contact said gentleman and set him straight on the "real" facts.
[email protected]
[email protected]
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CoB, the ability to drive public perception 17 years ago was achieved because half of Ansett was owned by News Ltd..
Darth Dixon has little Jimmy Packer on his board, don’t you see a use for him apart from being a stud for super models, I’m sure Darth does !
Darth Dixon has little Jimmy Packer on his board, don’t you see a use for him apart from being a stud for super models, I’m sure Darth does !
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Grog, of course. That is why he is there. I am not saying AIPA won't be up against it, but if there is a dispute it will be driven from the Company, not the pilots. It won't be over a huge pay claim, just a responsible one.
People who want to see parallels with '89 all the time will have to look elsewhere.
People who want to see parallels with '89 all the time will have to look elsewhere.
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If you are going to contact Rod Myer, then I suggest you keep it factual and unemotional. Win the guy over with logic. Don't have a go at him, he is just the messenger, having obviously been feed complete fiction so far by QF management.
It is important to get guys like Rod Myer on OUR side.
It is important to get guys like Rod Myer on OUR side.
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Ho Ho Kiddies!
Once the media says it, no one bothers to worry about the retraction.
They liked the lie. "Fancy tryin' to tell us they're NOt makin' 500K"
There's only a few of ya, so no one'll worry about ya' ... "Ya all ovepaid and WE don't care about ya!"
There's going to be aother big beaut bunfight and ya gunna lose!
As people have said above... It started insidiously years ago getting the wedge in between you.
Little Jimmy's havin a second go and he knows where they went wrong last time.
START SAVING!!!
Been there done that!
Most of you'll get over it and have a different life than you planned ... some'll find the new one more fun.
The stuff inside the inverted commas is the public's opinion and all the press releases and pamphlets and radio interviews won't make any difference.
Once the media says it, no one bothers to worry about the retraction.
They liked the lie. "Fancy tryin' to tell us they're NOt makin' 500K"
There's only a few of ya, so no one'll worry about ya' ... "Ya all ovepaid and WE don't care about ya!"
There's going to be aother big beaut bunfight and ya gunna lose!
As people have said above... It started insidiously years ago getting the wedge in between you.
Little Jimmy's havin a second go and he knows where they went wrong last time.
START SAVING!!!
Been there done that!
Most of you'll get over it and have a different life than you planned ... some'll find the new one more fun.
The stuff inside the inverted commas is the public's opinion and all the press releases and pamphlets and radio interviews won't make any difference.
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Dear Relic,
Before we give up all vestige of hope let us take a realistic look at what may transpire ,shall we.
Unlike the '89 dispute ,you won't have half as many pilots earning twice as much money come post revolution. Just have a look at the average hours flown by Qantas pilots today as opposed to the average pilots flew 17 years ago. I'd say you might be able to squeeze another 10-15% increase in productivity at best.Which means if the looming pilot shortages are anything to go by ,management will be forced to utilise existing resources to maintain services. So you will be left with appx 3000 odd very happy pilots won't you , NOT!
Then you are faced with the problems that are encountered continuosly by management today, whenever there are downline disruptions ,ie no readily available pilots to manage the disruptions with, since reserve coverage has been cut to the bone in the name of efficency. Just as an aside did you know that you need appx 12% reserve coverage just to cover annual leave ,yet Qantas is presently running at appx 10% reserve coverage or less. Might explain why Qantas pilots have so much leave accrued!.Therefore there won't be the same leverage over the pilots to capitulate, nor the same incentive to work come the supposed inevitable.
What you want me to spend more time away from home for 30% less, hell yes, where do I sign.
So management will be faced with potentially a largely hostile pilot group bearing a sizable grudge wouldn't you say? Very conducive to a happy, productive workforce don't you think?
I would also like to comment on the much maligned and denigrated Longhaul award that is supposedly the root of all Qantas' evils.
The longhaul award was the result of a long and hostile drawn out struggle between the pilots of Australia and airline management teams of the time. The result being strikes in '57 '64 and '66 whereby management finally capitulated and the pilots won the right to introduce the North American Bidding System which was finally negotiated in 1967 by collective bargaining, together with the Government inititive of a Flight Crew Officers Industrial Tribunal.
The result being Qantas enjoying Industrial peace with it's pilots for close on 40 years.In fact the Industrial judges have described AIPA as the quintessential Union.
The sticking point I believe present management find with the Longhaul award is the descriptive nature of said award, in other words the legally binding and descriptive nature of the award gives unscrupulous types no room to "screw" people. This being in response to the belligerent attitudes of management of the time.It's amazing how the more things change the more things stay the same!
In fact the parallels between the then boss of Qantas, C.O. Turner and present day boss Geoff Dixon are uncanny.
To quote from well known Qantas founder ,Hudson Fysh, describing the then Boss of Qantas, C.O. Turner:
" he is completely, absolutely money and power mad... ruthlessly ambitious...flies into a temper...we are poles apart and antagonistic... on the other hand his mind is brilliant"
It is truly amazing how often history repeats itself.
Before we give up all vestige of hope let us take a realistic look at what may transpire ,shall we.
Unlike the '89 dispute ,you won't have half as many pilots earning twice as much money come post revolution. Just have a look at the average hours flown by Qantas pilots today as opposed to the average pilots flew 17 years ago. I'd say you might be able to squeeze another 10-15% increase in productivity at best.Which means if the looming pilot shortages are anything to go by ,management will be forced to utilise existing resources to maintain services. So you will be left with appx 3000 odd very happy pilots won't you , NOT!
Then you are faced with the problems that are encountered continuosly by management today, whenever there are downline disruptions ,ie no readily available pilots to manage the disruptions with, since reserve coverage has been cut to the bone in the name of efficency. Just as an aside did you know that you need appx 12% reserve coverage just to cover annual leave ,yet Qantas is presently running at appx 10% reserve coverage or less. Might explain why Qantas pilots have so much leave accrued!.Therefore there won't be the same leverage over the pilots to capitulate, nor the same incentive to work come the supposed inevitable.
What you want me to spend more time away from home for 30% less, hell yes, where do I sign.
So management will be faced with potentially a largely hostile pilot group bearing a sizable grudge wouldn't you say? Very conducive to a happy, productive workforce don't you think?
I would also like to comment on the much maligned and denigrated Longhaul award that is supposedly the root of all Qantas' evils.
The longhaul award was the result of a long and hostile drawn out struggle between the pilots of Australia and airline management teams of the time. The result being strikes in '57 '64 and '66 whereby management finally capitulated and the pilots won the right to introduce the North American Bidding System which was finally negotiated in 1967 by collective bargaining, together with the Government inititive of a Flight Crew Officers Industrial Tribunal.
The result being Qantas enjoying Industrial peace with it's pilots for close on 40 years.In fact the Industrial judges have described AIPA as the quintessential Union.
The sticking point I believe present management find with the Longhaul award is the descriptive nature of said award, in other words the legally binding and descriptive nature of the award gives unscrupulous types no room to "screw" people. This being in response to the belligerent attitudes of management of the time.It's amazing how the more things change the more things stay the same!
In fact the parallels between the then boss of Qantas, C.O. Turner and present day boss Geoff Dixon are uncanny.
To quote from well known Qantas founder ,Hudson Fysh, describing the then Boss of Qantas, C.O. Turner:
" he is completely, absolutely money and power mad... ruthlessly ambitious...flies into a temper...we are poles apart and antagonistic... on the other hand his mind is brilliant"
It is truly amazing how often history repeats itself.
Last edited by max autobrakes; 20th Aug 2006 at 12:33.
So the rumor that KFC is trying to buy Jetstar isn’t true after all hey. Lucky for the kids at KFC anyway, bad for the J* kids as they get to keep their new found conditions. Apply to KFC for your second job. $400k, yeah right. J* is becoming GA now in the T & C department. 
Maybe they can get more money by selling the 11 Herbs and spices.
Little tip:
paprika
garlic salt
onion salt
oregano
sage
rosemary
thyme
parsley
salt
black pepper
ginger
Maybe they can get more money by selling the 11 Herbs and spices.
Little tip:
paprika
garlic salt
onion salt
oregano
sage
rosemary
thyme
parsley
salt
black pepper
ginger
Last edited by Ejector; 19th Aug 2006 at 12:01.
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From that Age article:
"Jetstar International pilots earn around $100,000 a year less than their Qantas counterparts and work up to 200 hours a year more."
???!!!!
Can that be right?
"Jetstar International pilots earn around $100,000 a year less than their Qantas counterparts and work up to 200 hours a year more."
???!!!!
Can that be right?