Jetstar pilots will have time to reflect
Ejector, UNOME et al get paid the same as everyone else- what was on offer at the time. If they and everyone else had rejected the deal they are currently on, it would have been improved-but they took it. I guess that means that unless they are the best paid aviators in the world, they must be an anagram of CABS, no?
Originally Posted by Keg
If they'd joined forces instead of trying to go it alone perhaps they could have got a better deal!
!
!
Why on earth didn't AIPA just join with them then?? That decision still bewilders me to this day!!
Ejector you are not alone in your frustration of the whole way this thing has panned out. Going through GA is not going to be worth soon because it has basically turned into airlines. And unlike other parts of the world LCC here ARE THE END OF THE ROAD, whereas in Europe people move onto bigger and better things after a few years in a LCC.
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You are tnunig tihs trehad into a joke
How many threads here have been devoted to denigrating what the JPC did what it thought was in the interests of its members? AIPA mighn't like it. Qantas pilots mightn't like it. All kinds of pilots mightn't like it but obviously quite a few are in favour of the negotiated deal. They did what was best for them, as do members of other unions including AIPA. Surely it's time to get over it? The deal is done, and the horse has been flogged. How much longer are people going to bang on about it?
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Frozo, by your comments, I would guess you are a Jetstar Pilot, uneducated in international operations and stars in your eyes at the excitement of flying a big jet across the pacific. You can argue your point all you like, but if you think you are going to have some sort of fantastic lifestyle on what the JPC has accepted, you are mistaken. I'm with Ejector. Love to see if you've got the same fight in you in 12 months time.
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Originally Posted by whosyourdaddy
Frozo, by your comments, I would guess you are a Jetstar Pilot, uneducated in international operations and stars in your eyes at the excitement of flying a big jet across the pacific. You can argue your point all you like, but if you think you are going to have some sort of fantastic lifestyle on what the JPC has accepted, you are mistaken. I'm with Ejector. Love to see if you've got the same fight in you in 12 months time.
I'd guess you are uneducated..... just uneducated...
I will argue my point all I like. You know why?? I think this way.. and what bugs you is there are hundreds of pilots who took the pay deal you don't like that agree with me. They just won't bother argueing with you. They report to another boss.... their families ! I don't think that their wives are really concerned what you think. Unfortunately you need to realise that if other people accept a certain salary, they really don't care what you think.
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whosyourdaddy is certainly a case in point for how somebody's opinions can change in 12 months time. He's changed his tune from August last year!
So, upstarts, stop the whinging, show some respect for your employer, take some pride in making yourself a better person/pilot, learn from the experience and get over it. You won't be there long and YOU for one will be a lot better off.
Thread Starter
When I started my PPL with the intention of following it through as a future there was light at the end of the tunnel as a rewarding career. At the end of the day, that light is disappearing fast. Froza, you seem to think I would work for Jetstar as it is a step up. I agree a wide body is. No I wouldn’t work for them, nor have I even applied for Dash-8, Saab and metro companies that require you to pay for your training. I am not and will not touch that subject here. The Jetstar A330 wages are a black light my friend, in my opinion, barley more than a candle flicker, at the mercy of a puff of wind, not the good light to aim at in the GA the tunnel.
I need lube daily in GA, seems like some enjoyed the GA enema just too much and desired to bring flying a A330 long haul to the same level. At least on $40k on a Baron, I can sleep, knowing I am not trying to justify my decision to my peers. Sure I wish I was paid more, but that’s the typical going rate for a baron. Jetstar does not offer the typical going rate. I know a PA31 company that pilots work for less than the average, below GA award and thus directly makes companies that pay it directly suffer. I see no difference, just on a larger scale. You seemed so interested to what my salary was, chances are if you were on a B58 flogging around the boonies, you have set the precedent that you would be happy on half that just for the hours and I would be unemployed as my boss couldn’t compete to scab labor companies.
Froza, it’s your right to justify your position you took to your self and family, just never complain to me. You wont get an ear.
I need lube daily in GA, seems like some enjoyed the GA enema just too much and desired to bring flying a A330 long haul to the same level. At least on $40k on a Baron, I can sleep, knowing I am not trying to justify my decision to my peers. Sure I wish I was paid more, but that’s the typical going rate for a baron. Jetstar does not offer the typical going rate. I know a PA31 company that pilots work for less than the average, below GA award and thus directly makes companies that pay it directly suffer. I see no difference, just on a larger scale. You seemed so interested to what my salary was, chances are if you were on a B58 flogging around the boonies, you have set the precedent that you would be happy on half that just for the hours and I would be unemployed as my boss couldn’t compete to scab labor companies.
Froza, it’s your right to justify your position you took to your self and family, just never complain to me. You wont get an ear.
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Frozo. "How's your salary in real terms UNOME compared to what the 89'ers were asking?? ?Have you undercut them?"[/quote]
Nope. I was (and still am) working for the same Airline I joined long before '89 therefore, unlike you Sir, I am not undercutting anyone.
Nope. I was (and still am) working for the same Airline I joined long before '89 therefore, unlike you Sir, I am not undercutting anyone.
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to quote from neville_nobody's post
"Yeah well that tried that from day one but a certain union knocked them back.
Why on earth didn't AIPA just join with them then?? That decision still bewilders me to this day!! "
I agree.
Guess who the President of "that" union was who told a group of concerned chaps from Impulse to get stuffed, not interested ,and the result was the impetus to set up the IPC which is now the JPC,( JetStar pilots council.) [I've spoken with the chap who was there and he swears on a stack of bibles as to the veracity of this statement to me.]
Yep you guessed it, the President at the time is the same fellow who believes it's good to be King.
Might also explain a few thing like this same fellow set up Australian Airlines and is now using that as a tool to cause anal trauma to pilots.
This same chap also conned a pay freeze out of the pilots one EBA whilst president.Then again I suppose being King is better than being a mere President.
All a bit too insidious for my liking.
"Yeah well that tried that from day one but a certain union knocked them back.
Why on earth didn't AIPA just join with them then?? That decision still bewilders me to this day!! "
I agree.
Guess who the President of "that" union was who told a group of concerned chaps from Impulse to get stuffed, not interested ,and the result was the impetus to set up the IPC which is now the JPC,( JetStar pilots council.) [I've spoken with the chap who was there and he swears on a stack of bibles as to the veracity of this statement to me.]
Yep you guessed it, the President at the time is the same fellow who believes it's good to be King.
Might also explain a few thing like this same fellow set up Australian Airlines and is now using that as a tool to cause anal trauma to pilots.
This same chap also conned a pay freeze out of the pilots one EBA whilst president.Then again I suppose being King is better than being a mere President.
All a bit too insidious for my liking.
Hands up all those that think their level of personal happiness/satisfaction is dependent on how much money they earn.
Seriously, this is not a wind up. Please come forward and make the explicit statement. Something like: "I believe I would be more happy and/or satisfied in my life if I was paid more money". Or something to that effect.
Almost all the QF pilots that have attacked the Jetstar pilots for accepting their EBA should be coming forward - let's see it!
Ejector should be coming forward too, as he is bitter that the Jetstar pilots have condemned him to a poorly paid future.
Oh, and don't try to say that the Jetstar EBA attacks were about terms and conditions in general and not just salary because I won't believe you. Go back over all the threads that have come up on this subject and you will agree with me that 90% of the references to it were about salary only.
Seriously, this is not a wind up. Please come forward and make the explicit statement. Something like: "I believe I would be more happy and/or satisfied in my life if I was paid more money". Or something to that effect.
Almost all the QF pilots that have attacked the Jetstar pilots for accepting their EBA should be coming forward - let's see it!
Ejector should be coming forward too, as he is bitter that the Jetstar pilots have condemned him to a poorly paid future.
Oh, and don't try to say that the Jetstar EBA attacks were about terms and conditions in general and not just salary because I won't believe you. Go back over all the threads that have come up on this subject and you will agree with me that 90% of the references to it were about salary only.
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Hmm.. UNOME, who am I undercutting??
Ejector: I think you missed my point What is your salary is a rhetorical question used to emphasize my point. It doesn't matter what salary others think you should earn. It matter what you want to work for. You sound happy with your decisions, stop abusing other people for theirs.
Ejector: I think you missed my point What is your salary is a rhetorical question used to emphasize my point. It doesn't matter what salary others think you should earn. It matter what you want to work for. You sound happy with your decisions, stop abusing other people for theirs.
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ME work at company where average salary is 50K
ME work at company where ave. driver has 3,500TT, 1,500Multi, 500Multi Command Turbine
ME work at company that generally treats us all pretty OK
ME works at company where most reckon a job at jetstar 2 years ago was a great gig - sure, electrician wages = FO & Capt = electrician + lots of over-time, but home every night.
ME works at a company where everyone reckons that an extra 10% (or whatever the insult actually is?) 'aint gonna cover multiple divorces over the next 20 yrs 'cause you are never home?
ME works at the same company where everyone(????) reckons they won't apply to Jetstar because they know they will will be posted Intl because they current crews would not be stupid enough to leave Domestic?
Me reckons that 10% will still apply and ME thinks they can have it.
ME is sad because ME thought a couple of years ago that it would be a great organisation to be a part of.
ME not gonna gonna apply - where are all the drivers gonna come from???????????
ME work at company where ave. driver has 3,500TT, 1,500Multi, 500Multi Command Turbine
ME work at company that generally treats us all pretty OK
ME works at company where most reckon a job at jetstar 2 years ago was a great gig - sure, electrician wages = FO & Capt = electrician + lots of over-time, but home every night.
ME works at a company where everyone reckons that an extra 10% (or whatever the insult actually is?) 'aint gonna cover multiple divorces over the next 20 yrs 'cause you are never home?
ME works at the same company where everyone(????) reckons they won't apply to Jetstar because they know they will will be posted Intl because they current crews would not be stupid enough to leave Domestic?
Me reckons that 10% will still apply and ME thinks they can have it.
ME is sad because ME thought a couple of years ago that it would be a great organisation to be a part of.
ME not gonna gonna apply - where are all the drivers gonna come from???????????
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Aircraft,
I think you will find lots of reasons on what constitutes satisfaction.
Some just like flying, some like the money, some like the lifestyle, some might even like the way they look in a uniform. For most it is some kind of combination of these (maybe not the uniform) and other things.
When you spend tens of thousands getting the basic requirements. When you spend years getting the experience. When your licence is at constant risk. When you deal with complex equipment, technology, weather, ATC, language, foreign facilities, etc etc etc. When you spend 1/3 of your life away from family.
When you do all this, you expect an adequate remuneration AND terms and conditions.
You could probably trade a bit of T&C for a bit more money, you could probably trade money for better T&C.
But you wouldn't trade both for nothing.
Get it!
I think you will find lots of reasons on what constitutes satisfaction.
Some just like flying, some like the money, some like the lifestyle, some might even like the way they look in a uniform. For most it is some kind of combination of these (maybe not the uniform) and other things.
When you spend tens of thousands getting the basic requirements. When you spend years getting the experience. When your licence is at constant risk. When you deal with complex equipment, technology, weather, ATC, language, foreign facilities, etc etc etc. When you spend 1/3 of your life away from family.
When you do all this, you expect an adequate remuneration AND terms and conditions.
You could probably trade a bit of T&C for a bit more money, you could probably trade money for better T&C.
But you wouldn't trade both for nothing.
Get it!
Thread Starter
I can and will abuse ScabStar A330 pilots as much as I want because they deserve it. 
The same as the initial B1900 pilots for Impulse that lead the way in degrading Regional turbo props in Australia many years ago, long haul is now up the creek too. Your buddies have the honor to be remembered with them. But it’s a democracy, U can do what ever you want and be labeled how ever you want. I really don’t care deep down, the tide has fully turned and it’s over in Australia for long haul pilots.
Maybe I should go and offer my self for $20k so I can get more hours and subsidize the company, and maybe enable them to gain contracts from the opposition by under cutting them and make a basing on the coast and base a KingAir there which would be nice and stay on $20k for turbine time and oh, but then I would be a scab. Awfully similar.
Go all the way spewStar, Why don't you work for free for the first month.
The same as the initial B1900 pilots for Impulse that lead the way in degrading Regional turbo props in Australia many years ago, long haul is now up the creek too. Your buddies have the honor to be remembered with them. But it’s a democracy, U can do what ever you want and be labeled how ever you want. I really don’t care deep down, the tide has fully turned and it’s over in Australia for long haul pilots.
Maybe I should go and offer my self for $20k so I can get more hours and subsidize the company, and maybe enable them to gain contracts from the opposition by under cutting them and make a basing on the coast and base a KingAir there which would be nice and stay on $20k for turbine time and oh, but then I would be a scab. Awfully similar.
Go all the way spewStar, Why don't you work for free for the first month.
Originally Posted by Ejector
Go all the way spewStar, Why don't you work for free for the first month.
The VB & J* pilots now pay for an endorsement and support themselves whilst going through their initial training. In effect, working for the first 6 months for free.
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No, No Frozo. I see the fight is still there. What I said was, lets see if you feel, what you consider to be an appropriate level of pay and conditions to be the same in 12 months time. I'd be frightened too if I was you. You see, at the end of the day, it's about when you are able to put your feet up and give it all away.
Currently for me, I'd guess it's 60. Thanks to the JPC, you're already somewhere between 65 and 70.(as a general rule of course). Don't suppose you'd looked at it that way.
Currently for me, I'd guess it's 60. Thanks to the JPC, you're already somewhere between 65 and 70.(as a general rule of course). Don't suppose you'd looked at it that way.
How about the guys attacking PAF for being part of the merry band of JetStar pilots go back & read the thread from the beginning. I'm not defending his statements/argument (far from it - a bit too much playing as the Devil's advocate I feel!), but please read the previous posts so that you can get back to the central argument - rather than trying to play the man, who isn't actually the man playing on the side that you may think - it's all there in black & white (or do JetStar have Flight Lieutenants instead of F/O's these days...?) 
com·pre·hen·sion (kŏm'prĭ-hĕn'shən) pronunciation
n.
1. The act or fact of grasping the meaning, nature, or importance of; understanding.
2. The knowledge that is acquired in this way.
3. Capacity to include.
4. Logic. The sum of meanings and corresponding implications inherent in a term.
[Middle English comprehensioun, from Latin comprehēnsiō, comprehēnsiōn-, from comprehēnsus, past participle of comprehendere, to comprehend. See comprehend.]
com·pre·hen·sion (kŏm'prĭ-hĕn'shən) pronunciation
n.
1. The act or fact of grasping the meaning, nature, or importance of; understanding.
2. The knowledge that is acquired in this way.
3. Capacity to include.
4. Logic. The sum of meanings and corresponding implications inherent in a term.
[Middle English comprehensioun, from Latin comprehēnsiō, comprehēnsiōn-, from comprehēnsus, past participle of comprehendere, to comprehend. See comprehend.]
Nunc est bibendum
Originally Posted by Johhny Utah
(or do JetStar have Flight Lieutenants instead of F/O's these days...?)