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There is a place for electronic manuals!
If I carried every manual we have in my nav bag there would be no room for newspapers etc.
Whilst I prefer paper coppies to study from, I would love to see you and your manual wrting mates arrive in the 21st century and issue both. Jeeez it must be easy and cheap to issue an electronic copy to who ever wants one, starting with me.
If I carried every manual we have in my nav bag there would be no room for newspapers etc.
Whilst I prefer paper coppies to study from, I would love to see you and your manual wrting mates arrive in the 21st century and issue both. Jeeez it must be easy and cheap to issue an electronic copy to who ever wants one, starting with me.
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Sorry, I am easily confused 
Could a Jet* pilot please confirm that the OPs manuals are provided in print form, on paper, and presumably in a lovely Jet* binder, free of charge
and that the company is charging a nominal fee if you want the manuals in computer disc format, and if so............................
What the
are these w@nkers on about
I carry all the manuals in my nav bag, on CD, but have found they are very difficult to read, especially in bad light or an emergency
Could a Jet* pilot please confirm that the OPs manuals are provided in print form, on paper, and presumably in a lovely Jet* binder, free of charge
and that the company is charging a nominal fee if you want the manuals in computer disc format, and if so............................
What the
are these w@nkers on about I carry all the manuals in my nav bag, on CD, but have found they are very difficult to read, especially in bad light or an emergency
Hey CAPT BLOGGS,
What specifically do you mean by "considering the safety record of your outfit." Surely you are not criticising a perfect safety record. What accidents have KA had? None that I know of.
And mate having flown for "your outfit" for years I can tell you which one has the higher standard, and it ain't yours. The standard here is enormously high, the standard at your mob is at best, good. Whilst the large majority of the pilots I flew with in your outfit were great, there were far too many donkeys with no freakin idea for my liking.
But could you please just answer the question of the KA safety record.
Thanks
What specifically do you mean by "considering the safety record of your outfit." Surely you are not criticising a perfect safety record. What accidents have KA had? None that I know of.
And mate having flown for "your outfit" for years I can tell you which one has the higher standard, and it ain't yours. The standard here is enormously high, the standard at your mob is at best, good. Whilst the large majority of the pilots I flew with in your outfit were great, there were far too many donkeys with no freakin idea for my liking.
But could you please just answer the question of the KA safety record.
Thanks
Trev,
Sorry. I was thinking of KE. I'm the Eor. My position on electronic manuals still stands though.
Renurp,
I'll work on it. There is a complete set in the ship's library, you know! And you only have to carry the newspaper under your arm from the standby desk, after all...
Crews having to pay ANY money for ops manuals (paper or CD) really is cheap. "Hey Admiral! I have an idea!".
Edit: I just remembered I have asked previously for our manuals to be provided on CD. No response from the bridge.
Sorry. I was thinking of KE. I'm the Eor. My position on electronic manuals still stands though.
Renurp,
I'll work on it. There is a complete set in the ship's library, you know! And you only have to carry the newspaper under your arm from the standby desk, after all...
Crews having to pay ANY money for ops manuals (paper or CD) really is cheap. "Hey Admiral! I have an idea!".
Edit: I just remembered I have asked previously for our manuals to be provided on CD. No response from the bridge.
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 3rd Jul 2006 at 23:08.
short flights long nights
so what is the real story?
Dear Cap'n Bloggs,
Thank you for your apology. Let me say that you at least were NOT one of the donkeys I was talking about that I flew with. Speaking of donkeys - how is the Admiral coping - still hanging in there?
Trev
Thank you for your apology. Let me say that you at least were NOT one of the donkeys I was talking about that I flew with. Speaking of donkeys - how is the Admiral coping - still hanging in there?
Trev
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If (and I concede there are mixed messages/facts/assumptions in some of these posts) JQ pilots had to fork out for their manuals, it seems to me to be highly unlikely that JQ would be complying with the intent of CASA regulations in respect of providing FCOM info to pilots.
Also, it's not as simple as just chucking the book onto a CDROM.
Unfortunately I know for a fact (from personal conversations with the people involved) that CASA are lagging way behind in clarifying the regulations and ensuring compliance in this area as we proceed into the electronic world, and at the current moment in time, they seem to have too many other things on their plate.
Also, it's not as simple as just chucking the book onto a CDROM.
Unfortunately I know for a fact (from personal conversations with the people involved) that CASA are lagging way behind in clarifying the regulations and ensuring compliance in this area as we proceed into the electronic world, and at the current moment in time, they seem to have too many other things on their plate.
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Thats alright, ignore me, see if I care 
If Jet* provide a copy of the manual in print form and Pilots decide they need one in another format, what is the big deal of charging for the other
This thread was started on the premise that Jet* pilots had to pay for their ops manual, period, which turns out to be complete BS.
Big Trev, man I am hearin' ya
...............not sure I agree with the bit about Bloggsy tho In any other outfit, the Admiral would be lucky to have a position cleaning an Ensign's boots.
( yes I am joking bloggs )
If Jet* provide a copy of the manual in print form and Pilots decide they need one in another format, what is the big deal of charging for the other
This thread was started on the premise that Jet* pilots had to pay for their ops manual, period, which turns out to be complete BS.
Big Trev, man I am hearin' ya
...............not sure I agree with the bit about Bloggsy tho In any other outfit, the Admiral would be lucky to have a position cleaning an Ensign's boots.( yes I am joking bloggs )
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why isn't jetstar charging pilots for jet a1? if you think about it, the pilots are benefitting by burning this fuel because they get to stay airborne and not crash. why not charge them for engine oil and hydraulic fluid while we're at it??
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Just so you know, the Air NZ A320 fleet (oops I mean Zeal 320) do not issue paper manuals. FComs, QRH etc all only on CD-Rom in PDF format.
Freedom (oops I mean Zeal320) pilots are currently persuing the company over the clause in their contract that says all company required documentation must be issued "in writing" to find out whether a CD is acceptable. It may come down to a legal opinion.
Some pilots are happy with CDs, others prefer paper. I fall into the latter category, so maybe I'm old fashioned. Funnily enough, Standards and Training pilots appear to get paper manuals, but maybe it's more important for them to know and learn and remember stuff!!
Apparently (and I stand to be corrected here) Airbus will cease producing manuals in paper format in 2010, going over to fully electronic. I suppose that includes in the flight deck too. Hope they come up with something a bit more interactive than PDF!
Of course, the company provides a computer for you to read your CD at home, plus an IT allowance for computer upkeep...yeah, right!!
I miss my bedtime reading of the QRH
Freedom (oops I mean Zeal320) pilots are currently persuing the company over the clause in their contract that says all company required documentation must be issued "in writing" to find out whether a CD is acceptable. It may come down to a legal opinion.
Some pilots are happy with CDs, others prefer paper. I fall into the latter category, so maybe I'm old fashioned. Funnily enough, Standards and Training pilots appear to get paper manuals, but maybe it's more important for them to know and learn and remember stuff!!
Apparently (and I stand to be corrected here) Airbus will cease producing manuals in paper format in 2010, going over to fully electronic. I suppose that includes in the flight deck too. Hope they come up with something a bit more interactive than PDF!
Of course, the company provides a computer for you to read your CD at home, plus an IT allowance for computer upkeep...yeah, right!!
I miss my bedtime reading of the QRH
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No matter what you guys are paying for manuals, you will always be a laughing stock. You made sure of that when you negotiated your wide body contract and set back pay and work conditions for Proffessional pilots decades. Blooody narrow sighted guys!
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I'm not going to start bashing any particular pilot group, but Shockwave could you just enlighten us all as to:
a) who started " paying for endorsements " ( jet/airline ) in Oz ?
b) who started flying similar a/c to the opposition for around 30% less ?
c) who started " paying for endorsements " whilst having been employed by the company they are with for up to 15 years ?
Whilst it could be argued that the above mentioned groups had their reasons I think you will find that Jetstar is not the answer to any of the above, and they are not the group with the worst jet pay and conditions in Oz, BTW.
a) who started " paying for endorsements " ( jet/airline ) in Oz ?
b) who started flying similar a/c to the opposition for around 30% less ?
c) who started " paying for endorsements " whilst having been employed by the company they are with for up to 15 years ?
Whilst it could be argued that the above mentioned groups had their reasons I think you will find that Jetstar is not the answer to any of the above, and they are not the group with the worst jet pay and conditions in Oz, BTW.