Airbus may offer Qantas a stop-gap
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If something's tacked on to another product at a very low price, then of course it's going to be cost-effective.
Porsches... I thought Beemers were the chariot of choice?
I've been trying to think about the economics of all this. Let's assume (for ease) that a 330 (of whatever variant) has roughly half the payload (both self- and non-self-loading freight) of a 380. Then you'd need two 330s to compensate for the uplift capability of a 380 - so Airbus give QF two 330s for each delayed 380.
But, the 380 has a longer range than any 330 variant; so there are extra costs there. Then there's probably more than double crew (due to extra duty hours due to extra time to do the same run) and things like double the airways charges (plus the required extra slot costs). Any ETOPS issues as well (as 380s were going to do LAX - are QF 330s ETOPS?)? Plus the extra maint costs of the extra airframes...
This has the potential to get very messy. I can't see it not involving some litigation (and hence still more cost) at some point.
Moreover, where will all these extra airframes come from? QF isn't the only carrier to be breathing fire to Airbus; they can't just conjure up a bunch of 330s from thin air (without pi55ing off the recipients of the 330s already in production). Or are there a load of 330s in the desert?
Would actually seem like a good opportunity to ship a few 340s out and see if any stick...
Porsches... I thought Beemers were the chariot of choice?
I've been trying to think about the economics of all this. Let's assume (for ease) that a 330 (of whatever variant) has roughly half the payload (both self- and non-self-loading freight) of a 380. Then you'd need two 330s to compensate for the uplift capability of a 380 - so Airbus give QF two 330s for each delayed 380.
But, the 380 has a longer range than any 330 variant; so there are extra costs there. Then there's probably more than double crew (due to extra duty hours due to extra time to do the same run) and things like double the airways charges (plus the required extra slot costs). Any ETOPS issues as well (as 380s were going to do LAX - are QF 330s ETOPS?)? Plus the extra maint costs of the extra airframes...
This has the potential to get very messy. I can't see it not involving some litigation (and hence still more cost) at some point.
Moreover, where will all these extra airframes come from? QF isn't the only carrier to be breathing fire to Airbus; they can't just conjure up a bunch of 330s from thin air (without pi55ing off the recipients of the 330s already in production). Or are there a load of 330s in the desert?
Would actually seem like a good opportunity to ship a few 340s out and see if any stick...
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i believe airbus and qantas were deep in disscussion's yesterday at QCA CENTRAL -and both parties came to an agreement that airbus will lease 12-15 ex AIR INDIA JT9-7F POWERED B747-100 AIRCRAFT CURRENTLY IN STORAGE AND AWAITING DISPOSAL IN A BOMBAY hangar- free of charge- to cover the short term delay of the introduction of the A380.
GD IS VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.
GD IS VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.
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Thats right about the ex-Air India 747's and they come with the original crew meals still on board and better still they come with a lowerlobe galley...ahhh the good old days and better still they don't have any IFE sytems that we have to apologise for when they ineviteably break down...
Darth is also getting some 707's from various museums around the world with the RAAF providing in flight refuelling courtesy of Johnny as a payback for Darth helping with the IR concept.
As long as they are not made in France any aircraft is a good idea....
Darth is also getting some 707's from various museums around the world with the RAAF providing in flight refuelling courtesy of Johnny as a payback for Darth helping with the IR concept.
As long as they are not made in France any aircraft is a good idea....
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Dear International Hog Driver,
If you don't work for Qantas how come you peddle common Qf misconceptions?
EG:
Really? I always thought the main issue with the 332 was the distance betwen doors 1 and 2 and the galley position not the floor strength?
BHM Victim,
Oh yes, of course I forgot, a CEO is supposed to be nice to people and forget about the bottom line..just so long as people don't have to accept change. Forget about the fact that Qf international would make more money by shutting shop, selling all their assets, and investing the proceeds on the money market. Just so long as people don't have to accept change.
But of course your argument is that the current management doesn't know anything about running airlines and you do..right?
speedbirdhouse,
Really? I guess the second meal service served on SYD-PEK-SYD and BOM-SYD materialises from thin air?
You guys break me up.
Well excuse me speedbirdhouse, but by your name neither do you. Actually, I would say that self-interest would characterize most of those whinging about having to change. Silly me, I always thought a CEO was paid to provide value to shareholders, not merely to provide comfortable lives to employees...guess I was misguided.
Dear Woomera (Eastern States),
Yesterday you rightly pinged me for being less than polite to posters. It was incorrect of me to use intemperate language and I apologise to all.
I would suggest that intemperate language, whilst inexcusable, is less wounding or damaging than malicious, barely disguised lies about real, hard-working people which sometimes, unfortunately, also appear in these pages. It would be appreciated if you could continue to apply your high standards in those areas also.
Yours sincerely,
Lucius Vorenus
If you don't work for Qantas how come you peddle common Qf misconceptions?
EG:
332’s with long range and light weight floor beams so you cant put the current heavy weight premium class seats in.
BHM Victim,
Clear alright! Use any excuse at hand to screw employees at every given opportunity!
But of course your argument is that the current management doesn't know anything about running airlines and you do..right?
speedbirdhouse,
QF in it's "wisdom" elected to hobble what is, after all, a long range aircraft by only giving it enough galley space for ONE meal service.
You guys break me up.
dick'son doesn't give a f@#k obout Qantas or it's future.
Dear Woomera (Eastern States),
Yesterday you rightly pinged me for being less than polite to posters. It was incorrect of me to use intemperate language and I apologise to all.
I would suggest that intemperate language, whilst inexcusable, is less wounding or damaging than malicious, barely disguised lies about real, hard-working people which sometimes, unfortunately, also appear in these pages. It would be appreciated if you could continue to apply your high standards in those areas also.
Yours sincerely,
Lucius Vorenus
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LV,
your ignorance of the problems with the A330 order suggests that you must be senior QF management or perhaps a board member.
AUD $100 million was spent converting the initial BRAND NEW A330s so that they could be used for the LONG RANGE ops for which they were designed.
QF bought them to be used between SYD, MEL and BNE despite the fact that no one else in the world operates this aircraft in this fashion.
It is after all a long range aircraft.
The bean counters held sway as an extra row of seats could be fitted with only the shorthaul ops galleys.
QF couldn't make them work for shorthaul ops and $100 million was spent on the refit.
The money squandered because of dixon's ineptitude.
Never mind.
Lets just sack a few more staff or send a few more jobs offshore.
your ignorance of the problems with the A330 order suggests that you must be senior QF management or perhaps a board member.
AUD $100 million was spent converting the initial BRAND NEW A330s so that they could be used for the LONG RANGE ops for which they were designed.
QF bought them to be used between SYD, MEL and BNE despite the fact that no one else in the world operates this aircraft in this fashion.
It is after all a long range aircraft.
The bean counters held sway as an extra row of seats could be fitted with only the shorthaul ops galleys.
QF couldn't make them work for shorthaul ops and $100 million was spent on the refit.
The money squandered because of dixon's ineptitude.
Never mind.
Lets just sack a few more staff or send a few more jobs offshore.
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It’s funny but the only ones who are supporting the A-330 purchase are the ones in management who had something to do with it’s selection.If the airbus actually lived up to the claimed performance figures of it’s maker then it might be another story.
As far as the line that the only problem was the distance between doors 1 and 2 is a joke.Is our latin poster telling us that the floor would have been strong enough for our J/C sleeper seats if the doors had been made closer together.I’m sure an aircraft manufacturer would ask so how heavy are your seats and we’ll work out where to put the doors.
The truth is that the 330 was ordered with light weight floors that were not strong enough for our requirements and that is not being malicious just informing others about a poor decision made by lightweight managers ......Perhaps you know them vesuvius.
As far as any statements about our illustrious leader Darth and his abilities are concerned ,there are very few people supporting his management style and resulting damage to the share price .It is all too easy to slash and burn,it really does not take any inherent skill just a lack of feeling for the people that really keep the company going. It would however take skill and business acumen to develop new products and destinations to lead QF into the future , something that has been lacking for some time.
Quote from Vesuvius Ignoramous “Silly me, I always thought a CEO was paid to provide value to shareholders,”
If our share price under the leadership of Darth drops any further then he might not have any shareholders he has to listen to and provide value for and if you think about it maybe that is exactly what Julius Dixon wants.....no one to answer to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the amount of people selling qantas shares continues and therefore our share price goes south any further as well as our credit rating you will have to pay people to buy our shares and we will not have the ability to borrow money for a photo copier let alone new aircraft...
As far as the line that the only problem was the distance between doors 1 and 2 is a joke.Is our latin poster telling us that the floor would have been strong enough for our J/C sleeper seats if the doors had been made closer together.I’m sure an aircraft manufacturer would ask so how heavy are your seats and we’ll work out where to put the doors.
The truth is that the 330 was ordered with light weight floors that were not strong enough for our requirements and that is not being malicious just informing others about a poor decision made by lightweight managers ......Perhaps you know them vesuvius.
As far as any statements about our illustrious leader Darth and his abilities are concerned ,there are very few people supporting his management style and resulting damage to the share price .It is all too easy to slash and burn,it really does not take any inherent skill just a lack of feeling for the people that really keep the company going. It would however take skill and business acumen to develop new products and destinations to lead QF into the future , something that has been lacking for some time.
Quote from Vesuvius Ignoramous “Silly me, I always thought a CEO was paid to provide value to shareholders,”
If our share price under the leadership of Darth drops any further then he might not have any shareholders he has to listen to and provide value for and if you think about it maybe that is exactly what Julius Dixon wants.....no one to answer to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the amount of people selling qantas shares continues and therefore our share price goes south any further as well as our credit rating you will have to pay people to buy our shares and we will not have the ability to borrow money for a photo copier let alone new aircraft...
Last edited by lowerlobe; 24th Jun 2006 at 04:59.
Continental-520
That's why I said:
but I would've thought someone with your closeness to the int'l airline industry would've realised that staff redundancies are just one of many tactics that airlines such as BA have employed in order to cut operating costs
To a very large extent it was through staff redundancies
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Originally Posted by lowerlobe
The truth is that the 330 was ordered with light weight floors that were not strong enough for our requirements and that is not being malicious just informing others about a poor decision made by lightweight managers perhaps you know them vesuvius.
The staff need some decent leadership to rally behind instead of doom and gloom - tell us how we can make a difference, don't just sack us.
Don't just call for VRs - all they do is get rid of your good people, people who take packages are ones who don't think they'll have problems finding another job. Weed out the deadwood, by all means cut surplus, but resource the areas that need it correctly.
If you have delays due to no gate staff, hire more, if you cancel a flight because no FAs will work their day off, hire more.
Conversely if you have a pile of staff on reserve/blanks lines/sitting around - prune them, but do it intelligently, get rid of the ones who don't bring value to the company.
At the same time, provide the resources for people to do their jobs, no good having engineers with no parts, rampies with no tugs (although rampies with no tugs is safer), no checkin stations, not enough screening points etc.
Fuel has gone up, as has been pointed out, contractors don't sack the brickies when the price of bricks go up, put the fares up - like it or not there ain't mcuh competition domestically, put the fares up, Virgin will follow because their fuel problem is worse.
Why don't these managers see this stuff. (and why do we pay them $6m to not see it!!)
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Come on Lucius you can do better than that! 
Go for the trifecta
Lowerlobe has more of an idea.
You on the other hand simply dont.
Quote
"If you don't work for Qantas how come you peddle common Qf misconceptions?"
Let me help you out with a correction to your statement here you should have said.
" I work for Qantas on the upper floors of Coward St and I am full of common Qf misconceptions?"
Hence I cant find my
if its on fire with both hands!
Finally this gem....
"Silly me, I always thought a CEO was paid to provide value to shareholders"
You crack me up, i nearly snorted what I was drinking and sprayed the kids with this one.
Just what planet do you come from? I think lowerlobe, the pimp and the soldier all have come pretty close to nailing you, just stick to dreaming, yes men, and destroying a company that was once the global industry benchmark.
Its not that far away from BBB- and then i am sure that you will pull the cord on a golden parachute.
Thankfully i dont work for QF
Go for the trifecta
Lowerlobe has more of an idea.
You on the other hand simply dont.
Quote
"If you don't work for Qantas how come you peddle common Qf misconceptions?"
Let me help you out with a correction to your statement here you should have said.
" I work for Qantas on the upper floors of Coward St and I am full of common Qf misconceptions?"
Hence I cant find my
if its on fire with both hands! Finally this gem....
"Silly me, I always thought a CEO was paid to provide value to shareholders"
You crack me up, i nearly snorted what I was drinking and sprayed the kids with this one.
Just what planet do you come from? I think lowerlobe, the pimp and the soldier all have come pretty close to nailing you, just stick to dreaming, yes men, and destroying a company that was once the global industry benchmark.
Its not that far away from BBB- and then i am sure that you will pull the cord on a golden parachute.
Thankfully i dont work for QF
Last edited by international hog driver; 26th Jun 2006 at 07:01.
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Originally Posted by soldier of fortune
i believe airbus and qantas were deep in disscussion's yesterday at QCA CENTRAL -and both parties came to an agreement that airbus will lease 12-15 ex AIR INDIA JT9-7F POWERED B747-100 AIRCRAFT CURRENTLY IN STORAGE AND AWAITING DISPOSAL IN A BOMBAY hangar- free of charge- to cover the short term delay of the introduction of the A380.
GD IS VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.
GD IS VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.
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Getting back on topic....
There are really only two options for airbus and both are loss makers.
#1 More Discounts.
Firstly they gave away the 330's as the all time sweetener to get a long standing Boeing customer to order the Whale. That was the first loss, second loss was the already acknowledged low acquisition price as a launch customer.
#2 Additional Airframes
The only other option out there for fast delivery would be the donation (lease) of the 340-600’s that m-rats have deferred. Could be used as a stopgap and might even give the over crewed 330 crews something to do once JQ take the 332’s
But that to will cost money as Airbus have publically stated that they will make up the difference in the DOC's between a 346 and a 777.
Basically Lose-Lose
Maybe QF management could capitalise on this opportunity, they could push Airbus into a corner and push Boeing around on the price for some 777-300ER as long term ARV & Classic replacements
But speculating on QF Management to actually be proactive on a market opportunity would be something that has had no precedent under the current “crop at the top” 
of the white rat! 
#1 More Discounts.
Firstly they gave away the 330's as the all time sweetener to get a long standing Boeing customer to order the Whale. That was the first loss, second loss was the already acknowledged low acquisition price as a launch customer.
#2 Additional Airframes
The only other option out there for fast delivery would be the donation (lease) of the 340-600’s that m-rats have deferred. Could be used as a stopgap and might even give the over crewed 330 crews something to do once JQ take the 332’s
But that to will cost money as Airbus have publically stated that they will make up the difference in the DOC's between a 346 and a 777.
Basically Lose-Lose
Maybe QF management could capitalise on this opportunity, they could push Airbus into a corner and push Boeing around on the price for some 777-300ER as long term ARV & Classic replacements
But speculating on QF Management
to actually be proactive on a market opportunity would be something that has had no precedent under the current “crop at the top” of the white rat!
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Originally Posted by international hog driver
#2 Additional Airframes
The only other option out there for fast delivery would be the donation (lease) of the 340-600’s that m-rats have deferred. Could be used as a stopgap and might even give the over crewed 330 crews something to do once JQ take the 332’s
The only other option out there for fast delivery would be the donation (lease) of the 340-600’s that m-rats have deferred. Could be used as a stopgap and might even give the over crewed 330 crews something to do once JQ take the 332’s
But like I said, possibly an opportunity for 'bus to place some unloved 340 airframes around the traps and see if a few stick...
be proactive on a market opportunity would be something that has had no precedent under the current “crop at the top” of the white rat!
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What you mean the deal that American Airlines had about a dozen NG's coming down the pipe most of which that had alread had metal cut. That were deliverd in 100 days from contract signing.... The ones (at least the first three were 737-823's that became -838's)
The same ones owned by some mob called 738 Leasing 1 Pty Ltd ACN 099 119 641 (have a look in the top/Roof of the door sill at 1L next time you walk in one there should be 3 data plates)
29551 was N979AN now VXA
29552 was N981AN now VXD
29553 was N982AN now VXF
30897 was N98?AN now VXC
30899 was N983AN now VXE
30901 was N985AN now VXG
Yeah the ones that came RFN when the rat need to stop B744 domestic services after Ansett folded and DJ had less than 10 aircraft?
Its very easy to sign a good deal when there is metal cut and engines made and Boeing's other customers pleading to get out of contracts.
Yep those would be to ones, same good deal that Brett signed for the rolling options for the NG's.
Bloggs even you could have done an excellent deal with your hands tied behind your back, all you needed was stable capital base and your major opposition to fold after some guys dressed as sofa's flew some planes in to big buildings. 
No rocket sceince required by Coward St for this deal
The ones (at least the first three were 737-823's that became -838's)The same ones owned by some mob called 738 Leasing 1 Pty Ltd ACN 099 119 641 (have a look in the top/Roof of the door sill at 1L next time you walk in one there should be 3 data plates)
29551 was N979AN now VXA
29552 was N981AN now VXD
29553 was N982AN now VXF
30897 was N98?AN now VXC
30899 was N983AN now VXE
30901 was N985AN now VXG
Yeah the ones that came RFN when the rat need to stop B744 domestic services after Ansett folded and DJ had less than 10 aircraft?
Its very easy to sign a good deal when there is metal cut and engines made and Boeing's other customers pleading to get out of contracts.
Yep those would be to ones, same good deal that Brett signed for the rolling options for the NG's.
Bloggs even you could have done an excellent deal with your hands tied behind your back, all you needed was stable capital base and your major opposition to fold after some guys dressed as sofa's flew some planes in to big buildings.
No rocket sceince required by Coward St for this deal
Last edited by international hog driver; 26th Jun 2006 at 13:30.
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
We'll just forget about the excellent deal Dixon did on all the 738s then shall we...
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A330
Don't know why so many knock the A330. Is it purely technical issues?
I pax to Darwin frequently and go out of my way to catch QF123 (international ops via Darwin). Far superior service and comfort to the standard domestic offering.
I pax to Darwin frequently and go out of my way to catch QF123 (international ops via Darwin). Far superior service and comfort to the standard domestic offering.
Originally Posted by Raider1
Don't know why so many knock the A330.
The buck stops with Dixon over this debacle.
There is a slim possibility that Airbus may offer Qantas some A340-600's as interim capacity - possibly some of the aircraft that Emirates has delayed. I hope not as this type is a real dog.