Jetstar re-invents the wheel
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Jetstar re-invents the wheel
That this "New Age" know-all-know-nothing management is the costliest item in today's airline environment, is no better demonstrated than in this article. Not only have they conceded that allocated the time-proven allocated seating sytem is the most efficient way of handling pax, but hidden within the report....
Grandpa Aerotart
It is an unfortunate fact in this industry that management come and go while staff tend to be there much longer...it probably isn't any different in most similarly structured large businesses.
As a result we see seemingly constant efforts at 'reinventing the wheel' and we see it fail as often as not...for the same reasons it failed last time.
The managers themselves will never accept well intentioned advice because they are 'managers' and you're staff.
It's called lack of corporate knowledge.
It's the way they fought, and the reason they lost, the Vietnam War....the lessons learned were lost every 12 mths when people were rotated home and had to be relearned.
It will never change so just get used to it...you'll drive yourself nuts otherwise.
As a result we see seemingly constant efforts at 'reinventing the wheel' and we see it fail as often as not...for the same reasons it failed last time.
The managers themselves will never accept well intentioned advice because they are 'managers' and you're staff.
It's called lack of corporate knowledge.
It's the way they fought, and the reason they lost, the Vietnam War....the lessons learned were lost every 12 mths when people were rotated home and had to be relearned.
It will never change so just get used to it...you'll drive yourself nuts otherwise.
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Ryanair started off having a complete free-for-all scrum, but nowadays have modified it. You're given a numbered card at check-in, which corresponds to the order in which you checked in (I suppose like a sequence number). This then determines the order in which you board the aircraft. Once aboard, you can sit where you like. So it takes no extra time, but avoids the scrum.
Which is a bit of a bugger for us rushing to Stansted after work, who can still manage a respectable 100m time!!
Not quite sure how it works now with their on-line check-in; haven't flown FR for a year. But my point is that it is possible to have non-assigned seating and still avoid the scrum.
Which is a bit of a bugger for us rushing to Stansted after work, who can still manage a respectable 100m time!!
Not quite sure how it works now with their on-line check-in; haven't flown FR for a year. But my point is that it is possible to have non-assigned seating and still avoid the scrum.
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If you actually care to check you will see that the free seating has worked well and been cost effective.
A number of issues have driven the change of policy, particularly the intenational flying and the reduction in the cost over the last two years of allocating seats. There will still however be an increase in cost which most likely will end up being past on to the consumer.
I believe it is a good policy change in the light of a number of changes in the Company's direction.
A number of issues have driven the change of policy, particularly the intenational flying and the reduction in the cost over the last two years of allocating seats. There will still however be an increase in cost which most likely will end up being past on to the consumer.
I believe it is a good policy change in the light of a number of changes in the Company's direction.
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Free Seating Policy - meant to save money wasn't it?
FistFokker, Figure me this
- if a pax knocks off a seatbelt or a lifejacket, or vandalises the seat area, and the seat was allocated, then what is the result ? The PAX is confronted before he or she leaves the terminal and the gear is returned 99.99999% of the time. If not they are contacted with a please explain by the Feds . Note that this is less likely to happen in an allocated seat in the first place for obvious reasons.
- If the same happens with free seating (and it does - at a vastly higher rate than non-free-seating) then there is no hope of getting the gear back or the responsible parties confronted.
- Now, if a life jacket is worth $120.00, and it's a 120 seat aeroplane and only one life jacket per aeroplane per day goes walkies, what does that add to the ticket cost ????
I am sure the cost benifit of free seating is pretty much neutralised.
- Next add the security issues and the potential to loose multiple lifejackets or have multiple seat damage, and PAX general distrust or dislike of free seating, and the liklihood of seat skirmish in the terminal.
How does reinventing the wheel look now? The new wheel is not that much faster than the old one is it ??????????
FistFokker, Figure me this
- if a pax knocks off a seatbelt or a lifejacket, or vandalises the seat area, and the seat was allocated, then what is the result ? The PAX is confronted before he or she leaves the terminal and the gear is returned 99.99999% of the time. If not they are contacted with a please explain by the Feds . Note that this is less likely to happen in an allocated seat in the first place for obvious reasons.
- If the same happens with free seating (and it does - at a vastly higher rate than non-free-seating) then there is no hope of getting the gear back or the responsible parties confronted.
- Now, if a life jacket is worth $120.00, and it's a 120 seat aeroplane and only one life jacket per aeroplane per day goes walkies, what does that add to the ticket cost ????
I am sure the cost benifit of free seating is pretty much neutralised.
- Next add the security issues and the potential to loose multiple lifejackets or have multiple seat damage, and PAX general distrust or dislike of free seating, and the liklihood of seat skirmish in the terminal.
How does reinventing the wheel look now? The new wheel is not that much faster than the old one is it ??????????
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Danny C, all good points. However you will note that I support the policy change to allocated seating. I was simply saying the other system has worked well in meeting some of the targets the domestic operation wanted. I don't think it is an issue that pilots should be getting hot under the collar with each other about.
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FF. sorry if my language in prev post suggested otehrwise - not hot under the collar at all - I simply never saw the free seating idea as a good one, and it looks like history has proven me right no matter how the spin doctors and management who wouldn't listen to the troops at the time try to make it look otherwise 
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Well, let's see now...
I jumped on board a Jetstar flight the other day with my wife and sat down in a couple of seats... and flew to MEL!
A week later my wife and I jumped on a return flight, grabbed a couple of seats... and flew back home!
So, tell me, why is this a problem?
Am I missing something here?
Did the same thing with Alitalia about 30 yrs ago...what's the problem guys??
I jumped on board a Jetstar flight the other day with my wife and sat down in a couple of seats... and flew to MEL!
A week later my wife and I jumped on a return flight, grabbed a couple of seats... and flew back home!
So, tell me, why is this a problem?
Am I missing something here?
Did the same thing with Alitalia about 30 yrs ago...what's the problem guys??
......And non allocated seating is the norm with Sothwest, easyJet and Ryanair who are....let's see...oh yes... The Most Profitable Airlines On The Planet!!!!!
So OBVIOUSLY it's a bad idea!
(Oh God! I just agreed with Amos!!
So OBVIOUSLY it's a bad idea!
(Oh God! I just agreed with Amos!!
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This change of heart comes with longer turn around times on the ground. Seems the 25 minute turn around dream ain't happening.
No doubt management can't bear the cost of all that extra fuel being used to go fast to try and keep the show on time. Looks like fuel costs won out and sense prevailed.
Nicely hidden by the spin doctor.
No doubt management can't bear the cost of all that extra fuel being used to go fast to try and keep the show on time. Looks like fuel costs won out and sense prevailed.
Nicely hidden by the spin doctor.
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With JQ doing longer flights now within Oz to Perth & Darwin and crew operating both forward and return legs there's only a limited time to 'play with' if you need to offload someone & find their bags if they're too intoxicated to travel.
It's not uncommon for the last few pax to be boarding and have JQ ops informing staff they've got 10 mins to go or the crew are out of hours. What happens when the crew refuse to uplift someone due to the above reasons?
It's only a matter of time before the scenario happens, so taking the above into account are the cabin crew encouraged to have a bit of a rethink or does one pax ruin it for everybody by having 170 people diverted somewhere else (less crew hours) with the extra expense of overnighting pax in hotels then still having to get them to their original destination?
It's not uncommon for the last few pax to be boarding and have JQ ops informing staff they've got 10 mins to go or the crew are out of hours. What happens when the crew refuse to uplift someone due to the above reasons?
It's only a matter of time before the scenario happens, so taking the above into account are the cabin crew encouraged to have a bit of a rethink or does one pax ruin it for everybody by having 170 people diverted somewhere else (less crew hours) with the extra expense of overnighting pax in hotels then still having to get them to their original destination?
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All relax...
Isn't it clear they're doing it to be consistant with their International operations (eg: transferring pax from International to domestic etc...) That's all! Imagine a non-english speaking tourist group flying from overseas with allocated seating then transferring to a domestic flight without allocated seating but being the same product/airline?
MIss Behaviour...
Not sure about Jetstar (presume they're the same), but we as cabin crew can be rostered up to a certain amount of hours work, add another 1.5 hours for ANY delay. So I don't think your scenario should be a problem.
“Seat allocation will form part of Jetstar’s in-flight product for our low fare long haul international flights which will also feature two classes of service."
“Jetstar will in three years be a predominately international business and consistency of an allocated seat for all Jetstar services is fundamental to our product offering."
It's only a matter of time before the scenario happens, so taking the above into account are the cabin crew encouraged to have a bit of a rethink or does one pax ruin it for everybody by having 170 people diverted somewhere else (less crew hours) with the extra expense of overnighting pax in hotels then still having to get them to their original destination?
Last edited by skyshow; 21st Jun 2006 at 03:45.
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Fact
Dixon and the QF sales and marketing people have always been anti free seating.
As always, little alan is doing as he is told!!!!
Remember, he has promised Geoff to be the first in the group to introduce AWAs.
Dixon and the QF sales and marketing people have always been anti free seating.
As always, little alan is doing as he is told!!!!
Remember, he has promised Geoff to be the first in the group to introduce AWAs.
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JQ one step closer to QF
Look out mainline the end is near!
Now let's see. What is the difference between JQ and QF?
Only on-carriage and through baggage check-in. Then all the QF services at 70% of QF cost.
Watch this space!
Now let's see. What is the difference between JQ and QF?
Only on-carriage and through baggage check-in. Then all the QF services at 70% of QF cost.
Watch this space!
Now let's see. What is the difference between JQ and QF?
Regardless of all the negative comments regardiong QF service, it has improved and even with a steep down hill fall it is miles better than jetstar. Thats why QF will continue. I would not buy a ticket on Jetstar on a flight over an hour long and even then I would be grinding my teeth, or the few I have left all thge way to the destination.
Silly Old Git
Missus tin flew on Jet* last night.
Said it was a good new fast plane
But was a bit slow getting cracking for the blue seats when called.
All in all any flight that is quick is a good flight.
Especially at 2.am
Said it was a good new fast plane
But was a bit slow getting cracking for the blue seats when called.
All in all any flight that is quick is a good flight.
Especially at 2.am
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Originally Posted by king oath
This change of heart comes with longer turn around times on the ground. Seems the 25 minute turn around dream ain't happening.
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Have a read again of this article and like good little pilots look beyond the skin deep obvious attraction (the free for all seating is finished).
Anything else of significance?
Anything else of significance?