Sea Sprites Grounded
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No Erin, I picked up on the fact that you ain't smart enough to come up with your own Pprune tag......
And yes, some acquisitions do work out. Very easy to be on the outside slagging everything isn't it?
The concept of accelerating the Sea King retirement by diverting some of the early NH-90's and painting them grey instead of green will hopefully come off and help the Navy enormously.
Or do you think thats a dumb idea??
Agreed, the Sea Sprite isn't an SU30 - who said it was? (Oh -that was you....) What drug are you on?????
Seems you have a chip on your shoulder mate.........
By all means...please give up 
Dutch Roll - well said - covers the point exactly.
And yes, some acquisitions do work out. Very easy to be on the outside slagging everything isn't it?
The concept of accelerating the Sea King retirement by diverting some of the early NH-90's and painting them grey instead of green will hopefully come off and help the Navy enormously.
Or do you think thats a dumb idea??
Agreed, the Sea Sprite isn't an SU30 - who said it was? (Oh -that was you....) What drug are you on?????
Seems you have a chip on your shoulder mate.........
By all means...please give up Dutch Roll - well said - covers the point exactly.
Last edited by scran; 19th May 2006 at 06:37.
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Agreed, the Sea Sprite isn't an SU30 - who said it was?
SU-27/30? Sure........just find me a 3rd world country who: a) has them and then can: b) keep them serviceable..........
Having something don't make it a capability (as you argue for the Sea Sprite.............)
Having something don't make it a capability (as you argue for the Sea Sprite.............)
Very easy to be on the outside slagging everything isn't it?
Ok, happy thoughts.
Last edited by Erin Brockovich; 19th May 2006 at 11:21.
Originally Posted by DutchRoll
Nothing at all is wrong with the army getting replacement tanks, Gnadenburg. It's just that they got the one the pollies wanted, rather than the one the operators & tank people wanted. Or should I say, they were told from upon high: "we have agreed that despite your objections and reservations, we politicians know which tank is best for you, and it is the M1 Abrams, which our very dear friends have strongly hinted we should buy from them. Besides, the ranch in Texas is much more hospitable than some cramped little residence in Berlin. And we like Texas steak. Yum. And we hate schnitzel. Yuk. And they are selling them to us at a price we cannot resist, and we get lots of reward points. So we've taken the liberty of signing off on this project. You shall enjoy them, and you shall not complain about them in any way shape or form".
If defence was a commercial propostion ( bang for buck ), history would teach you to buy in service, B model American equipment. That's who we've fought with for the last 50 years and at a guess who we will be fighting with for the next.......
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First and last warning
Okay, you lot cut the pissing competition and personal broadsides
Let's stick to the facts, keep the personal garbage out of it, or the thread goes
Woomera (Eastern States)
Let's stick to the facts, keep the personal garbage out of it, or the thread goes
Woomera (Eastern States)
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Sorry Sir but he started it 
Ok pissing completed. It did make my boring day go quite quickly though. No hard feelings aye scran.
We should just by some ex Iraq tanks. Then we could just drive them over the border to Iran when we next help out the US of A.
Ok pissing completed. It did make my boring day go quite quickly though. No hard feelings aye scran.
We should just by some ex Iraq tanks. Then we could just drive them over the border to Iran when we next help out the US of A.
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Scran,
I hope we pick up the MRH90 for phase 4 and 6 or the training you are talking about on the phase 2 aircraft won’t happen. As you know we didn’t have enough money to purchase all the ......, ........ and a ....... Without a ....... –no training. Also don’t have an instrumented aircraft – no instrumentation, no ......... for instance.
Pieces of kit deleted due comsec, but you get the idea.
I hope we pick up the MRH90 for phase 4 and 6 or the training you are talking about on the phase 2 aircraft won’t happen. As you know we didn’t have enough money to purchase all the ......, ........ and a ....... Without a ....... –no training. Also don’t have an instrumented aircraft – no instrumentation, no ......... for instance.
Pieces of kit deleted due comsec, but you get the idea.
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I also read a report recently that the Tiger choppers need to be re-engined along with having considerable problems with weapons integration and other assorted dilemmas... Anyone care to comment? What's the go?
P.S. - The report was the result of a government audit.
P.S. - The report was the result of a government audit.
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Gnadenburg, you appear to confuse 'bang for buck' with 'piece of equipment most suited for the task'. No, in service 'B' model american equipment is not necessarily a good idea. Navy ships a classic example: 'Oh, errr, we're sorry our aussie friends, did we forget to tell you about the structural condition? Then again, you never really asked. Hey, nothing a few million dollars and a few thousand man-hours labour won't fix! Enjoy! You have our full support! Dang-nab it, how 'r them kangaroos goin' over there?'
OFS, a communication from the spirit world tells me that the Tiger chopper may suffer from the 'We want that helicopter but we don't want that equipment. We want this equipment. What do you mean it can't carry as much of this equipment? What? That equipment is lighter? Oh bugger, we didn't think of that!' syndrome, or something similar. I don't know if there are other potential problems.
Please people. Stop talking about defence projects and major equipment acquisitions. You are forcing me to triple my intake of valium and prozac, after leaving the military had allowed me to reduce it to safe levels. Think of my health here. And nobody say 'C-17'.
OFS, a communication from the spirit world tells me that the Tiger chopper may suffer from the 'We want that helicopter but we don't want that equipment. We want this equipment. What do you mean it can't carry as much of this equipment? What? That equipment is lighter? Oh bugger, we didn't think of that!' syndrome, or something similar. I don't know if there are other potential problems.
Please people. Stop talking about defence projects and major equipment acquisitions. You are forcing me to triple my intake of valium and prozac, after leaving the military had allowed me to reduce it to safe levels. Think of my health here. And nobody say 'C-17'.
Dutch Roll
B model as in an evolved development from an A model. Not 2nd hand equipment. The Singaporians seem to have success with this approach.
A mixed bag of unknown European helicopters? What about simply more American Blackhawks, Chinooks & new buy Apaches?
ANZAC frigates? Would simply buying more FFG's and another squadron of Seahawks been simpler?
Upgraded F111's & Israeli missiles? Instead leased F15E's a decade ago.
Bang for buck? In service American equipment has to win in hindsight?
B model as in an evolved development from an A model. Not 2nd hand equipment. The Singaporians seem to have success with this approach.
A mixed bag of unknown European helicopters? What about simply more American Blackhawks, Chinooks & new buy Apaches?
ANZAC frigates? Would simply buying more FFG's and another squadron of Seahawks been simpler?
Upgraded F111's & Israeli missiles? Instead leased F15E's a decade ago.
Bang for buck? In service American equipment has to win in hindsight?
Look folks, anyone can put the boot into Defence, its a cheap spectator sport.
Whether its Labor or Coalition, Defence procurement debacles have been regular part of the landscape over the last 50 years.
More often than not the reasons are never simple, politics have much to do with it, and the systemic problem of a combining defence civilians and serving military in one organisation/department is the root cause of much of this. (that is from the Minister down)
Todays article in the Smage sums up the situation better than many of the articles I have seen.
Whether its Labor or Coalition, Defence procurement debacles have been regular part of the landscape over the last 50 years.
More often than not the reasons are never simple, politics have much to do with it, and the systemic problem of a combining defence civilians and serving military in one organisation/department is the root cause of much of this. (that is from the Minister down)
Todays article in the Smage sums up the situation better than many of the articles I have seen.
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I think the biggest debacle for the RAN in recent years was the loss of capabilty in the paying off of the 3 DDG's HMAS Perth, Brisbane and Hobart with no immediate air warefare replacement. 10-15 year solution would of been to take the offer of the 4 Kidd class or even better the first 4 Ticonderogas' of that class that the USN have just paid off!!! These ships have all the bells except Tomahawk. While these were in service, consideration could of given to the commencment of the process of acquiring new builds as replacements.
Lots of flak for the Defence Department.
I am lead to believe that within the department for every person in uniform there is a civilian.
The uniformed ones come and go but the civilians are there long term, so who to blame?
I am lead to believe that within the department for every person in uniform there is a civilian.
The uniformed ones come and go but the civilians are there long term, so who to blame?
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Originally Posted by wessex19
I think the biggest debacle for the RAN in recent years was the loss of capabilty in the paying off of the 3 DDG's HMAS Perth, Brisbane and Hobart with no immediate air warefare replacement. 10-15 year solution would of been to take the offer of the 4 Kidd class or even better the first 4 Ticonderogas' of that class that the USN have just paid off!!! These ships have all the bells except Tomahawk. While these were in service, consideration could of given to the commencment of the process of acquiring new builds as replacements.
Magoo
