New upper age limit for International Pilots
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New upper age limit for International Pilots
An (old) mate just sent me this link:-
http://www.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm#30
Does this mean I can now try and fit my zimmer frame into my A340 cockpit?
I believe Airbus are retro-fitting disabled access into all their cockpits.
Chees,
James
http://www.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm#30
Does this mean I can now try and fit my zimmer frame into my A340 cockpit?
I believe Airbus are retro-fitting disabled access into all their cockpits.
Chees,
James
Just because ICAO approves, doesn't mean everyone agrees....read on!
ICAO Approves Pilots Over Age 60
The International Civil Aviation Organization adopted a “standard” to increase the upper age limit for airline pilots to 65, effective November 23. But the measure is limited to two-pilot crews when the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age. An ICAO “standard” is a mandatory minimum requirement and member states must notify ICAO if they are going to impose a more restrictive limit. Of 112 ICAO member countries responding to an ICAO letter, 83 percent indicated that an international age limit above 60 years would be appropriate for airline pilots. However, 16 percent–which includes the U.S.–indicated a preference to maintain the current upper age limit of 60 years, citing possible safety risks and a lack of convincing data that flying after age 60 is safe.
ICAO Approves Pilots Over Age 60
The International Civil Aviation Organization adopted a “standard” to increase the upper age limit for airline pilots to 65, effective November 23. But the measure is limited to two-pilot crews when the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age. An ICAO “standard” is a mandatory minimum requirement and member states must notify ICAO if they are going to impose a more restrictive limit. Of 112 ICAO member countries responding to an ICAO letter, 83 percent indicated that an international age limit above 60 years would be appropriate for airline pilots. However, 16 percent–which includes the U.S.–indicated a preference to maintain the current upper age limit of 60 years, citing possible safety risks and a lack of convincing data that flying after age 60 is safe.
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True, Capt F, but ICAO member states cannot (after Nov 2006) prevent over 60s pilots from operating in their airspace but they CAN limit licences issues within their own country to any age they like.
Also in the EU in Nov a new "anti-age discrimination" rulel comes into effect along with the new ICAO rules. So what is the bet that France will have to fall into line? 20/1, 50/1?
james
Also in the EU in Nov a new "anti-age discrimination" rulel comes into effect along with the new ICAO rules. So what is the bet that France will have to fall into line? 20/1, 50/1?
james
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Even if the FAA does not allow it, an ICAO client state should be allowed to operate their own registered aircraft into the US with an over 60 Captain after these rule changes.
This has got some of the senior pilots at QF busy. Some are approaching 60 now and are worried that they may be forced to retire before the changes are enacted.
They could bid back to the 767 but that is too much like working for a living so they are approaching AIPA to support them in a bid to not actually retire at 60 but get leave without pay for however long it takes for the changes to come in. Then they will come back in, maintaining their position on the gravy train for another four or five years.
Maybe AIPA should run another plebiscite on that one. 66.7% pass mark as well??
This has got some of the senior pilots at QF busy. Some are approaching 60 now and are worried that they may be forced to retire before the changes are enacted.
They could bid back to the 767 but that is too much like working for a living so they are approaching AIPA to support them in a bid to not actually retire at 60 but get leave without pay for however long it takes for the changes to come in. Then they will come back in, maintaining their position on the gravy train for another four or five years.
Maybe AIPA should run another plebiscite on that one. 66.7% pass mark as well??
Yup, another 5 years on 400K PA suits me fine, The F/Os will just have to wait another 5 years, but looking forward they will also have an extra 5 years to collect the treasure.
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I work with a pilot (PIC) that is approaching 62yrs of age. Flights are regularly operated (part 91 and 135) into Europe and the Middle East under his command. All flights are in N Registered aircraft with MTOW above 30000kgs. How is this so?? 
Nunc est bibendum
Originally Posted by Truckster
... some of the senior pilots at QF ...are approaching 60 now and are worried that they may be forced to retire ... are approaching AIPA to support them in a bid to not actually retire at 60 but get leave without pay for however long it takes...
If they can do that....fine. If they don't have enough time to hold out, I don't see why they should get leave without pay! I know of a couple of crew who were knocked back from taking leave without pay (one of them was on the Classic!
) for a variety of reasons. Just because it is inevitable doesn't mean I have to like it!
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One should not forget that Capt Al Haines, the man that pulled off a spectacular peice of airmanship and redefined CRM after controlling an uncontrollable DC-10 at Sioux City Iowa, had to retire shortly afterwards due to the age 60 rule.
I sometimes look askance at the crusty old buggers that sit next to me, but there was an example of a professional at the height of his abilities, forced to retire.
Snow on the roof doesn't mean the fire went out inside.
I sometimes look askance at the crusty old buggers that sit next to me, but there was an example of a professional at the height of his abilities, forced to retire.
Snow on the roof doesn't mean the fire went out inside.
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Both QF & NZ operate in US airspace on Foreign Carriers Ops Specifications issued by the FAA. One of the clauses in this document is that the PIC shall not be over the age of 60. The FAA's view is that the document was signed by the Airlines and will hold them to regardless of the new ICAO ruling.
Interesting times.
Interesting times.
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How about - if the PIC continues to pass the medicals then he/she can continue flying until any age? Wouldn't that make more sense?
I wouldn't have a problem with a healthy 108 year old as captain on my flight.
Cheers,
Tiger.
I wouldn't have a problem with a healthy 108 year old as captain on my flight.
Cheers,
Tiger.
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That'd be fine, Tiger, but some of the countries QF operates into (and over) set upper age limits, irrespective of what CASA might see fit to do.
Take a look at:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/di...y=%5e+christie
A few interesting points re bidding, rostering, etc. which unfortunately ended Capt. Christie's case.
I'm sure that if ICAO raised the age to 60 and the vast majority of countries QF operates into (and over) raise their upper age limits, the Company would happily raise its age as it would be a cost saving.
Maybe (and I'm just putting forward an idea here) there's an alternative if only CASA and Australia's immediate neighbours raised their limit to 65, that being to transfer to the 737 fleet. But, would a jumbo skipper want to go to the smaller (and hence less lucrative) type, given that the flying patterns might give less straight days off and there'd be less $$ coming in with which to top up the super? Maybe someone in this position might consider that the lifestyle trade-off just isn't worth it.
Take a look at:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/di...y=%5e+christie
A few interesting points re bidding, rostering, etc. which unfortunately ended Capt. Christie's case.
I'm sure that if ICAO raised the age to 60 and the vast majority of countries QF operates into (and over) raise their upper age limits, the Company would happily raise its age as it would be a cost saving.
Maybe (and I'm just putting forward an idea here) there's an alternative if only CASA and Australia's immediate neighbours raised their limit to 65, that being to transfer to the 737 fleet. But, would a jumbo skipper want to go to the smaller (and hence less lucrative) type, given that the flying patterns might give less straight days off and there'd be less $$ coming in with which to top up the super? Maybe someone in this position might consider that the lifestyle trade-off just isn't worth it.
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Taildragger, not just 737. There is at least one ex-747 classic skipper now plying his trade as a 767 skipper on domestic network after turning 61.
He is not destitute. Seems he just likes flying aeroplanes.
He is not destitute. Seems he just likes flying aeroplanes.
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Originally Posted by OBNO
These blokes should get a hobby - or a life!
I must be missing the big picture.So OBNO just what is "a life". Tell me so I'll know where I'm going wrong!!
Last edited by 747-419; 6th May 2006 at 19:40.