QF Cabin Crew Discussions
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......no one fills it out!
Where did you get that statistic from. I and surely many others have filled out the "engagement survey" when given the opportunity. Whether the survey has any impact at all, is another question. If Management realise, via the survey, that crew are unhappy with current "status quo", what is their response.... tough titties !
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Radiation Junkie......
Originally Posted by lowerlobe
Apparently the company needs at least 20% of crew to out the survey and they have not got anywhere near that figure and hence the extension.
That kind of sums up the attitude of crew towards the current management doesn't it...no real need to fill it out and vent your feelings,just let them work it out.
That kind of sums up the attitude of crew towards the current management doesn't it...no real need to fill it out and vent your feelings,just let them work it out.
That's of course if the the above figures are accurate
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It seems there is a " supposed" long standing agreementwith the FAAA to be involved and to participate with the Company for any new selection of crew accommodation.
The FAAA are reresentatives of cabin crew. It appears that the Company by ignoring any accommodation agreements may as well be saying that we have no interest in abiding by this particular agreement. Recent examples - LA, JFK, NRT, etc.
They then have the audacity to ask us if due to some unexpected flight delay if we will consider extending. They ask if we will do the right thing by them (our managers) and the Company.
They then want us to fill out a survey (waste of time) to let them know how we feel.
Dont be led by any spin. I believe that the company wishes us to view the FAAA(the union) as a seperate entity to us. Its time the FAAA reminded all crew and more importantly - The Company, that the FAAA are cabin crew. When the Company refuses or chooses to abide by an agreement with the union - The FAAA, such as the accommodation agreement then surely they should appreciate what a slap in the face it is to ALL of US - the LH cabin crew who work so hard (proven by recent customer survey results) for the Company; too any person with basic intelligence an agreement is a document representing a mutal understanding , a sign of co-operation and respect!!!!!
What the in the hell is this Company coming to with behaviour like this?????
The FAAA are reresentatives of cabin crew. It appears that the Company by ignoring any accommodation agreements may as well be saying that we have no interest in abiding by this particular agreement. Recent examples - LA, JFK, NRT, etc.
They then have the audacity to ask us if due to some unexpected flight delay if we will consider extending. They ask if we will do the right thing by them (our managers) and the Company.
They then want us to fill out a survey (waste of time) to let them know how we feel.
Dont be led by any spin. I believe that the company wishes us to view the FAAA(the union) as a seperate entity to us. Its time the FAAA reminded all crew and more importantly - The Company, that the FAAA are cabin crew. When the Company refuses or chooses to abide by an agreement with the union - The FAAA, such as the accommodation agreement then surely they should appreciate what a slap in the face it is to ALL of US - the LH cabin crew who work so hard (proven by recent customer survey results) for the Company; too any person with basic intelligence an agreement is a document representing a mutal understanding , a sign of co-operation and respect!!!!!
What the in the hell is this Company coming to with behaviour like this?????
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Hawkeye I cant see the relevance of the FAAA when it comes to accomodation.
Have a look at the situation in Singapore, the LHR and s/haul crew get allocated the good rooms and the SYD and BNE base the crap rooms.
Where is the FAAA in this situation,the LHR crew are not members of the FAAA and they get really nice rooms and we get the ****ty lower floors.
hmmmm so tell me how the FAAA are helping us here.
Looks like you don't have to be in the Union to get decent accomodation!
Have a look at the situation in Singapore, the LHR and s/haul crew get allocated the good rooms and the SYD and BNE base the crap rooms.
Where is the FAAA in this situation,the LHR crew are not members of the FAAA and they get really nice rooms and we get the ****ty lower floors.
hmmmm so tell me how the FAAA are helping us here.
Looks like you don't have to be in the Union to get decent accomodation!
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Cart Ex, your post proves my point.
The Faaa - (LH cabincrew) are not respected by our management. You (and All of us) as crew members are not considered (if what you say is true) when it comes to accommodation.
If we have no say with new accommodation slection processes, why should the FAAA be consulted over any other accom issue. By the way this is the first I have heard of it. Have you filled in icans and sent them to the fAAA to give them some evidence to enable them to take action on this issue you have described
The Faaa - (LH cabincrew) are not respected by our management. You (and All of us) as crew members are not considered (if what you say is true) when it comes to accommodation.
If we have no say with new accommodation slection processes, why should the FAAA be consulted over any other accom issue. By the way this is the first I have heard of it. Have you filled in icans and sent them to the fAAA to give them some evidence to enable them to take action on this issue you have described
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HAwkeye
the situation in Singapore is getting to be ridiculous.
The answer to your question is Yes, I have filled out Icans and No I have not informed the FAAA as I have no faith in them anymore.
At the end of a trip I'm so tired that I see its fruitless to go upstairs at QCC and photocopy my Icans for the FAAA as I know they will do NOTHING, the point is proven by the bad conditions at the LHR hotel and the fact that the LHR crew are not members of the FAAA and they get the best rooms.(in SIN)
If I were the FAAA I would approach the company and state that if they want to save money they can accomodate the LHR BKK and AKL crew anywhere,(cheaper accom.) after all what are they going to to do!
but then what are the FAAA going to do!
As the SIN hotel staff told me! its go nothing to do where you are based its all about the flight number how they allocate rooms, and they dont give a Fig where you are based, again what is the point of being a FAAA member is you cant even get a decent bar of soap.
the situation in Singapore is getting to be ridiculous.
The answer to your question is Yes, I have filled out Icans and No I have not informed the FAAA as I have no faith in them anymore.
At the end of a trip I'm so tired that I see its fruitless to go upstairs at QCC and photocopy my Icans for the FAAA as I know they will do NOTHING, the point is proven by the bad conditions at the LHR hotel and the fact that the LHR crew are not members of the FAAA and they get the best rooms.(in SIN)
If I were the FAAA I would approach the company and state that if they want to save money they can accomodate the LHR BKK and AKL crew anywhere,(cheaper accom.) after all what are they going to to do!
but then what are the FAAA going to do!
As the SIN hotel staff told me! its go nothing to do where you are based its all about the flight number how they allocate rooms, and they dont give a Fig where you are based, again what is the point of being a FAAA member is you cant even get a decent bar of soap.
Last edited by cartexchange; 2nd May 2006 at 08:44.
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I could not agree more!
The Sin accomodation is beyond a joke.
We certainlly do get the crap rooms and the LHR crew meander up to the new rooms,,,,,, where is the FAAA........ like the crew said on my trip, Why bother contacting them! you have a better chance in dealing with the VISITORS!
I think they are right/
The Sin accomodation is beyond a joke.
We certainlly do get the crap rooms and the LHR crew meander up to the new rooms,,,,,, where is the FAAA........ like the crew said on my trip, Why bother contacting them! you have a better chance in dealing with the VISITORS!
I think they are right/
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A MUST SEE DOCO
I was feeling a little DISENGAGED on last night's sector so when the CSM went on his break (after reading the Tele) I slipped into 4K and watched the doco/ movie "ENRON: THE SMARTEST GUYS IN THE ROOM".
The analogies between Enron senior management and Qantas are amazing .
Not from a conscious corruption point of view - but rather from the arrogance , hubris and contempt with which they treat their staff. and the blatant lies that management tell their employees.
Qantas senior management really do believe they are the smartest boys in corporate Australia - whenever anything goes wrong - they ALWAYS BLAME EXTERNALITIES. "Its a tough enviroment, competitive market, expensive oil...blah blah blah.."
Its never - "Hey , we really fukced up on that decision.."
What fools would launch a new airline before they secured landing rights into the country they wished to fly into (cost to shareholder for Jetstar Asia -$80 million & rising)?
AO -another abortion of a business plan.
And who forgot to HEDGE the price of oil barrels? (Even that fat heap of merde Toomey knew how to hedge a barrel of oil -thats the only thing that made the Strong regime look good)
The FAAA needs to put the blow torch on senior managements performance - as has been posted here -they are treating the union with contempt - its time we - THE UNION - made our senior management UNCOMFORTABLE.
Also -a copy of the ENRON movie should be placed in every FAAA members file - this would be a good use on union fee money - if you like I'll get john in SIN to whip up a few thousand copies.
As the Finacial Review stated last week - Geoff Dixon leads a team that (quote) "destroys shareholder value".
Time for heads to role - bring on the AGM.
QANTAS MANAGEMENT -The smartest guys in the room - NOT!!
The analogies between Enron senior management and Qantas are amazing .
Not from a conscious corruption point of view - but rather from the arrogance , hubris and contempt with which they treat their staff. and the blatant lies that management tell their employees.
Qantas senior management really do believe they are the smartest boys in corporate Australia - whenever anything goes wrong - they ALWAYS BLAME EXTERNALITIES. "Its a tough enviroment, competitive market, expensive oil...blah blah blah.."
Its never - "Hey , we really fukced up on that decision.."
What fools would launch a new airline before they secured landing rights into the country they wished to fly into (cost to shareholder for Jetstar Asia -$80 million & rising)?
AO -another abortion of a business plan.
And who forgot to HEDGE the price of oil barrels? (Even that fat heap of merde Toomey knew how to hedge a barrel of oil -thats the only thing that made the Strong regime look good)
The FAAA needs to put the blow torch on senior managements performance - as has been posted here -they are treating the union with contempt - its time we - THE UNION - made our senior management UNCOMFORTABLE.
Also -a copy of the ENRON movie should be placed in every FAAA members file - this would be a good use on union fee money - if you like I'll get john in SIN to whip up a few thousand copies.
As the Finacial Review stated last week - Geoff Dixon leads a team that (quote) "destroys shareholder value".
Time for heads to role - bring on the AGM.
QANTAS MANAGEMENT -The smartest guys in the room - NOT!!
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CSM has time to read the Tele and what appears to be an operating cabin attendent has time to watch a movie whilst "on duty - when the boss is out of the way".
Who has been complaining about the lack of service on Qantas?
Who has been complaining about the lack of service on Qantas?
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Originally Posted by cartexchange
HAwkeye
the situation in Singapore is getting to be ridiculous.
The answer to your question is Yes, I have filled out Icans and No I have not informed the FAAA as I have no faith in them anymore.
At the end of a trip I'm so tired that I see its fruitless to go upstairs at QCC and photocopy my Icans for the FAAA as I know they will do NOTHING, the point is proven by the bad conditions at the LHR hotel and the fact that the LHR crew are not members of the FAAA and they get the best rooms.(in SIN)
If I were the FAAA I would approach the company and state that if they want to save money they can accomodate the LHR BKK and AKL crew anywhere,(cheaper accom.) after all what are they going to to do!
but then what are the FAAA going to do!
As the SIN hotel staff told me! its go nothing to do where you are based its all about the flight number how they allocate rooms, and they dont give a Fig where you are based, again what is the point of being a FAAA member is you cant even get a decent bar of soap.
the situation in Singapore is getting to be ridiculous.
The answer to your question is Yes, I have filled out Icans and No I have not informed the FAAA as I have no faith in them anymore.
At the end of a trip I'm so tired that I see its fruitless to go upstairs at QCC and photocopy my Icans for the FAAA as I know they will do NOTHING, the point is proven by the bad conditions at the LHR hotel and the fact that the LHR crew are not members of the FAAA and they get the best rooms.(in SIN)
If I were the FAAA I would approach the company and state that if they want to save money they can accomodate the LHR BKK and AKL crew anywhere,(cheaper accom.) after all what are they going to to do!
but then what are the FAAA going to do!
As the SIN hotel staff told me! its go nothing to do where you are based its all about the flight number how they allocate rooms, and they dont give a Fig where you are based, again what is the point of being a FAAA member is you cant even get a decent bar of soap.
In regard to the Singapore accom. Could it be that the L/H CC are the last in to singapore behind 4 A330 flights , 2 QF 747 and 2 BA 747.
Perhaps the L/H get the crap rooms is because that is all that is left rather than a conspiricy ?
Just a thought
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that is the whole point!
What are the FAAA doing about this!
Once again you can be a MAM non union or QFUK non union and still get good rooms, so what is the point of the FAAA accommodation committee if they cant even guarantee their own members get a decent room!
What are the FAAA doing about this!
Once again you can be a MAM non union or QFUK non union and still get good rooms, so what is the point of the FAAA accommodation committee if they cant even guarantee their own members get a decent room!
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I think decent rooms are the least of our worries.
A quote from 'The Melbourne Age' yesterday.
There is speculation Qantas may accelerate the expansion of Jetstar International to speed up its austerity drive, and possibly cut the wages and conditions of staff, including pilots, cabin crew and engineers.
A quote from 'The Melbourne Age' yesterday.
There is speculation Qantas may accelerate the expansion of Jetstar International to speed up its austerity drive, and possibly cut the wages and conditions of staff, including pilots, cabin crew and engineers.
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In terms of accommodation, all MAM crew are governed by the agreement between FAAA and Qantas. Whether or not you're a union member makes no difference - your conditions are governed by the agreements between these two parties.
Like Bad Adventures has said, I think we all need to reconsider our focus. Bad rooms are one thing...'accelerated' cost cutting by the Q is another threat coming our way which will have greater implications on all of us!
Like Bad Adventures has said, I think we all need to reconsider our focus. Bad rooms are one thing...'accelerated' cost cutting by the Q is another threat coming our way which will have greater implications on all of us!
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To bend over or not,it's your call.
This is the way I see it.
A group of share holders own shares in a company and the aim is to get the best return on their money as possible.
Dixon has been appointed to run the place and is paid a squillion to do it.
He basically has to use the companies assets to generate as much income as possible while driving down costs as far as he can.Pretty simple really.
He will do whatever it takes to push those costs down.
Why wouldn'd he when he is paid fat bonus's to maximise the return on capital.You would too.
He obviousely hasn't been able to tell the oil companies to sharpen their pencill's and knock a few cents off a litre of kero.Boeing and Airbus are still making good money although they are reducing the cost per seat kilometer flown to their customers.The airports are jacking up their prices all the time even though Dixon and Goddfrey over at VB have been thundering blue murder about it.
So he is working to reduce his cost of staff.And what are they going to do about it? or more importantly to Dixon what can they do about it?.
Sweet kcufall I reckon.The new IR laws will crucify any strikers and the majority won't go out anyway.
He has started to divide the workforce by introducing Jestar on lower wages,admittedly he had to combat VB and any other LCC thinking of having ago in the Australian market in the short term.Now he will in time roll mainline over into Jestar but keep the two products seperate.How can the mainline crews stand up and say that they should be paid more to operate the same size equipement as Jestar eg 737/A320,A330/787 etc.I know the mainline people are going to go through the roof but really how can they justify it.
The engineering side of things has started to be reamed out.He has to be carefull here because he can't go running to Howard saying ''save me save me from the big bad Singair on the run to LA'' on one hand and on the other outsource all the R&M to overseas workshops where the cheap labour is.Holy bloody hell the Labour Party and the unions would have a field day and be able to hammer Howard all the way to the next election with that one.The Government is desperate to keep the Australian public feeling secure and the last thing they need is Qantas rampaging and pillageing through its workforce like there's no tomorrow.Look what happened at the Curra meatworks.
It will take time and things may get as rough as hell but he will get his way and all the time the costs of staff will be trending down.
This will happen right across the board.Like night follows day.
So what can be done about it.I suppose you could say 'stuff this' and leave.
It's not going to hurt the compay because their are many people who would crawl over broken glass to get into Qantas and anyway they are talking about VR'S in the back part of the plane.And all you are going to do is stuff your own family around with the relocating,drop in pay,stess of finding another job,etc.
I say get a secound income.You work it out what it is,one that you can fit around the job you have already got.Just do it.
Over time your secound income will become your primary source of revenue and then you have control.To control your life style you must have contol of your income.Fact.
Then it's up to you what to do.If you like the job a lot,stay.If not,take the gate option.
All I see in Qantas is a lot of stress.Stress kills in the long term.
Remember,management is on a crusade to reduce costs and will not stop untill they get them down to where they they want them.Management is under pressure also,their jobs and careers are on the line also.
Now just give me enough time to get out of the room and shut the door before the rocks and knives are thrown please.
A group of share holders own shares in a company and the aim is to get the best return on their money as possible.
Dixon has been appointed to run the place and is paid a squillion to do it.
He basically has to use the companies assets to generate as much income as possible while driving down costs as far as he can.Pretty simple really.
He will do whatever it takes to push those costs down.
Why wouldn'd he when he is paid fat bonus's to maximise the return on capital.You would too.
He obviousely hasn't been able to tell the oil companies to sharpen their pencill's and knock a few cents off a litre of kero.Boeing and Airbus are still making good money although they are reducing the cost per seat kilometer flown to their customers.The airports are jacking up their prices all the time even though Dixon and Goddfrey over at VB have been thundering blue murder about it.
So he is working to reduce his cost of staff.And what are they going to do about it? or more importantly to Dixon what can they do about it?.
Sweet kcufall I reckon.The new IR laws will crucify any strikers and the majority won't go out anyway.
He has started to divide the workforce by introducing Jestar on lower wages,admittedly he had to combat VB and any other LCC thinking of having ago in the Australian market in the short term.Now he will in time roll mainline over into Jestar but keep the two products seperate.How can the mainline crews stand up and say that they should be paid more to operate the same size equipement as Jestar eg 737/A320,A330/787 etc.I know the mainline people are going to go through the roof but really how can they justify it.
The engineering side of things has started to be reamed out.He has to be carefull here because he can't go running to Howard saying ''save me save me from the big bad Singair on the run to LA'' on one hand and on the other outsource all the R&M to overseas workshops where the cheap labour is.Holy bloody hell the Labour Party and the unions would have a field day and be able to hammer Howard all the way to the next election with that one.The Government is desperate to keep the Australian public feeling secure and the last thing they need is Qantas rampaging and pillageing through its workforce like there's no tomorrow.Look what happened at the Curra meatworks.
It will take time and things may get as rough as hell but he will get his way and all the time the costs of staff will be trending down.
This will happen right across the board.Like night follows day.
So what can be done about it.I suppose you could say 'stuff this' and leave.
It's not going to hurt the compay because their are many people who would crawl over broken glass to get into Qantas and anyway they are talking about VR'S in the back part of the plane.And all you are going to do is stuff your own family around with the relocating,drop in pay,stess of finding another job,etc.
I say get a secound income.You work it out what it is,one that you can fit around the job you have already got.Just do it.
Over time your secound income will become your primary source of revenue and then you have control.To control your life style you must have contol of your income.Fact.
Then it's up to you what to do.If you like the job a lot,stay.If not,take the gate option.
All I see in Qantas is a lot of stress.Stress kills in the long term.
Remember,management is on a crusade to reduce costs and will not stop untill they get them down to where they they want them.Management is under pressure also,their jobs and careers are on the line also.
Now just give me enough time to get out of the room and shut the door before the rocks and knives are thrown please.
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well said
pcpilot2. you have some very valid points. there are strategies qf unions could coordinate but there appears to be little corporation amongst them. dont forget to reduce stress you may have to take some more sickleave (stress leave). dont forget to record every phonecall you get from the office.
now, my sources tell me that a VR package is on the way for LH cabin crew.
form 2 lines, hurry hurry, dont break down the doors at qcc4.
now, my sources tell me that a VR package is on the way for LH cabin crew.
form 2 lines, hurry hurry, dont break down the doors at qcc4.
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IMO the Australian public are getting increasingly nervous about the massive IR power shift that the howard "government" has imposed on the average worker.
Abuse of this power is happening already and will do much to boost the union movement whilst making the slimeball howard's re-election VERY difficult.
I don't believe that the thinking voter WANTS to pass on poorer working conditions and third world wages to their kids...........
Abuse of this power is happening already and will do much to boost the union movement whilst making the slimeball howard's re-election VERY difficult.
I don't believe that the thinking voter WANTS to pass on poorer working conditions and third world wages to their kids...........
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non- core business
Now that Qantas appears to be buying into non -core aviation business' such as trains(!) "Qantas -The Poor Man's Patricks"-Rottweillers & All - should we start referrring to the CEO as "THE FAT CONTROLLER?"
Also with the transmission of business I've been told by one of the visitors that L/H crew will soon be operating the Riverina Express and there are 6 day patterns planned for the Indian Pacific.
So, what's the 3 letter code for Goulburn and....
"Would you like sauce with that pie luv?!"
Also with the transmission of business I've been told by one of the visitors that L/H crew will soon be operating the Riverina Express and there are 6 day patterns planned for the Indian Pacific.
So, what's the 3 letter code for Goulburn and....
"Would you like sauce with that pie luv?!"