QF to cancel A380 order?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QF to cancel A380 order?
Latest rumour heard on talkback radio last week was that QF is considering cancelling the A380 order using the delays as a way out of it's contractual obligations.
Anyone care to comment on whether this is plausible, considering there is no definite date for the delivery?
What would be the impact on Airbus as a company?
Anyone care to comment on whether this is plausible, considering there is no definite date for the delivery?
What would be the impact on Airbus as a company?
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is one hell of a rumour...
Word going around when they signed was that the contract was airtight and bomb-proof from QF's point of view. So I guess it is possible.
Airbus would be pretty miffed but I doubt it would throw the A380 program into any sort of jeopardy.
QF has been pretty upbeat about the A380 though... it is a major feature in any company publications. I doubt it would be cancelled unless there were other plans afoot.... lets roll out the 777 rumour again!
Word going around when they signed was that the contract was airtight and bomb-proof from QF's point of view. So I guess it is possible.
Airbus would be pretty miffed but I doubt it would throw the A380 program into any sort of jeopardy.
QF has been pretty upbeat about the A380 though... it is a major feature in any company publications. I doubt it would be cancelled unless there were other plans afoot.... lets roll out the 777 rumour again!
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
Maybe B747-8 inlieu ?
I can't comment on the Qantas rumour BUT you have to wonder that there will be some A380 orders cancelled.
If what I have heard is true about the following issues there must be some order cancellations.
It is at least 7 tonnes above original design empty weight with more to come. The wing failed its static load test and needs to be beefed up, the main under carriage needs to modified allowing it to turn, to stop cracking of the under carriage and to stop runway/taxiway damage.
There is going to a lack of suitable alternates in some parts of the world as not all major runways/airports will be capable of handling the A380.
Delivery is rumoured to be up to 18 months later than originally planned.
If what I have heard is true about the following issues there must be some order cancellations.
It is at least 7 tonnes above original design empty weight with more to come. The wing failed its static load test and needs to be beefed up, the main under carriage needs to modified allowing it to turn, to stop cracking of the under carriage and to stop runway/taxiway damage.
There is going to a lack of suitable alternates in some parts of the world as not all major runways/airports will be capable of handling the A380.
Delivery is rumoured to be up to 18 months later than originally planned.
Don Quixote Impersonator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I for one suspect that it might = True.
They = Airbus, are NOT, according to Flight Intntl going to "beef it up" just "rework" the numbers.
I also think Qantas are more important as a "launch" customer than they would care to admit.
Qantas has always been the "benchmark" to whom most others look because of their technical expertise.
Now, whether that has been squandered or "outplaced" in recent times remains to be seen.
At the end of the day ANY company is only worth the "intelectual property" which resides within it.
The question on everybody's lips is can the Euros deliver on the performance, ??
and whu wouldn't you hedge your bets.
At the end of the day you are betting the company.
For my money the ONLY manufacturer who has delivered the goods as advertised are Boeing. Without any fancy spares and training packages or heavyweight discounts the like of which are being offered by Airbus against fuel performance shortfalls.
There has been many a start up based on such blandishments, which work in the short term, at least long enough to bank some coin, but then inevitable result is tears for someone down the line.
Qantas does not need to nor should play that game.
An old and very succesful Arab trader once told me "your first loss is your best loss."
Cut your losses and get on with it.
They = Airbus, are NOT, according to Flight Intntl going to "beef it up" just "rework" the numbers.
I also think Qantas are more important as a "launch" customer than they would care to admit.
Qantas has always been the "benchmark" to whom most others look because of their technical expertise.
Now, whether that has been squandered or "outplaced" in recent times remains to be seen.
At the end of the day ANY company is only worth the "intelectual property" which resides within it.
The question on everybody's lips is can the Euros deliver on the performance, ??
and whu wouldn't you hedge your bets.At the end of the day you are betting the company.
For my money the ONLY manufacturer who has delivered the goods as advertised are Boeing. Without any fancy spares and training packages or heavyweight discounts the like of which are being offered by Airbus against fuel performance shortfalls.
There has been many a start up based on such blandishments, which work in the short term, at least long enough to bank some coin, but then inevitable result is tears for someone down the line.
Qantas does not need to nor should play that game.
An old and very succesful Arab trader once told me "your first loss is your best loss."
Cut your losses and get on with it.
Qantas have yet to announce their B744 replacement and Airbus are aware that the B777-ER is currently the front runner. In an effort to secure an A340-600 order they are offering a significantly lower aquisition cost plus for the life of the aircraft they will pay the difference in fuel that the A346 uses over the B773. Sounds very expensive considering how long QF usually keep their aircraft.
Re the A380 order:- Dixon said in Dec 2000 ( a month after the order was announced) that "Qantas had approx 100 escape clauses in the contract so that if there were any shortcomings in performance, delivery, etc then they could get out of the deal, but it was their intention to take delivery of the aircraft". I believe that the A380 will be delivered because of the huge amount of work that has already been done in anticipation of its delivery. Boeing would have to have made an extremely attractive offer on the B747-8 to entice QF to cancel the A380 order. The other issue is that Qantas is short of capacity now and couldn't wait the extra couple of years for the B747-8 to arrive.
Re the A380 order:- Dixon said in Dec 2000 ( a month after the order was announced) that "Qantas had approx 100 escape clauses in the contract so that if there were any shortcomings in performance, delivery, etc then they could get out of the deal, but it was their intention to take delivery of the aircraft". I believe that the A380 will be delivered because of the huge amount of work that has already been done in anticipation of its delivery. Boeing would have to have made an extremely attractive offer on the B747-8 to entice QF to cancel the A380 order. The other issue is that Qantas is short of capacity now and couldn't wait the extra couple of years for the B747-8 to arrive.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone remember the adverts and pictures back in the 70’s with the Concorde in Qantas colours ?????
We all know how that one panned out.
Plus from what I have heard the A-330's have never met any of the specs promised either and airbus is paying for the fuel used above what was promised as well...not a good sign when you want to sell other aircraft from your stable especially when they have not entered service yet..hence the orders for the 787's even though they are not in service either but at least Boeings track record is very good
We all know how that one panned out.
Plus from what I have heard the A-330's have never met any of the specs promised either and airbus is paying for the fuel used above what was promised as well...not a good sign when you want to sell other aircraft from your stable especially when they have not entered service yet..hence the orders for the 787's even though they are not in service either but at least Boeings track record is very good
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
About the Concord order in the 70's, have a look at hangar 131 (the most westerly hangar, opposite QF domestic terminal) and you will still see the lugs that were fitted along the overhead beam, which were to convert the hangar from a 2x 707 to a 3x Concord hangar.
Anything is possible.
Anything is possible.
Yes it's a rumour network but are you lot for real?
Qantas have made some foolish decisions recently (eg. too many aircraft types - the exact thing that bought Ansett unstuck) but they aren't dumb enough to ditch the A380 now, especially in favour of the knackered old warmed-over 1968 Boeing. That would be like opting for the Lockheed Starliner in 1958 when everybody else was going for 707's.
As the ILFC boss Udvar-Hazy has said, the A380 will be a game-changing aircraft and those who don't have them, like those who didn't get 707's, will be the losers.
Qantas have made some foolish decisions recently (eg. too many aircraft types - the exact thing that bought Ansett unstuck) but they aren't dumb enough to ditch the A380 now, especially in favour of the knackered old warmed-over 1968 Boeing. That would be like opting for the Lockheed Starliner in 1958 when everybody else was going for 707's.
As the ILFC boss Udvar-Hazy has said, the A380 will be a game-changing aircraft and those who don't have them, like those who didn't get 707's, will be the losers.
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the bottom line is that if any aircraft does not meet it's design parameters then it is a dead duck....especially these days with airline CEO's being as mercenary as they are...bonus wise I mean...
Wasn't the comet supposed to be the best thing as well......not that the A-380 has had any safety issues raised but if it is too heavy for one thing it is not going to be a success.
Darth Dixon has more escape clauses in his contract than Houdini..so if it does not live up to it's promises or is delayed further and the company is expecting capacity then it may look elsewhere and I'm sure Boeing has already been on the phone
But as ur2 said anything is possible
Wasn't the comet supposed to be the best thing as well......not that the A-380 has had any safety issues raised but if it is too heavy for one thing it is not going to be a success.
Darth Dixon has more escape clauses in his contract than Houdini..so if it does not live up to it's promises or is delayed further and the company is expecting capacity then it may look elsewhere and I'm sure Boeing has already been on the phone
But as ur2 said anything is possible
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Paradise
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The A380 is slower also vs B747 from what I have heard only about M0.2. No big deal in europe as it will only add an extra 15min for example to a sector. Factor that for qf routes and it can add up to an extra 45mins. Makes scheduling more fun to meet certain slot times for dep & arrival.
For a boeing it my carry a smaller payload but is faster therefore on ground earlier turnaround and go again. Factor 30mins a day boeing vs airbus and you can slot in another revenue flight whereas airbus is just arriving at the gate.
Bigger is not necessarily better when you can still make money on smaller but higher load factors. Thank god someone saw the light and put another boeing order in.
For a boeing it my carry a smaller payload but is faster therefore on ground earlier turnaround and go again. Factor 30mins a day boeing vs airbus and you can slot in another revenue flight whereas airbus is just arriving at the gate.
Bigger is not necessarily better when you can still make money on smaller but higher load factors. Thank god someone saw the light and put another boeing order in.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
haha what bollocks. QF has already spent so much on the A380 program! The program is in full swing, no one has blinked an eye, on what talk-back-trash was this load of crap heard? ha the pro-boeing die-hards will love this! Rumours should at least be believable! 
Registered User **
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Ultimate Crew Rest....
Age: 69
Posts: 2,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
podbreak....you would not be pro airbus by any chance would you?
There is nothing more certain in this world that Darth would cut the A-380 if it does not live up to it's performance specs.
Any money spent by Qantas so far would be re-imbursed by Airbus if it turns out to be a dud and that would be iron clad in the contract
There is nothing more certain in this world that Darth would cut the A-380 if it does not live up to it's performance specs.
Any money spent by Qantas so far would be re-imbursed by Airbus if it turns out to be a dud and that would be iron clad in the contract
Last edited by lowerlobe; 4th Apr 2006 at 02:03.