Qantas Quietly Books A 747 For Heavy Maintenance In Singapore
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Qantas Quietly Books A 747 For Heavy Maintenance In Singapore
Qantas goes back on Asian promise
By Scott Rochfort
March 22, 2006
BARELY a fortnight after promising to keep the heavy maintenance of its Boeing jets in Australia, Qantas quietly booked in at least one of its 747s for an overhaul in Singapore.
"As part of the transition of our heavy maintenance operations from Sydney to Avalon, a heavy maintenance check on one of our Boeing 747-400 aircraft will be carried out in Singapore next month," the airline's head of engineering, David Cox, confirmed yesterday.
Steve Fenech, the acting national secretary of the Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association, said: "We are horrified by the claims that the 747s need to go offshore."
He said Qantas's plans to use Australian aircraft engineers to oversee the work in Singapore was a "slap in the face".
Full article : http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...703365706.html
By Scott Rochfort
March 22, 2006
BARELY a fortnight after promising to keep the heavy maintenance of its Boeing jets in Australia, Qantas quietly booked in at least one of its 747s for an overhaul in Singapore.
"As part of the transition of our heavy maintenance operations from Sydney to Avalon, a heavy maintenance check on one of our Boeing 747-400 aircraft will be carried out in Singapore next month," the airline's head of engineering, David Cox, confirmed yesterday.
Steve Fenech, the acting national secretary of the Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association, said: "We are horrified by the claims that the 747s need to go offshore."
He said Qantas's plans to use Australian aircraft engineers to oversee the work in Singapore was a "slap in the face".
Full article : http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...703365706.html
Ah ha! Thats the plan! The Fabian strategy, a little at a time. Its clear that the Avalon move is just a sop. All your Qf maintenance is going offshore, or rather the maintenance of the newer types is never going to come here in the first place is it?
This strategy will work just fine, except it reduces Qantas to nothing more than a brand name.....................which has nothing to back it up.
This strategy will work just fine, except it reduces Qantas to nothing more than a brand name.....................which has nothing to back it up.
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They tried KLM but KLM doesn't have CASA approval and HAECO is about to be audited by CASA because CASA has some worries.
Honestly is anyone suprised.
Is it VH OJO by any chance?
Honestly is anyone suprised.
Is it VH OJO by any chance?
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Would you care to elaborate on such "worries" at HAECO?
I am aware of reports that JL were unhappy with work done on 747s and 767s but that was at TAECO.
I am aware of reports that JL were unhappy with work done on 747s and 767s but that was at TAECO.
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why dont CASA insist this is an australian registered A/C
it must be maintained the same as other A/c
same lame to ame ratio
then instead of sending two reps
they must send twenty lames to make sure that the work is done and not just signed off
P.S.
who ever goes overseas make sure the work is done properly
that is what got us in to this problem, jollies
it must be maintained the same as other A/c
same lame to ame ratio
then instead of sending two reps
they must send twenty lames to make sure that the work is done and not just signed off
P.S.
who ever goes overseas make sure the work is done properly
that is what got us in to this problem, jollies
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Nah, just send the clowns who "over saw" the near right off of the ex MAS 744s! Work will be done back in AUS quick smart! 
Nice to see CASA sit idley by as all this happens. Might have to put some more fees up to justify their existence. "Want to register it here? Then fix it, and crew it here. Simple." 
Nice to see CASA sit idley by as all this happens. Might have to put some more fees up to justify their existence. "Want to register it here? Then fix it, and crew it here. Simple."
Nunc est bibendum
The 767s (Z cars if I recall) went to Singapore a few years back for major maintenance so this is hardly a new set of circumstances however it does fit in with the rest of the goings on. If I recall correctly, most of the aircraft came back to Australia with more snags on them then when they went into maintenance. However, the fundamental difference then was what department the cost of fixing those snags went against. Makes the singapore operation look all rosy and the QF line maintenance guys look like they are having to spend more money on the iarcraft than they should.
How long will it be before Avalon can not handle the 'volume of work' and so even more aircraft go overseas?
How long will it be before Avalon can not handle the 'volume of work' and so even more aircraft go overseas?
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“This strategy will work just fine, except it reduces Qantas to nothing more than a brand name”
This is precisely where many industries are heading. As Robert Crandell from American Airlines once said, the ultimate airline will be one that doesn’t operate a single aircraft.
This is precisely where many industries are heading. As Robert Crandell from American Airlines once said, the ultimate airline will be one that doesn’t operate a single aircraft.
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Originally Posted by EmiratesSandpit
Would you care to elaborate on such "worries" at HAECO?
I am aware of reports that JL were unhappy with work done on 747s and 767s but that was at TAECO.
I am aware of reports that JL were unhappy with work done on 747s and 767s but that was at TAECO.
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Qantas could be heading for a showdown with unions after the airline's chief executive officer Geoff Dixon backflipped on a pledge to keep the airline's engineering work in Australia.
Union leaders are planning rallies to protest the Qantas decision to send one of its 747 jumbo jets to a workshop in Asia.
Just two weeks ago, Geoff Dixon told the airline's 6900 maintenance workers he had backed away from plans to send engineering work out of Australia after a decision to close its Sydney maintenance base.
Future maintenance would instead be sent to Brisbane and an expanded Melbourne base on the Avalon airfield but Mr Dixon did not mention this would not happen before Sydney closed.
Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union assistant national secretary Glenn Thompson said his members had been ld to believe their work would be be maintained within Australia, despite a desire to cut costs by between 15 and 20 per cent by an in-depth review between July next year and July 2008.
"We've got major concerns that Qantas on March 10 gave us a commitment to maintain high-skilled Australian jobs in Australia," Mr Thompson said.
"And as a result of that, I understand that Qantas has taken a decision which goes back on their initial commitment to maintain maintenance of aircraft in Australia by seeking to offshore one of their 747-400 series aircraft.
"In relation to taking action, we're currently in a bargaining round and in the process of negotiations with Qantas.
"Quite clearly, the issue of uncertainty about heavy maintenance in Australia is of great concern to us.
"Qantas gave us a commitment that no offshoring would occur.
"This is quite clearly Qantas breaking their position and word to the workforce."
Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association federal president Michael O'Rance said his union had sought legal advice.
"Our belief is that Qantas is in breach of our enterprise bargaining agreement and outsourcing protocol," he said.
He said he had raised the matter with Qantas management but that they hadn't responded.
"Now they've got an aircraft that needs a heavy maintenance check and they're going to send it to Singapore. We're dismayed at the position Qantas has taken."
Mr O'Rance said he had 227 members in Sydney facing redundancy in less than two months, while the hangars in which they worked were not due to demolished for up to six years.
"We're telling Qantas they've got the manpower, they've got the knowledge and they've got the equipment to do these jobs. Let them be done in Sydney.
"In the discussions we have had with the company, they have told us the rationale for sending this job to Asia is that the lines are full in Melbourne (at Avalon) and they have no other alternative but to send this maintenance offshore. But we say the right alternative is right here in Sydney."
Australian Workers Union national secretary Bill Shorten, who represents unlicenced aircraft maintenance workers, said he believed that Qantas had actually booked two 747s for maintenance overhauls overseas.
"There's two 747s we're concerned about. They're to be sent over for D checks, that's the most extensive and intensive maintenance overhaul," Mr Shorten said.
"They say that isn't going to happen. But we can tell you the month and the airport.
"One is scheduled, we understand, to go to the KLM facility in Zurich in April. The other is scheduled to go to HAECO (Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Company) in Hong Kong in June.
"Whether it's Singapore or Hong Kong, the observation we make is that they came out two weeks ago and said they weren't going to become the flying panda or the flying cuckoo.
"The point is, this is major work. It's a D check, not even a C check or one of the other checks. It's the most serious check."
A spokeswoman for Mr Shorten later said his union was also looking at legal options in relation to what it sees as commitments made in its EBA.
She said the AWU was also planning to join a third union, the Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union, in hosting rallies on Friday at the Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney airports, with a promise of minimal disruption to the travelling public.
Qantas head of engineering David Cox denied arrangements had been made for 747 maintenance in either Hong Kong or Switzerland.
"Do we have a 474 booked for heavy maintenance with HAECO? No, we don't," Mr Cox said.
"However we are talking to HAECO and others about possible opportunities, should they be needed.
"And do we have an aircraft booked with KLM for heavy maintenance? Again, the answer is no.
"For operational reasons, some of our heavy maintenance work is undertaken overseas from time to time. We've made no secret of this. We are always assessing opportunities and talking to service providers.
"We did talk to KLM late last year, but did not take this any further."
theage.com.au
The unions did not think this would happen what friggin planet are they on of course this was going to happen all there members should give them the flick they have done bugger all for them.
Union leaders are planning rallies to protest the Qantas decision to send one of its 747 jumbo jets to a workshop in Asia.
Just two weeks ago, Geoff Dixon told the airline's 6900 maintenance workers he had backed away from plans to send engineering work out of Australia after a decision to close its Sydney maintenance base.
Future maintenance would instead be sent to Brisbane and an expanded Melbourne base on the Avalon airfield but Mr Dixon did not mention this would not happen before Sydney closed.
Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union assistant national secretary Glenn Thompson said his members had been ld to believe their work would be be maintained within Australia, despite a desire to cut costs by between 15 and 20 per cent by an in-depth review between July next year and July 2008.
"We've got major concerns that Qantas on March 10 gave us a commitment to maintain high-skilled Australian jobs in Australia," Mr Thompson said.
"And as a result of that, I understand that Qantas has taken a decision which goes back on their initial commitment to maintain maintenance of aircraft in Australia by seeking to offshore one of their 747-400 series aircraft.
"In relation to taking action, we're currently in a bargaining round and in the process of negotiations with Qantas.
"Quite clearly, the issue of uncertainty about heavy maintenance in Australia is of great concern to us.
"Qantas gave us a commitment that no offshoring would occur.
"This is quite clearly Qantas breaking their position and word to the workforce."
Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association federal president Michael O'Rance said his union had sought legal advice.
"Our belief is that Qantas is in breach of our enterprise bargaining agreement and outsourcing protocol," he said.
He said he had raised the matter with Qantas management but that they hadn't responded.
"Now they've got an aircraft that needs a heavy maintenance check and they're going to send it to Singapore. We're dismayed at the position Qantas has taken."
Mr O'Rance said he had 227 members in Sydney facing redundancy in less than two months, while the hangars in which they worked were not due to demolished for up to six years.
"We're telling Qantas they've got the manpower, they've got the knowledge and they've got the equipment to do these jobs. Let them be done in Sydney.
"In the discussions we have had with the company, they have told us the rationale for sending this job to Asia is that the lines are full in Melbourne (at Avalon) and they have no other alternative but to send this maintenance offshore. But we say the right alternative is right here in Sydney."
Australian Workers Union national secretary Bill Shorten, who represents unlicenced aircraft maintenance workers, said he believed that Qantas had actually booked two 747s for maintenance overhauls overseas.
"There's two 747s we're concerned about. They're to be sent over for D checks, that's the most extensive and intensive maintenance overhaul," Mr Shorten said.
"They say that isn't going to happen. But we can tell you the month and the airport.
"One is scheduled, we understand, to go to the KLM facility in Zurich in April. The other is scheduled to go to HAECO (Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Company) in Hong Kong in June.
"Whether it's Singapore or Hong Kong, the observation we make is that they came out two weeks ago and said they weren't going to become the flying panda or the flying cuckoo.
"The point is, this is major work. It's a D check, not even a C check or one of the other checks. It's the most serious check."
A spokeswoman for Mr Shorten later said his union was also looking at legal options in relation to what it sees as commitments made in its EBA.
She said the AWU was also planning to join a third union, the Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union, in hosting rallies on Friday at the Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney airports, with a promise of minimal disruption to the travelling public.
Qantas head of engineering David Cox denied arrangements had been made for 747 maintenance in either Hong Kong or Switzerland.
"Do we have a 474 booked for heavy maintenance with HAECO? No, we don't," Mr Cox said.
"However we are talking to HAECO and others about possible opportunities, should they be needed.
"And do we have an aircraft booked with KLM for heavy maintenance? Again, the answer is no.
"For operational reasons, some of our heavy maintenance work is undertaken overseas from time to time. We've made no secret of this. We are always assessing opportunities and talking to service providers.
"We did talk to KLM late last year, but did not take this any further."
theage.com.au
The unions did not think this would happen what friggin planet are they on of course this was going to happen all there members should give them the flick they have done bugger all for them.
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The reason I ask about aircraft turn-around and ame/lame involvement is I wonder what management would say if engineering either refused to turn around an aircraft maint'd overseas... or wrote up every tiny thing wrong and refused to release the aircraft till it was fixed..
Of course I'm not saying I agree with that though
Of course I'm not saying I agree with that though
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Just heard from a mate who went to the first meeting held by the ALAEA Fed exec and Heavy Maint Lames since the shut down was announced.
He said that a recommendation has been put to the Executive to call Mass meeting of all ALAEA members in Sydney by tuesday next week to discuss Qantas's plans reegarding redundancies.
The gist of it was that the announcement of redundant LAME positions actually affects all LAMEs at Qantas covered by the EBA.
This could mean that the EBA clause of last on first off applies to any Lame within Qantas not just those from the area that the jobs were shed from.
If this is the case then long serving Lames from Heavy could challenge their dismissal if there are blokes with lesser time with the company in, say, perth or sdt or mit,bne Heavy etc.
He said that a recommendation has been put to the Executive to call Mass meeting of all ALAEA members in Sydney by tuesday next week to discuss Qantas's plans reegarding redundancies.
The gist of it was that the announcement of redundant LAME positions actually affects all LAMEs at Qantas covered by the EBA.
This could mean that the EBA clause of last on first off applies to any Lame within Qantas not just those from the area that the jobs were shed from.
If this is the case then long serving Lames from Heavy could challenge their dismissal if there are blokes with lesser time with the company in, say, perth or sdt or mit,bne Heavy etc.
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Qantas to keep maintenance in Australia
From: AAP
March 22, 2006
Qantas is committed to keeping its heavy aircraft maintenance in Australia, despite arranging to send a Boeing 747-400 to Singapore for work next month, the airline said today.
Chief executive Geoff Dixon announced on March 10 that Qantas would not send engineering work to Asia for at least two years.
But he also said Qantas would move its Sydney operation to Melbourne.
The airline today confirmed it had booked a Boeing 747-400 aircraft in for work in Singapore next month, as part of the transition.
However, executive general manager of Qantas Engineering David Cox said this was not unusual.
He said Qantas had made no secret about sending the jet to Singapore and would continue to send work offshore if necessary.
"On occasion we carry out maintenance work offshore, work that is done by qualified, reputable and fully certified service providers," Mr Cox said in a statement.
"To be clear, right now we have plans for one aircraft to undergo a maintenance check overseas.
"However, we will always reserve the right to send some work offshore to meet operational requirements where necessary."
From: AAP
March 22, 2006
Qantas is committed to keeping its heavy aircraft maintenance in Australia, despite arranging to send a Boeing 747-400 to Singapore for work next month, the airline said today.
Chief executive Geoff Dixon announced on March 10 that Qantas would not send engineering work to Asia for at least two years.
But he also said Qantas would move its Sydney operation to Melbourne.
The airline today confirmed it had booked a Boeing 747-400 aircraft in for work in Singapore next month, as part of the transition.
However, executive general manager of Qantas Engineering David Cox said this was not unusual.
He said Qantas had made no secret about sending the jet to Singapore and would continue to send work offshore if necessary.
"On occasion we carry out maintenance work offshore, work that is done by qualified, reputable and fully certified service providers," Mr Cox said in a statement.
"To be clear, right now we have plans for one aircraft to undergo a maintenance check overseas.
"However, we will always reserve the right to send some work offshore to meet operational requirements where necessary."
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Indeed the whole situation is unfair, nobody should have to lose their jobs.
But this might be a wake up call to the membership in general that anybodies job could be affected not just us poor buggers in Sydney Heavy.
As such it's time to wake up and speak up and then take action.
Last Update: Wednesday, March 22, 2006. 8:00am (AEDT)
A 747 will be sent to Singapore next month. (Lateline)
Singapore picks up Qantas jumbo job
Qantas says it is sending one of its 747s to Singapore for maintenance, while the company finishes transferring its Australian maintenance operations from Sydney to Melbourne.
The plane will be sent to Singapore next month, but the airline says it is committed to keeping its maintenance operations in Australia.
Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association spokesman Michael O'Rance says the airline's actions undermine that commitment.
"If they're committed to maintenance, why not do it?" he said.
"They've got the manpower, they've got the facility there, it's not as though they're pulling down that hangar in the next week or two.
"That hangar's going to be there, under my understanding, for the next five or six years. Why not utilise it?"
Mr O'Rance says he worried Qantas is not as committed to Australian workers as it says.
"I certainly hope this is not the tip of the iceberg," he said.
"But our members feel betrayed, they're very down at the moment, and this just further expands it. It's disgraceful, it's un-Australian."
This came from the ABC news site.
But this might be a wake up call to the membership in general that anybodies job could be affected not just us poor buggers in Sydney Heavy.
As such it's time to wake up and speak up and then take action.
Last Update: Wednesday, March 22, 2006. 8:00am (AEDT)
A 747 will be sent to Singapore next month. (Lateline)
Singapore picks up Qantas jumbo job
Qantas says it is sending one of its 747s to Singapore for maintenance, while the company finishes transferring its Australian maintenance operations from Sydney to Melbourne.
The plane will be sent to Singapore next month, but the airline says it is committed to keeping its maintenance operations in Australia.
Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association spokesman Michael O'Rance says the airline's actions undermine that commitment.
"If they're committed to maintenance, why not do it?" he said.
"They've got the manpower, they've got the facility there, it's not as though they're pulling down that hangar in the next week or two.
"That hangar's going to be there, under my understanding, for the next five or six years. Why not utilise it?"
Mr O'Rance says he worried Qantas is not as committed to Australian workers as it says.
"I certainly hope this is not the tip of the iceberg," he said.
"But our members feel betrayed, they're very down at the moment, and this just further expands it. It's disgraceful, it's un-Australian."
This came from the ABC news site.
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Unions they are what you make them or allow the to be!
The unions did not think this would happen what friggin planet are they on of course this was going to happen all there members should give them the flick they have done bugger all for them.[/QUOTE]
Members lax attitude toward the point and purpose of association and how it is achieved is the result we have today.
The seeds of corruption and incompetance feed on the apethy of the members all waiting for someone else.
Didn't this start back with the loss of the 3 min handwash time, nightshift meals, 17.5% dayshift penalties.
Then we moved on to the I'm right jack factor in 96 loss of dayshift penalties, diff shift lengths for new starters, loss of RDO'S etc, then the LAME US vs THOSE STUCK 97 Jack deal divid and conquer.
Yes these inept union leaders endorsed company yes votes time and again, rather then maintaining equality in the ranks and hence unity and strength.
Where is the forsight (not Forstaff
that we were given instead)
Unions are needed to keep the worplace fair and safe, vigilant members keep unions strong and useful.
Howard encourages corrupt, over remunerated, underskilled management at the expense of the creation of a new working poor.
You need a UNION just make it accountable, be informed and clean them up.
Members lax attitude toward the point and purpose of association and how it is achieved is the result we have today.
The seeds of corruption and incompetance feed on the apethy of the members all waiting for someone else.
Didn't this start back with the loss of the 3 min handwash time, nightshift meals, 17.5% dayshift penalties.
Then we moved on to the I'm right jack factor in 96 loss of dayshift penalties, diff shift lengths for new starters, loss of RDO'S etc, then the LAME US vs THOSE STUCK 97 Jack deal divid and conquer.
Yes these inept union leaders endorsed company yes votes time and again, rather then maintaining equality in the ranks and hence unity and strength.
Where is the forsight (not Forstaff
that we were given instead) Unions are needed to keep the worplace fair and safe, vigilant members keep unions strong and useful.
Howard encourages corrupt, over remunerated, underskilled management at the expense of the creation of a new working poor.
You need a UNION just make it accountable, be informed and clean them up.
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i read the eba pinned up in h245 it states consideration must be given
it also states that consideration to people nearing retirement
it does no state last in first out is set in concrete
what about people that are not union members are they binded by this
do you thing base will let its young guns go to be replaced enmass by people close to retirement
it also states that consideration to people nearing retirement
it does no state last in first out is set in concrete
what about people that are not union members are they binded by this
do you thing base will let its young guns go to be replaced enmass by people close to retirement
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P-A-F
As an extension to your proposal if the aircraft is to be sent offshore, or any aircraft sent offshore for that matter is the LAME's as a whole should boycott any individual/s travelling with and supervising work carried out on the aircraft full-stop. (Bring on the white ants)
I'm sure the boffins have a contingency for this action but at least the members would show a definite opposition to this type of action.
And then lets see what type of garbage job we get back, line and sevicing should have a field day!
All such rectification work should be well documented and recorded independently with a resultant case file compiled, the company may not care but I'm sure/hope CASA would.
I'm sure the boffins have a contingency for this action but at least the members would show a definite opposition to this type of action.
And then lets see what type of garbage job we get back, line and sevicing should have a field day!
All such rectification work should be well documented and recorded independently with a resultant case file compiled, the company may not care but I'm sure/hope CASA would.
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Unfortunately boycotting or black banning that Aircraft is classed as unprotected industrial action. Unless members consider on the own behalf that boycotting the aircraft would be a good thing.
That would be a different story.
That would be a different story.