Geoff Dixon Writes To 2600 Pilots, Threatens Union Payment Cuts
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Actually PAF, US economic growth has been pretty robust too, like Australia's, yet their big airlines are in all sorts of trouble.
Maybe there is more to it than only economic circumstances?
The Howard government does indeed have generally good economic sense, but they have also been fortunate to ride a wave of western prosperity in recent years. The same is true for many western governments, irrespective of whether their policies have lent to the 'left', 'centre' or 'right' in the last 15 years. Even the arch-socialist countries of Europe (aka France, etc) are still growing economically, albeit slowly! I have to draw the line at praising him though, in respect of the IR laws. You'll be largely insulated from them in your current job (which BTW now pays WAY more than 10 years ago primarily because mine pays better! I can run through the history of that if you like).
I sure as heck won't be!
Keg brings up a very pertinent point. I too would be quite happy to have the same 'ground rules' applied as the CEO. Unfortunately though, corporate governance (if there is such a thing) in Australia just doesn't work like that. For example an Aussie CEO, far more so than an American CEO, can lead a viable company into oblivion and still walk away with millions.
Maybe there is more to it than only economic circumstances?The Howard government does indeed have generally good economic sense, but they have also been fortunate to ride a wave of western prosperity in recent years. The same is true for many western governments, irrespective of whether their policies have lent to the 'left', 'centre' or 'right' in the last 15 years. Even the arch-socialist countries of Europe (aka France, etc) are still growing economically, albeit slowly! I have to draw the line at praising him though, in respect of the IR laws. You'll be largely insulated from them in your current job (which BTW now pays WAY more than 10 years ago primarily because mine pays better! I can run through the history of that if you like).
I sure as heck won't be! Keg brings up a very pertinent point. I too would be quite happy to have the same 'ground rules' applied as the CEO. Unfortunately though, corporate governance (if there is such a thing) in Australia just doesn't work like that. For example an Aussie CEO, far more so than an American CEO, can lead a viable company into oblivion and still walk away with millions.
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The Howard government does indeed have generally good economic sense, but they have also been fortunate to ride a wave of western prosperity in recent years. The same is true for many western governments, irrespective of whether their policies have lent to the 'left', 'centre' or 'right' in the last 15 years.
Mind you, its a 'right' govt (a loose term) in DC that is fiscally buggering that once great nation whilst alienating 7/8ths of the globe. Clinton handed over a reasonably sound fiscal machine in 2000.
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It is such a pity that the Jetstar Pilot Council didn't have the courage to turn down a crap deal. They could well take a page out of the book of the Jetstar Flight Attendants who have voted down their EBA or the Jetstar engineers who mangaged to squeeze the company for more money by announcing their intentions to conduct industrial action. The JPC really blew it for all aviators in this country... thanks boys.
I wish the Flight Attendants the best of luck in negotiating a better deal and congratulate them on having the courage to stand up and respect what they are worth.
I wish the Flight Attendants the best of luck in negotiating a better deal and congratulate them on having the courage to stand up and respect what they are worth.
The Reverend
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An interesting and thought provoking article from the New York Times.
By BOB BUCK
IT'S that time again — time for airlines to make pilot pay the burning issue in labor negotiations. At Delta Air Lines, pilot salaries are in arbitration; at Northwest Airlines, pilots are close to striking.
Why is pilot pay always such a source of contention? Perhaps because it seems so high. After all, a pilot can make as much as $220,000 a year for working only 85 hours a month.
But this is only part of the story. True, a handful of senior pilots make $220,000 a year, but 85 hours is only half true because pilots spend as much time planning flights, looking at weather, studying, training and sitting around airports waiting for delayed flights, as they do flying. The 85 hours is counted only from the time the airplane leaves the terminal until it arrives at its destination. What's more, this is the very top salary; a captain for a regional airline, for example, makes around $60,000 a year.
And it's not as if pilots haven't already taken a hit. The Delta pilots agreed to an annual pay cut of $1 billion, or 32.5 percent, in late 2004. (Now Delta is asking for an additional $305 million.) Their Northwest counterparts agreed to $265 million of cuts in 2004 and $215 million in temporary cuts last year. Now the company wants to cut $145 million more. Pilot pensions are in a similar state of disarray.
This is not to say that pilot pay isn't high relative to other lines of work. The high pay dates back to just after World War I, when airmail service, which was managed by the Post Office, was established. And to my mind, the pay was wholly justified.
Back then, flying was dangerous; no radio guidance, no instruments for bad weather, no de-icing equipment or radar to reveal thunderstorms. Flying was all contact, meaning that you stayed in visual contact with the ground. Trying to see ahead when fog or low clouds forced the pilot lower and lower, with no visibility; pilots lost their lives running into hillsides or unseen obstructions.
In exchange for risking life and limb, pilots were well paid. In 1924, the top salary was $8,000 a year, or close to $1 million in today's dollars. In 1938, when I started flying DC-3's for Transcontinental and Western Air (later Trans World Airlines), we still were paid more for flying at night and over mountains.
As flying became safer, pay was reduced but still remained high. How? The pilots formed a union, the Air Line Pilots Association, in 1931. The key man was David L. Behncke, a retired United Airlines pilot, who fought the airlines' attempt to have one industry-wide contract for pilots. By seeing to it that pilots had individual contracts with each airline, Behncke ensured that each negotiation could build on the one that came before it.
He also helped to keep salaries high by emphasizing productivity as well as safety. Behncke argued that a pilot hauling 400 passengers should make more than one transporting, say, 70 passengers. This was a winning tactic, though I was never certain that it was entirely accurate. Smaller planes are not necessarily any easier to fly. A 747 pilot, for example, takes off from New York and lands in Paris: one flight. A regional jet pilot, by comparison, can wind up making five stops during one day, or night — or making all his flights in the same lousy weather system.
People think that computers have made flying easier — you just turn on the autopilot and relax. Not so. Computers do many things, but they don't know what to do when a line of severe thunderstorms blocks the flight path, nor do they worry about marginal weather at destinations and what to do about reserve fuel and a host of possible situations that can be resolved only through human intelligence informed by experience.
There are simply too many situations that demand a professional in the cockpit. I've flown for a long time, and I can't begin to count the number of times I've heard a colleague say (or felt myself), "I earned my year's pay on that flight."
Here's just one story. In June of 1970, I was piloting a TWA 747 from Paris to New York. Forty minutes into the flight, TWA's Paris dispatch office called to tell me I had a bomb on board. According to the warning call they had received, the bomb was due to go off in 45 minutes.
We turned around and dived toward Paris. We started dumping fuel to get our weight down, but we didn't have time to reduce the weight to the legal landing limit.
Decision time: land and risk going off the end of the runway, or circle around dumping fuel before the bomb goes off? Landing a plane that's overweight takes up runway space. I visualized what was off the runway's end: farmland. I concluded that it was probably worth the risk, even though we'd knock out lights at the end of the runway as we slammed through.
Thankfully, we landed safely. The passengers were evacuated down the slides while still far from the terminal. (Officials didn't want us nearby in case we blew up.) The only injury was a fracture in a flight attendant's ankle. They never found a bomb.
Airline pilots go through stuff like this all the time. This is why they deserve to be paid decently (if not extravagantly). It's for this reason that I hope the union will remain strong as it works with Delta and Northwest (and whoever's next) on problems of pay, retirement and safety. As they talk, pilots, I know, will do their job of getting airplanes from departure to destination safely. After all, the pilot is on board, too — a fact that should be respected, but not taken for granted.
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Fellow pilots after some serious navel contemplation and soul searching, I believe BA Lert, Casper LTBC and all the other QF Management stooges are correct.
So it's off to re-education camp for the lot of us until we have all collectively learnt by rote the company mantra,
NOW chant after me
ALL DAY,EVERY DAY, LOW PAY
OMMM.
So it's off to re-education camp for the lot of us until we have all collectively learnt by rote the company mantra,
NOW chant after me
ALL DAY,EVERY DAY, LOW PAY
OMMM.
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Hey Max - I resent that. I can't speak for the others you name but I am NOT a QF Management stooge, just a logical and pragmatic thinker who's living in the 21st century. After that libel, I'm now making an appointment to instruct Slater and Gordon to take appropriate action!
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Hey Max,
Our glorious leaders say "frank and forthright" is no longer ok. Now that they can't grandstand on company money its
If it wasn't so tragic it would be hilarious! What a waste!
Our glorious leaders say "frank and forthright" is no longer ok. Now that they can't grandstand on company money its
This episode is a complete departure from the amicable and cooperative arrangements that have existed between AIPA and past Qantas Management, and I hope and am confident that this will prove to be a temporary episode.
Just Binos
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Guess that must make me one of them there Qantas stooges too. I'm sure Casper would be equally amused at the irony.
Still shooting the messenger, Max? I know, it's a lot easier that way, isn't it? If you're good enough at it, you never have to hear anything you don't like, which brings us back to the nine year old with his hands over his ears yelling "I can't hear you!"
Still shooting the messenger, Max? I know, it's a lot easier that way, isn't it? If you're good enough at it, you never have to hear anything you don't like, which brings us back to the nine year old with his hands over his ears yelling "I can't hear you!"
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Originally Posted by Binoculars
...Still shooting the messenger, Max? I know, it's a lot easier that way, isn't it? If you're good enough at it, you never have to hear anything you don't like, which brings us back to the nine year old with his hands over his ears yelling "I can't hear you!"
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I'm certainly no management stoogie. Just trying to get some of you guys to realise that you are now in the real world, one vastly different to that when many of you first entered the holy halls of the red rat. GD has turned those halls into a battleground and many of you have yet to notice it! Some good advice has been offered on this post - just think about it.
"Sometimes he sits and thinks and othertimes he just sits!"
Please don't claim that you weren't warned.
"Sometimes he sits and thinks and othertimes he just sits!"
Please don't claim that you weren't warned.
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The article by Bob Buck is extremely selective.
“People think that computers have made flying easier — you just turn on the autopilot and relax”
Computers have made flying infinitely easier and do indeed enable the pilot to relax. Sometimes even fall asleep.
“. . . . nor do they worry about marginal weather at destinations. . . .”
The aircraft that I fly is capable of Cat III landings in zero viz, let alone “marginal” weather.
“. . . and what to do about reserve fuel . .”
What exactly do you “do” with reserve fuel that the FMC doesn’t calculate for you?
“Airline pilots go through stuff like this all the time”
What utter nonsense. I have never met an airline pilot that has been subject to a bomb threat. It is extremely rare and something for which the QRH is designed to cope with.
“People think that computers have made flying easier — you just turn on the autopilot and relax”
Computers have made flying infinitely easier and do indeed enable the pilot to relax. Sometimes even fall asleep.
“. . . . nor do they worry about marginal weather at destinations. . . .”
The aircraft that I fly is capable of Cat III landings in zero viz, let alone “marginal” weather.
“. . . and what to do about reserve fuel . .”
What exactly do you “do” with reserve fuel that the FMC doesn’t calculate for you?
“Airline pilots go through stuff like this all the time”
What utter nonsense. I have never met an airline pilot that has been subject to a bomb threat. It is extremely rare and something for which the QRH is designed to cope with.
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Originally Posted by oicur12
The article by Bob Buck is extremely selective.
“People think that computers have made flying easier — you just turn on the autopilot and relax”
Computers have made flying infinitely easier and do indeed enable the pilot to relax. Sometimes even fall asleep.
“. . . . nor do they worry about marginal weather at destinations. . . .”
The aircraft that I fly is capable of Cat III landings in zero viz, let alone “marginal” weather.
“. . . and what to do about reserve fuel . .”
What exactly do you “do” with reserve fuel that the FMC doesn’t calculate for you?
“Airline pilots go through stuff like this all the time”
What utter nonsense. I have never met an airline pilot that has been subject to a bomb threat. It is extremely rare and something for which the QRH is designed to cope with.
“People think that computers have made flying easier — you just turn on the autopilot and relax”
Computers have made flying infinitely easier and do indeed enable the pilot to relax. Sometimes even fall asleep.
“. . . . nor do they worry about marginal weather at destinations. . . .”
The aircraft that I fly is capable of Cat III landings in zero viz, let alone “marginal” weather.
“. . . and what to do about reserve fuel . .”
What exactly do you “do” with reserve fuel that the FMC doesn’t calculate for you?
“Airline pilots go through stuff like this all the time”
What utter nonsense. I have never met an airline pilot that has been subject to a bomb threat. It is extremely rare and something for which the QRH is designed to cope with.
Just love these "shiny butt Baron to Boeing NG Capts" that think Cat111a Autoland whilst having a coffee is bad WEATHER, and that the QRH solves all evils.....Shows a fundimental deficiency in Maturity with this RELIANCE on all that is electronic and that is what is scary about modern Aviation.