Geoff Dixon Writes To 2600 Pilots, Threatens Union Payment Cuts
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Johnny Utah,
I suggest you use more accurate information when presenting an argument.
A 744 First Officer with SQ would be closer to 150,000 SG (give or take) – roughly 130,000 AUD. Most Captains in SQ would be pushing to earn as much as your First Officers – assuming your 240,000 AUD is referring to a Qantas 744 FO which I assume it is. QF SO’s for almost the same cost as competitors FO’s are unable to crew the aircraft other than as SO’s. Many airlines competing with QF around Asia pay lower salaries than QF.
Salary aside, QF has inefficiencies built into the system of crewing aircraft that Jetstar is being used to circumvent. Blank lines is an example. Crewing compliments likewise – many of QF’s competitors in the region operate similar aircraft on similar sectors with 1 less crew member than QF. At one stage, QF was even running domestic sectors with an SO.
I suggest you use more accurate information when presenting an argument.
A 744 First Officer with SQ would be closer to 150,000 SG (give or take) – roughly 130,000 AUD. Most Captains in SQ would be pushing to earn as much as your First Officers – assuming your 240,000 AUD is referring to a Qantas 744 FO which I assume it is. QF SO’s for almost the same cost as competitors FO’s are unable to crew the aircraft other than as SO’s. Many airlines competing with QF around Asia pay lower salaries than QF.
Salary aside, QF has inefficiencies built into the system of crewing aircraft that Jetstar is being used to circumvent. Blank lines is an example. Crewing compliments likewise – many of QF’s competitors in the region operate similar aircraft on similar sectors with 1 less crew member than QF. At one stage, QF was even running domestic sectors with an SO.
Sorry Prof, but I just had to weigh in on this one;
They still do. But the reason is for positioning the SO rather than having to occupy a revenue seat.
And I don't know of any FO in QF earning $240,000 AUD per annum.
At one stage, QF was even running domestic sectors with an SO.
And I don't know of any FO in QF earning $240,000 AUD per annum.
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Oh spare me.
QF were (not long ago – 3-4 years maybe) rostering SO’s on SYD-PER-SYD returns as crew, not positioning, according to friends in the company.
I don’t know of any QF FO earning 240k either, I was just responding to a post by someone using such figures. The point still remains that Johnny utah is way off with his salary comparisons and should use more accurate info.
QF were (not long ago – 3-4 years maybe) rostering SO’s on SYD-PER-SYD returns as crew, not positioning, according to friends in the company.
I don’t know of any QF FO earning 240k either, I was just responding to a post by someone using such figures. The point still remains that Johnny utah is way off with his salary comparisons and should use more accurate info.
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I understand many of the arguments put forward in this forum....Furthermore, I appreciate reading other peoples thoughts... they help me to understand the issues at hand and broaden my outlook…
However, I believe the time has definitely come to stand up to GD (an overt supporter and 'Vanguard' of the Howard Government’s new IR legislation). The CEO and QF shareholders are NOT the only people who should be rewarded for the relative success of the company….
There are thousands of other workers (Engineers, Cabin Crew, Ground Staff, Support staff and Pilots) who deserve respect and appreciation for their efforts towards the recent success of Qantas… Some may argue that I am being too idealistic. However, allowing GD to continually berate and scare his staff is just plain WRONG. He has been in the position long enough…. Much of what is happening, particularly between GD and AIPA is based on EGO and long term frustration.… He must be removed and replaced with an individual who can rebuild the damage already done...
Why – Because the employee culture has suffered severely due to this obvious lack of respect, the constant instability due to poorly managed change and the perceived (yet obvious) inequality between QF workforce and QF management re-numeration levels. If these problems are not addressed adequately and as a priority, the company’s recent success is NOT SUSTAINABLE….
I would also suggest that investment analysts and institutional investors have started to cotton on to these critical issues…
Let’s not forget – this airline made $1,000,000,000 PROFIT (before tax) last year! What amount of profit will be enough?... Most shareholders are average Australians who just want to own a small part of a successful Aussie ICON…. If GD is left to continue on his profit hungry campaign QF will be far from Australian…
I also agree that QF may need to become more efficient in some areas. However, if the company’s Senior Management were to engage their workforce and cease from dividing and alienating their employees – they would be amazed at the efficiencies their very own people could find!! I can guarantee that pilot’s flying the line know any airline’s operation and areas of possible savings far better than most number crunchers in an office. However, if QF Management continue to treat their people purely as a resource (and not as an ASSET that can value add) they will have to push their so called ‘efficiencies’ through causing extreme heartache to employees, management, customers and god forbid - shareholders…
However, I believe the time has definitely come to stand up to GD (an overt supporter and 'Vanguard' of the Howard Government’s new IR legislation). The CEO and QF shareholders are NOT the only people who should be rewarded for the relative success of the company….
There are thousands of other workers (Engineers, Cabin Crew, Ground Staff, Support staff and Pilots) who deserve respect and appreciation for their efforts towards the recent success of Qantas… Some may argue that I am being too idealistic. However, allowing GD to continually berate and scare his staff is just plain WRONG. He has been in the position long enough…. Much of what is happening, particularly between GD and AIPA is based on EGO and long term frustration.… He must be removed and replaced with an individual who can rebuild the damage already done...
Why – Because the employee culture has suffered severely due to this obvious lack of respect, the constant instability due to poorly managed change and the perceived (yet obvious) inequality between QF workforce and QF management re-numeration levels. If these problems are not addressed adequately and as a priority, the company’s recent success is NOT SUSTAINABLE….
I would also suggest that investment analysts and institutional investors have started to cotton on to these critical issues…
Let’s not forget – this airline made $1,000,000,000 PROFIT (before tax) last year! What amount of profit will be enough?... Most shareholders are average Australians who just want to own a small part of a successful Aussie ICON…. If GD is left to continue on his profit hungry campaign QF will be far from Australian…
I also agree that QF may need to become more efficient in some areas. However, if the company’s Senior Management were to engage their workforce and cease from dividing and alienating their employees – they would be amazed at the efficiencies their very own people could find!! I can guarantee that pilot’s flying the line know any airline’s operation and areas of possible savings far better than most number crunchers in an office. However, if QF Management continue to treat their people purely as a resource (and not as an ASSET that can value add) they will have to push their so called ‘efficiencies’ through causing extreme heartache to employees, management, customers and god forbid - shareholders…
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Originally Posted by OhSpareMe
Sorry Prof, but I just had to weigh in on this one;
They still do. But the reason is for positioning the SO rather than having to occupy a revenue seat. And I don't know of any FO in QF earning $240,000 AUD per annum.
They still do. But the reason is for positioning the SO rather than having to occupy a revenue seat. And I don't know of any FO in QF earning $240,000 AUD per annum.
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Prof,
How exactly are blank lines ineffecient? If the company has got their crewing levels correct (which is what management are paid to do) then blankliners will be worked up to the minimum guaranteed hours, which is what the company pays them. Hours worked = Hours paid. After that, the company can make them work more hours, which gives the company greater flexibility with unforseen flying/sickness/training etc.
As far as SOs on SYD-PER-SYD, they were there because the TOD was over 11 hours, so it's a CASA requirement, nothing to do with the company or the pilots. Domestic have an exemption for this. Not sure why the exemption doesn't apply to longhaul, but London to a brick if the company could have pressured CASA into it, they would have. Anyway, effeciencies and legalities aside, if your family were travelling on a back of the clock sector with pilots doing 11+ hr TODs, would you want the SO there? I know I would.
How exactly are blank lines ineffecient? If the company has got their crewing levels correct (which is what management are paid to do) then blankliners will be worked up to the minimum guaranteed hours, which is what the company pays them. Hours worked = Hours paid. After that, the company can make them work more hours, which gives the company greater flexibility with unforseen flying/sickness/training etc.
As far as SOs on SYD-PER-SYD, they were there because the TOD was over 11 hours, so it's a CASA requirement, nothing to do with the company or the pilots. Domestic have an exemption for this. Not sure why the exemption doesn't apply to longhaul, but London to a brick if the company could have pressured CASA into it, they would have. Anyway, effeciencies and legalities aside, if your family were travelling on a back of the clock sector with pilots doing 11+ hr TODs, would you want the SO there? I know I would.
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Well Datum your views are very appealing emotionally, but they woon't "cut the mustard" with Darth and his advisors.
Our loss is his gain (read "bonus"). He's shown over the previous several years that he doesn't care about the hardship he inflicts on other (lesser) mortals.
Browsing another forum, I cam across this interesting article GOD and the QANTAS pilot, which points out Dixon's Achilles Heel.
The time draws near for command decisions to be made.
Our loss is his gain (read "bonus"). He's shown over the previous several years that he doesn't care about the hardship he inflicts on other (lesser) mortals.
Browsing another forum, I cam across this interesting article GOD and the QANTAS pilot, which points out Dixon's Achilles Heel.
The time draws near for command decisions to be made.
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QF Pilots pervert Crikey campaign
Crikey was trying a bit of shareholder activism to question the wisdom of benchmarking GD and other senior exec packages against the world's top decile: http://www.crikey.com.au/articles/20...1523-3464.html
Meanwhile the people quoting Sun Tsu should understand this: Sun Tsu was not fighting his own divisional commanders; his enemies were the generals of other armies. To that extent, GD and the pilots are all supposed to be on the same side, because the battle is supposed to be between QF and other airlines.
Applying Sun Tsu to business is just an allegory... And it's not one that is conveniently adapted to a smaller-scale conflict, IMO...
Good luck QF drivers. And don't be naive.
VHCU
Meanwhile the people quoting Sun Tsu should understand this: Sun Tsu was not fighting his own divisional commanders; his enemies were the generals of other armies. To that extent, GD and the pilots are all supposed to be on the same side, because the battle is supposed to be between QF and other airlines.
Applying Sun Tsu to business is just an allegory... And it's not one that is conveniently adapted to a smaller-scale conflict, IMO...
Good luck QF drivers. And don't be naive.
VHCU
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Can anyone tell me what are the average annual hours flown by QF Capt's and F/O's on long haul and short haul.
That should put the question of productivity to rest.
That should put the question of productivity to rest.
I would like to see, and this is not airline specific, our salaries pegged to the CEO's salary.
Work out what the CEO gets as a package (so he/she can't shift bits into bonses etc) and then decide on what is a reasonable percentage for a F/O and Capt.
Then everytime the CEO awards themselves a payrise we get one too.
It is an established practice in our environment - F/O's get a % of a Captains wage, why shouldn't it extend to CEO's?
So what is $220 000 as a percentage of 7 mill? A bit over 3%.
So in Dixon's opinion the average Captain is worth a mere 3% of what he is worth to the company.
Hmmmmmm
Work out what the CEO gets as a package (so he/she can't shift bits into bonses etc) and then decide on what is a reasonable percentage for a F/O and Capt.
Then everytime the CEO awards themselves a payrise we get one too.
It is an established practice in our environment - F/O's get a % of a Captains wage, why shouldn't it extend to CEO's?
So what is $220 000 as a percentage of 7 mill? A bit over 3%.
So in Dixon's opinion the average Captain is worth a mere 3% of what he is worth to the company.
Hmmmmmm
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Don't think you can compare the two on flying hours alone ...
Some people could argue that shorthaul are more productive per hour flown. Doing multisector days, they log less flying hours than longhaul for the same tour of duty. In other words, they have to work longer per hour flown.
Some people could argue that longhaul are more productive as they carry more bums on seats, carry higher revenue business and first pax, mostly night flying with multiple time zone changes etc.
Not saying who is right or wrong, just that the two hauls are completely different flying.
Some people could argue that shorthaul are more productive per hour flown. Doing multisector days, they log less flying hours than longhaul for the same tour of duty. In other words, they have to work longer per hour flown.
Some people could argue that longhaul are more productive as they carry more bums on seats, carry higher revenue business and first pax, mostly night flying with multiple time zone changes etc.
Not saying who is right or wrong, just that the two hauls are completely different flying.
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It varies from fleet to fleet and is a function of the route structures and the two different awards, longhaul and shorthaul.
If I was to hazard a guess:
737: 850-1000 hours
747-400: 800-850 Capts and FO's, up to 900 hours for SO's
747 classic: God knows due to small fleet and wildly varying flying program.
A330: 650-700 hours due to mainly regional flying program. i.e. Can be inefficient due to a lot of destinations not having daily services... NRT BOM PVG and PEK etc.
767: 650-700 hours due flying mainly inefficient domestic trunk routes. i.e. usually 1.20 block times.
If I was to hazard a guess:
737: 850-1000 hours
747-400: 800-850 Capts and FO's, up to 900 hours for SO's
747 classic: God knows due to small fleet and wildly varying flying program.
A330: 650-700 hours due to mainly regional flying program. i.e. Can be inefficient due to a lot of destinations not having daily services... NRT BOM PVG and PEK etc.
767: 650-700 hours due flying mainly inefficient domestic trunk routes. i.e. usually 1.20 block times.
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I would like to see, and this is not airline specific, our salaries pegged to the CEO's salary.
What we should not accept is downward pressure on salaries from management and/or other pilot groups at a time when the company is making record profits.
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The CEO and QF shareholders are NOT the only people who should be rewarded for the relative success of the company….
There are thousands of other workers (Engineers, Cabin Crew, Ground Staff, Support staff and Pilots) who deserve respect and appreciation for their efforts towards the recent success of Qantas
There are thousands of other workers (Engineers, Cabin Crew, Ground Staff, Support staff and Pilots) who deserve respect and appreciation for their efforts towards the recent success of Qantas
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Originally Posted by Ronnie Honker
Well Datum your views are very appealing emotionally, but they woon't "cut the mustard" with Darth and his advisors.
Our loss is his gain (read "bonus"). He's shown over the previous several years that he doesn't care about the hardship he inflicts on other (lesser) mortals.
Browsing another forum, I cam across this interesting article GOD and the QANTAS pilot, which points out Dixon's Achilles Heel.
The time draws near for command decisions to be made.
Our loss is his gain (read "bonus"). He's shown over the previous several years that he doesn't care about the hardship he inflicts on other (lesser) mortals.
Browsing another forum, I cam across this interesting article GOD and the QANTAS pilot, which points out Dixon's Achilles Heel.
The time draws near for command decisions to be made.
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Maybe putting pilot's (and other workers) salary at risk is a possible solution...However, in the case of Flight Crew I reckon it would raise concerns within the safety department.
My point is – IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE MONEY!!!
GD and QF Senior Managers DO NOT value their workforce. This is clearly evident by the fact that they continually 'benchmark' their employees against the CHEAPEST alternatives available (ie: QF Pilots v Jetstar/Virgin, OS based Cabin Crew and Chinese Maintenance workers)...
Clearly, they do not adequately value the quality of the product and/or the service their current employees work to provide….what is worse is that they denigrate and berate their staff in the public forum. It is an absolute disgrace. I cannot understand how the Board allows this behavior to go on..
Not surprisingly, this lack of respect is a two way problem. Any organisation in which it's so called leaders are not respected has significant problems!
My point is – IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE MONEY!!!
GD and QF Senior Managers DO NOT value their workforce. This is clearly evident by the fact that they continually 'benchmark' their employees against the CHEAPEST alternatives available (ie: QF Pilots v Jetstar/Virgin, OS based Cabin Crew and Chinese Maintenance workers)...
Clearly, they do not adequately value the quality of the product and/or the service their current employees work to provide….what is worse is that they denigrate and berate their staff in the public forum. It is an absolute disgrace. I cannot understand how the Board allows this behavior to go on..
Not surprisingly, this lack of respect is a two way problem. Any organisation in which it's so called leaders are not respected has significant problems!
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Obviously you think more of yourself than your employer does.
Stuff like
only re-inforces in other pilots' (and the public) minds the opinion many have always held of Qantas pilots - that you think you are superior beings to all others.
So in a way, some people might feel that what is about to happen, is long overdue.
Sorry.
Stuff like
the CHEAPEST alternatives available (ie: QF Pilots v Jetstar/Virgin
So in a way, some people might feel that what is about to happen, is long overdue.
Sorry.
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We all enjoy reading your informative posts, AniMOSity. The constructive criticism, the profound thinking....I could go on, but I know it will only be a waste of time.
Go and take a dose of Andrews Liver Salts for your sol.
Go and take a dose of Andrews Liver Salts for your sol.