Pilots ready to fight Jetstar in court
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BA Lert,
That's a very low salary, even in the bankruptcy environment of America. I saw Hawker 800 pilots earning much more than that in 1999. Regional Pilots at Comair, the bankrupt subsidiary of Delta were making $130,000 US to fly a Canadair RJ up until last month. At the last count of exchange, Aus $183,000.
It's the old saying, "lead follow...or get out of the way".
The question is; exactly where is this latest Jetstar offering leading the Australian industry?
It sure looks like... right off a cliff!
That's a very low salary, even in the bankruptcy environment of America. I saw Hawker 800 pilots earning much more than that in 1999. Regional Pilots at Comair, the bankrupt subsidiary of Delta were making $130,000 US to fly a Canadair RJ up until last month. At the last count of exchange, Aus $183,000.
It's the old saying, "lead follow...or get out of the way".
The question is; exactly where is this latest Jetstar offering leading the Australian industry?
It sure looks like... right off a cliff!
Last edited by Chris Higgins; 11th Mar 2006 at 21:23.
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B A Lert is right. You have the choice to stay or go. You knew what the lifestyle was before you took up the job... or you were an idiot to take the job in the first place.
If conditions changed AFTER you joined the company (no matter which company) your union/association would have/should have warned you and you could have made a stand for your principles.
Be happy in your job. You enjoy the flying... you can live very well on your salary package... you can only operate (fly/duty) a maximum of so many hours per day/month/year by law. Are you being asked to do anything outside the law?... or anything extra?
If conditions changed AFTER you joined the company (no matter which company) your union/association would have/should have warned you and you could have made a stand for your principles.
Be happy in your job. You enjoy the flying... you can live very well on your salary package... you can only operate (fly/duty) a maximum of so many hours per day/month/year by law. Are you being asked to do anything outside the law?... or anything extra?
Grandpa Aerotart
Do you know that the J* deal only guarantees "free of duty at your Home Base for a minimum of 9 designated days off in 6 roster periods [months]".
Yep, promises are promises but the contract is the contract and that is what it says. So if the company so choose, days free of duty can be AWAY FROM HOME BASE - satisfies the CAO's, satisfies the contract.
Yep, promises are promises but the contract is the contract and that is what it says. So if the company so choose, days free of duty can be AWAY FROM HOME BASE - satisfies the CAO's, satisfies the contract.
J* pilots, be they domestic or under the International EBA get 9 days at HOME per MTH some mths and 10 days at home in other mths...IF they, for some reason or another, DO NOT get that then those days are carried over and they will get them in the next mth on top of that mths normal number
The JPC are not morons
Nunc est bibendum
Chimbu, this is from the J* award.
So, what does that say? Is that an inaccurate quote from the award? What are the words? Don't talk to me about intent when I read the words and know what they can mean. I flew the 767 as an F/O for 8 1/2 years with QF. Believe me, I know the difference between 'intent' and 'what is written in the award'. J* pilots may be getting nine days off at home at the moment, they may not always get that in the future.
The JPC recommended a substandard deal full of holes big enough to drive an A330 through. If they're not morons, what description is there that fits with recommending the deal with the above clauses in it?
25.1.3 “You will be rostered free of duty at your Home Base for minimum of 9 designated days off in 6 roster periods and 10 rostered days off in 6 roster periods. The minimum number of days off in a roster period for a pilot will be notified to the pilot no later than before the end of the preceding period.”
25.4.5 “If you are at a layover port, or assigned temporary duty away from home base, you will be rostered for days free of duty as required. We will use our best endeavours to ensure that such days do not detract from your basic entitlement to days off at your home base, except with your consent or at your request. You will be rostered for any days off accumulated under this provision upon return to your home base or where this is not possible, in the next roster period.”
25.4.5 “If you are at a layover port, or assigned temporary duty away from home base, you will be rostered for days free of duty as required. We will use our best endeavours to ensure that such days do not detract from your basic entitlement to days off at your home base, except with your consent or at your request. You will be rostered for any days off accumulated under this provision upon return to your home base or where this is not possible, in the next roster period.”
The JPC recommended a substandard deal full of holes big enough to drive an A330 through. If they're not morons, what description is there that fits with recommending the deal with the above clauses in it?
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My reading of the agreement is in the same light as you Keg...But although we have had plenty of problems with the 767 they won't. Gimme a break.. As I have said before they collectively need all the luck in the world...Leopards do not change their spots
They certainly will need their "best endeavours"..Where have we heard that before?
They certainly will need their "best endeavours"..Where have we heard that before?
Grandpa Aerotart
except with your consent or at your request. You will be rostered for any days off accumulated under this provision upon return to your home base or where this is not possible, in the next roster period.”
You will be
It doesn't say 'you may be' or 'if the mood takes us' or 'on a cold day in hell'.
Honestly guys read what it says not what you think it says.
No-one I know at J* is characterising this deal as fantastic....but they have the flying and if not enough pilots bid for longhaul the company must come back to them and ask why...if it takes more of this and that it will be up to them to negotiate those extra bits of dis an dat.
Read the clauses on DECs...aint gonna happen except for a very limited time under very limited circumstances...and then said dude goes back to the RHS and to a base his seniority dictates unless expansion keeps him in the LHS...that means until every current J* pilot has been given the opportunity to change seats...but even then not necesarily in the same base. If they had voted 'no' it is highly likley that the situation would have been very different....they are convinced, and with good reason IMHO, that QF would have been INNUNDATED with applications...in fact QF was already innundated prior to the EBA vote.
I was just discussing the EBA document at length with a J* Captain mate this morning....when approached without the emotion and hyperbole issueing forth from AIPA, and it's members, the various clauses do have a basis in reason...and it can only get better.
Judging on the historical performance of the JPC (they got something like a 40% improvement in their pay in the last 4 years - 90k+various--->126kish+various) who among you wants to bet they may not achieve something similar in the next several.
I really don't think AIPA should be throwing stones at JPC guys
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 11th Mar 2006 at 15:55.
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Chimbu,
You should know better having operated O/S for quite some time. You have seen some expat lifestyle and I think you would look behind the scenes before posting your last post which cannot go unanswered. I have enjoyed your stories from PNG and your tales from your Fathers era. However:
Claim:
Judging on the historical performance of the JPC (they got something like a 40% improvement in their pay in the last 4 years - 90k+various--->126kish+various) who among you wants to bet they may not achieve something similar in the next several.
How does AIPA compare in this regard?
Fact:
Without the input of the then President of AIPA (Chris Manning) the Impulse Pilots would still to this day be working under the auspices of the Trust that was set up by a few senior pilots to circumvent Industrial Relations law. AIPA helped out in that situation. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
Fact:
Without the input of the then President of AIPA (Robin Holt) the Jetstar Pilots would not have their "Retention Bonus" (approximately 6% of their salary). Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
I was there for both and I know what happened. Most new players have no idea what was involved including some of the JPC. John H knows what happened as does Craig G, Brad C, Joe O and Brook A. They were there when it happened and if you ask them I am sure they would verify it.
“No-one I know at J* is characterising this deal as fantastic....but they have the flying and if not enough pilots bid for longhaul the company must come back to them and ask why...if it takes more of this and that it will be up to them to negotiate those extra bits of dis an dat.”
Naïve in the extreme. Jetstar will relax the criteria to ensure that the positions are filled. There will be no recourse, and all direct entry Captains will never be FO’s. I’ll bet London to a brick with you on this one.
“Read the clauses on DECs...aint gonna happen except for a very limited time under very limited circumstances...and then said dude goes back to the RHS and to a base his seniority dictates unless expansion keeps him in the LHS.”
Not one DEC has ever been relegated to the RHS. It will never happen and Jetstar will not honour seniority. It is one of the mainline “legacies” that they (managers) detest!
“From memory all the really juicy bits of the long haul award were negotiated in the late 60s and into the 70s....by AFAP....before QF pilots decided Dick Holt was a goose and broke away from AFAP and formed AIPA...what has AIPA achieved for it's members in recent history...say the last 15 yrs?
I really don't think AIPA should be throwing stones at JPC guys ”
With all due respect, you have no idea of what you are talking about.
The major conditions in the Longhaul EBA were gained by taking a pay freeze (EBA 5 Min Guarantee 151 hours), EBA 6 (Minimum Daily Credit) and EBA 7 (Loss of Licence paid by Co. $700k).
AIPA has set the benchmark for Pilots in the Southern Hemisphere for many years.
The fact that others now choose the undercut/undermine those benchmarks is of major concern. Even more worrying is that supposedly educated men seem to be compliant in undermining the conditions of others is accepted by people such as you.
Tall Poppy syndrome exists where I would have least expected, a fellow professional. I hope we can make the conditions acceptable to the point that you can one day come home and join others in the job.
As others don’t take aim at your expatriate conditions, you should not comment on conditions that you do not work under and have no real understanding of.
You should know better having operated O/S for quite some time. You have seen some expat lifestyle and I think you would look behind the scenes before posting your last post which cannot go unanswered. I have enjoyed your stories from PNG and your tales from your Fathers era. However:
Claim:
Judging on the historical performance of the JPC (they got something like a 40% improvement in their pay in the last 4 years - 90k+various--->126kish+various) who among you wants to bet they may not achieve something similar in the next several.
How does AIPA compare in this regard?
Fact:
Without the input of the then President of AIPA (Chris Manning) the Impulse Pilots would still to this day be working under the auspices of the Trust that was set up by a few senior pilots to circumvent Industrial Relations law. AIPA helped out in that situation. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
Fact:
Without the input of the then President of AIPA (Robin Holt) the Jetstar Pilots would not have their "Retention Bonus" (approximately 6% of their salary). Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
I was there for both and I know what happened. Most new players have no idea what was involved including some of the JPC. John H knows what happened as does Craig G, Brad C, Joe O and Brook A. They were there when it happened and if you ask them I am sure they would verify it.
“No-one I know at J* is characterising this deal as fantastic....but they have the flying and if not enough pilots bid for longhaul the company must come back to them and ask why...if it takes more of this and that it will be up to them to negotiate those extra bits of dis an dat.”
Naïve in the extreme. Jetstar will relax the criteria to ensure that the positions are filled. There will be no recourse, and all direct entry Captains will never be FO’s. I’ll bet London to a brick with you on this one.
“Read the clauses on DECs...aint gonna happen except for a very limited time under very limited circumstances...and then said dude goes back to the RHS and to a base his seniority dictates unless expansion keeps him in the LHS.”
Not one DEC has ever been relegated to the RHS. It will never happen and Jetstar will not honour seniority. It is one of the mainline “legacies” that they (managers) detest!
“From memory all the really juicy bits of the long haul award were negotiated in the late 60s and into the 70s....by AFAP....before QF pilots decided Dick Holt was a goose and broke away from AFAP and formed AIPA...what has AIPA achieved for it's members in recent history...say the last 15 yrs?
I really don't think AIPA should be throwing stones at JPC guys ”
With all due respect, you have no idea of what you are talking about.
The major conditions in the Longhaul EBA were gained by taking a pay freeze (EBA 5 Min Guarantee 151 hours), EBA 6 (Minimum Daily Credit) and EBA 7 (Loss of Licence paid by Co. $700k).
AIPA has set the benchmark for Pilots in the Southern Hemisphere for many years.
The fact that others now choose the undercut/undermine those benchmarks is of major concern. Even more worrying is that supposedly educated men seem to be compliant in undermining the conditions of others is accepted by people such as you.
Tall Poppy syndrome exists where I would have least expected, a fellow professional. I hope we can make the conditions acceptable to the point that you can one day come home and join others in the job.
As others don’t take aim at your expatriate conditions, you should not comment on conditions that you do not work under and have no real understanding of.
Last edited by Agent Mulder; 11th Mar 2006 at 13:49.
Grandpa Aerotart
Your basic premise then is that J* will not honour the contract and that all clauses should be viewed in the worst possible light despite their very clear wording?
That has not been the J* experience to date.
Don't get me wrong...I would love nothing better than all QF group pilots on one seniority list and everyone working together....but it doesn't seem like they have all been herded into the same corner yet...the way management is going these days across many industries I actually think that will happen...at some point.
I appologise if my last post hit a raw nerve or went a little far...I'll go back and modify it, however I too know a few of the key players....and I am a bit sick of seeing them characterised as industrially naive morons hell bent on destroying the aspirations of all Australian pilots while swan diving into the bottom of the barrel. Particularly when the arguments revolve around missinterpreting basic english and assuming J* management will just unilaterally modify the EBA as it suits them to do so...despite precedent upon precedent of them not doing so to date.
The senior pilots at J* have been through the aviation mill to a far greater extent than most QF mainline pilots. To suggest they have some degree of responibility towards every other pilot in D&G from those just starting out to the most senior mainline 744 captain is just rediculous.
AIPA has historically looked after AIPA members....to varying extents it seems. To suggest they have ever placed anyone elses aspirations ahead of their own, including those that have turned from poacher to game keeper, is just ignoring history...if not attempting to rewrite it...AIPA has not shown the slightest interest in J* until it suddenly occurred to them that they MIGHT be a threat to their own conditions.
Like the HKAoA you, collectively, seem to expect someone else to fight your (perceived) battle...say no guys and we'll stand by you...where is the precedent for that?
From what I heard in the last day or so 90% of J* pilots voted and 75% of those voted 'yes'...quite a turnout.
In the meantime, if it's ok with you, I would like to continue participating from time to time...hopefully, more often than not, with a little perspective
That has not been the J* experience to date.
Don't get me wrong...I would love nothing better than all QF group pilots on one seniority list and everyone working together....but it doesn't seem like they have all been herded into the same corner yet...the way management is going these days across many industries I actually think that will happen...at some point.
I appologise if my last post hit a raw nerve or went a little far...I'll go back and modify it, however I too know a few of the key players....and I am a bit sick of seeing them characterised as industrially naive morons hell bent on destroying the aspirations of all Australian pilots while swan diving into the bottom of the barrel. Particularly when the arguments revolve around missinterpreting basic english and assuming J* management will just unilaterally modify the EBA as it suits them to do so...despite precedent upon precedent of them not doing so to date.
The senior pilots at J* have been through the aviation mill to a far greater extent than most QF mainline pilots. To suggest they have some degree of responibility towards every other pilot in D&G from those just starting out to the most senior mainline 744 captain is just rediculous.
AIPA has historically looked after AIPA members....to varying extents it seems. To suggest they have ever placed anyone elses aspirations ahead of their own, including those that have turned from poacher to game keeper, is just ignoring history...if not attempting to rewrite it...AIPA has not shown the slightest interest in J* until it suddenly occurred to them that they MIGHT be a threat to their own conditions.
Like the HKAoA you, collectively, seem to expect someone else to fight your (perceived) battle...say no guys and we'll stand by you...where is the precedent for that?
From what I heard in the last day or so 90% of J* pilots voted and 75% of those voted 'yes'...quite a turnout.
In the meantime, if it's ok with you, I would like to continue participating from time to time...hopefully, more often than not, with a little perspective
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murgatroid and Transition Layer.
If you read the bottom line I said I didn`t agree with it but it is the way it is.
The lifestyle you leave is a reflection of the income you take home and the hours you work. Thats pretty bloody simple. So if you can`t live the way you want on the salary and conditions you are employed under then you go and find a new job or employer. That holds true for the 15y.o at MacDonalds right through to, well even you as a pilot.
My point is the local carriers don`t have to pay what the overseas ones do because there are enough guys who WANT to WORK and LIVE in AUSTRALIA. NOT IN DUBAI, HONG KONG or SINGAPORE.
For F&^K sake. Is that logic so hard to comprehend!
You call me a tool for stating a fact. An observation that the industry in this country is in a position it has been heading for since long before you became a pilot.
Your quote "it doesn`t take long for an international jetsetter lifestyle to wear thin". What did you become a pilot for then. Go and work in G.A or for a regional and be home every night. No you wont do that because they DON`T PAY ENOUGH!!!!
If you read the bottom line I said I didn`t agree with it but it is the way it is.
The lifestyle you leave is a reflection of the income you take home and the hours you work. Thats pretty bloody simple. So if you can`t live the way you want on the salary and conditions you are employed under then you go and find a new job or employer. That holds true for the 15y.o at MacDonalds right through to, well even you as a pilot.
My point is the local carriers don`t have to pay what the overseas ones do because there are enough guys who WANT to WORK and LIVE in AUSTRALIA. NOT IN DUBAI, HONG KONG or SINGAPORE.
For F&^K sake. Is that logic so hard to comprehend!
You call me a tool for stating a fact. An observation that the industry in this country is in a position it has been heading for since long before you became a pilot.
Your quote "it doesn`t take long for an international jetsetter lifestyle to wear thin". What did you become a pilot for then. Go and work in G.A or for a regional and be home every night. No you wont do that because they DON`T PAY ENOUGH!!!!
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This claim of a 40% pay rise negotiated by the JPC as against 3% average rises for AIPA is the biggest furphy of the lot.
The only achievement of the JPC is a 40 % rise for pilots flying the B1900 to fly anything up to an A380.
Yes, you read correctly. The JPC in their wisdom reckon that the jump from a 19 seater to a 550 seater is worth a 40 % pay rise. These guys are GENIUSES!
Whilst AIPA has been negotiating cost of living increase on established types and rates, the JPC has been busily undercutting everyone else to get to the next shiny jet at an average of 50% less than the going rate.
Whilst A380 rates are yet to be finalised, the discount on the raw rate for an aircraft like the B744 is something like 60% less. Thats not even factoring doing the flying on the exemption. These Einsteins couldn't even get credit for doing long haul flying with generally one less pilot than mainline.
You look at the above and you start to see the enormity of the damage that the JPC have done.
RH, don't tell me that you have done well whilst AIPA negotiated peppercorns.
With your casting vote on the JPC to accept this crap deal, you have initiated a tsunami that will sweep away hard won T&C's for a pittance. I hope you can live with yourself.
The only achievement of the JPC is a 40 % rise for pilots flying the B1900 to fly anything up to an A380.
Yes, you read correctly. The JPC in their wisdom reckon that the jump from a 19 seater to a 550 seater is worth a 40 % pay rise. These guys are GENIUSES!
Whilst AIPA has been negotiating cost of living increase on established types and rates, the JPC has been busily undercutting everyone else to get to the next shiny jet at an average of 50% less than the going rate.
Whilst A380 rates are yet to be finalised, the discount on the raw rate for an aircraft like the B744 is something like 60% less. Thats not even factoring doing the flying on the exemption. These Einsteins couldn't even get credit for doing long haul flying with generally one less pilot than mainline.
You look at the above and you start to see the enormity of the damage that the JPC have done.
RH, don't tell me that you have done well whilst AIPA negotiated peppercorns.
With your casting vote on the JPC to accept this crap deal, you have initiated a tsunami that will sweep away hard won T&C's for a pittance. I hope you can live with yourself.
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I have said It once and I will say it again, one group, one union one stand. That is our only hope! Or as birdseed23 says, you might as well live on your knees but still enjoy your very tiered days off in Aus on a s@#t house pay and conditions. But hay, your still living in Aus, so we are told.
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that foreign pilots are being offered contracts that pay USD10.5k, per month.
Last edited by ratpoison; 12th Mar 2006 at 23:01.
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Scheduling to Bloggs.
"Hi bloggs, we're quite busy at the moment so this roster we can only give you 5 days off at home base. You will have a few days off in Ho Chi Min though, and we'll repay them on your return. By the way, our basket of goods allowance system says your meal allowances are $5 for the trip - should buy you a nice satay from the street dood - have fun, lucky sod!".
"Oh your back Bloggs - how was Ho Chi Min? Enjoy the satay?. By the way, we used our best endeavours but unfortunately we can't pay you back those days off. So what we gonna do is give them to you next month. Enjoy! Hey, By the way, how's the missus? Saw her down the pub last few nights - boy did she have a few- giddyup!"
"Hey Bloggsy, got your new roster for next month. Look, we paid those 5 days back to you and as a special treat we even gave you one more (You know you are entitled to 9 days off at home in 6mths don't you) - why don't you take that missus out for a posh chow. Hey wow dood - you got 6 days off this month at home -who do you know - management suck!. Hey, by the way ,we're still busy, so unfortunately we have to give you a few days off in Ho Chi Min again. Don't worry - we'll repay them. By the way way, we found a cheaper dood for the satays - so your allowance is now $4. Have fun. Boy - wish I had your job - NOT!"
"Oh and Bloggs, forgot to tell you. Accor Mecure hotel what's it mob is no longer, yep they went busto. So unfortunately we don't have a hotel standard no more - don't worry, found some space at the Ho Chi Min Shining Palace resort and spa. It was in lonely planet dirt cheap stays - must be good eh! Best not go out after dark it says. But I wouldn't worry too much as I hear there's a great satay stall around the corner and guess what - only $2. Mate, you'll be able to treat the missus big time when you get back."
Yep - All according to the contract!
Chimbu - jot your application in yet?
"Hi bloggs, we're quite busy at the moment so this roster we can only give you 5 days off at home base. You will have a few days off in Ho Chi Min though, and we'll repay them on your return. By the way, our basket of goods allowance system says your meal allowances are $5 for the trip - should buy you a nice satay from the street dood - have fun, lucky sod!".
"Oh your back Bloggs - how was Ho Chi Min? Enjoy the satay?. By the way, we used our best endeavours but unfortunately we can't pay you back those days off. So what we gonna do is give them to you next month. Enjoy! Hey, By the way, how's the missus? Saw her down the pub last few nights - boy did she have a few- giddyup!"
"Hey Bloggsy, got your new roster for next month. Look, we paid those 5 days back to you and as a special treat we even gave you one more (You know you are entitled to 9 days off at home in 6mths don't you) - why don't you take that missus out for a posh chow. Hey wow dood - you got 6 days off this month at home -who do you know - management suck!. Hey, by the way ,we're still busy, so unfortunately we have to give you a few days off in Ho Chi Min again. Don't worry - we'll repay them. By the way way, we found a cheaper dood for the satays - so your allowance is now $4. Have fun. Boy - wish I had your job - NOT!"
"Oh and Bloggs, forgot to tell you. Accor Mecure hotel what's it mob is no longer, yep they went busto. So unfortunately we don't have a hotel standard no more - don't worry, found some space at the Ho Chi Min Shining Palace resort and spa. It was in lonely planet dirt cheap stays - must be good eh! Best not go out after dark it says. But I wouldn't worry too much as I hear there's a great satay stall around the corner and guess what - only $2. Mate, you'll be able to treat the missus big time when you get back."
Yep - All according to the contract!
Chimbu - jot your application in yet?
Grandpa Aerotart
Wow...after 25 yrs in this industry...and having seen things from management that the average QF dude could never dream about in their worst nightmare...even I am not THAT bitter and cynical....or illiterate.
Murgatroid, fail English comprehension at school?
And no not applying...I remain an expat from choice..I like it, despite the ups and downs of expat life and dealing with the odd management fella, over the years, that would end up in jail in Oz if they tried the stuff I have seen there.
But then I can read a contract.
Murgatroid, fail English comprehension at school?
And no not applying...I remain an expat from choice..I like it, despite the ups and downs of expat life and dealing with the odd management fella, over the years, that would end up in jail in Oz if they tried the stuff I have seen there.
But then I can read a contract.
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It seems to me that AIPA made a major tactical blunder a couple ofyears back when they refused membership to the Jet* pilots because "you're not reallly Qantas pilots fellas'.
All the Jet* guys wanted was some representation, but didn't get any support, so now the QF prima donnas are paying the price for their arrogance.
How does that saying go? Be nice to your FO because you never know when he'll be checking you, I think.
Well this representation situation is a variation of that, and QF pilots are now on the end of a 'check'.
Jet* will be flying the bulk of the long haul flying currently done by QF, much of it in A380's, and yes, for a pittance compared with their QF brothers, but you guys made your bed.
All the Jet* guys wanted was some representation, but didn't get any support, so now the QF prima donnas are paying the price for their arrogance.
How does that saying go? Be nice to your FO because you never know when he'll be checking you, I think.
Well this representation situation is a variation of that, and QF pilots are now on the end of a 'check'.
Jet* will be flying the bulk of the long haul flying currently done by QF, much of it in A380's, and yes, for a pittance compared with their QF brothers, but you guys made your bed.
Yep. You are a dead set expert ys120fz.
I am positively shaking in my boots at your claim that Jetstar will be:
......................flying the bulk of the long haul flying currently done by QF, much of it in A380's, and yes, for a pittance compared with their QF brothers, but you guys made your bed.
Jetstar is a small change outfit, and compared to Mainline, will remain so. Their job is to protect the Mainline QANTAS operation and it is a job that, domestically at least, they are doing very well. Despite what you gleefully imagine they are not going to take over the world.
According to the QANTAS Annual Report 2005 Jetstar in the reporting period flew 6 Million ASK's compared with QANTAS Mainline 100 Million ASK's.
If Jetstar ever gets up around 50% of Mainline flying then me give a call. I might give a toss then.
I am positively shaking in my boots at your claim that Jetstar will be:
......................flying the bulk of the long haul flying currently done by QF, much of it in A380's, and yes, for a pittance compared with their QF brothers, but you guys made your bed.
Jetstar is a small change outfit, and compared to Mainline, will remain so. Their job is to protect the Mainline QANTAS operation and it is a job that, domestically at least, they are doing very well. Despite what you gleefully imagine they are not going to take over the world.
According to the QANTAS Annual Report 2005 Jetstar in the reporting period flew 6 Million ASK's compared with QANTAS Mainline 100 Million ASK's.
If Jetstar ever gets up around 50% of Mainline flying then me give a call. I might give a toss then.
Last edited by OhSpareMe; 13th Mar 2006 at 08:00.
Have to agree with OSM
The QF brand is huge. Jet star, I imagine, will grow significantly but its got a long way to go before Mainline is gone. Why would you anyway. Mainline dom was the strongest QF performer last year.
I would love a real reason why this would happen?
It does serve a protection role for mainline and will keep Qantas on routes that don't perform on the Mainline costings. I just wish they paid the pilots more dough.
The QF brand is huge. Jet star, I imagine, will grow significantly but its got a long way to go before Mainline is gone. Why would you anyway. Mainline dom was the strongest QF performer last year.
I would love a real reason why this would happen?
It does serve a protection role for mainline and will keep Qantas on routes that don't perform on the Mainline costings. I just wish they paid the pilots more dough.
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Anyone ever thought about the fact that we are in the middle of a golden economic age at the moment, and that when it inevitably ends or slows and a 'downturn' or whatever you wish to call it occurs, the first people to stop flying will be those who can only just afford it now? And whose customers would they be?
Food for thought, for anyone betting on a Jetstar future.
Food for thought, for anyone betting on a Jetstar future.