480 jobs go in Qantas closure
Join Date: May 2005
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big announcement
well this is a surprise, we all just have to wait till they go through my beloved melbourne heavy maint, same result, i'd say
this is all about getting peoplt to work in greenfield sites, rather than saving money, or being competative, WAT A CROC.
the same rhetoric is always being bandied around, 'fuel costs', 'flexible workforce' blah blah blah blah
i have an idea
1 "lets relocate QCC1 in sydney to india"
pros- cost of living, labour market cheap, Darth Dixons' wage could be slashed in half, just a phone call away, maybe savings of 50 million a year
cons- ????? i dont think there is any
this is all about getting peoplt to work in greenfield sites, rather than saving money, or being competative, WAT A CROC.
the same rhetoric is always being bandied around, 'fuel costs', 'flexible workforce' blah blah blah blah
i have an idea
1 "lets relocate QCC1 in sydney to india"
pros- cost of living, labour market cheap, Darth Dixons' wage could be slashed in half, just a phone call away, maybe savings of 50 million a year
cons- ????? i dont think there is any
Maybe now they should let SQ fly SYD-LAX....
QF (mis)management have certainly shown a lack of enthusiasim for keeping things australian.. but i'm sure the government wont let their airline become affected by competition..
Of course it's gonna cost more in australia. we won't work for a bag of rice every fortnight.
and i know for a fact that AME pay is hardly bank breaking... how the hell can you live in sydney for $45k p.a?
Bad news guys. sorry to hear. but there is life outside of QF. i got out of forstaff after seeing the shenanigans going on at AV, and i haven't looked back.
Geoff's got a lot of explaining to do..
QF (mis)management have certainly shown a lack of enthusiasim for keeping things australian.. but i'm sure the government wont let their airline become affected by competition..
Of course it's gonna cost more in australia. we won't work for a bag of rice every fortnight.
and i know for a fact that AME pay is hardly bank breaking... how the hell can you live in sydney for $45k p.a?
Bad news guys. sorry to hear. but there is life outside of QF. i got out of forstaff after seeing the shenanigans going on at AV, and i haven't looked back.
Geoff's got a lot of explaining to do..
Evertonian
By keeping the maintenance in Oz, albeit under new conditions etc, QF have carefully avoided the "We kept SQ out & you send jobs offshore" argument. I don't think the Govt. have anywhere to go and nor would they, barely a tear was shed when "unionised" Ansett went to the wall....
Bitter sweet news. I'm sorry for the guys that are losing the jobs, but as I've said before, why use the most expensive real estate in the country to maintain aircraft?
I guess its good news for the people of Geelong. The next question is where is A380 maintenance going to go?
I predict that the PM's response will be along the lines of "Qantas is a commercial entity that must make its own commercial decisions.
P.S. From the tone of previous ALEA announcments, you will be told "this is a good outcome, it could have been far worse."
I guess its good news for the people of Geelong. The next question is where is A380 maintenance going to go?
I predict that the PM's response will be along the lines of "Qantas is a commercial entity that must make its own commercial decisions.
P.S. From the tone of previous ALEA announcments, you will be told "this is a good outcome, it could have been far worse."
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480 jobs go in Qantas closure
QANTAS announced today it was cutting up to 480 jobs by closing its heavy maintenance operations in Sydney, raising the prosect of severe disruption to next week's Commonwealth Games if unions follow through with threatened industrial action.
The airline said today the B747 maintenance operations would close in May and the decision follows a review of all its aircraft engineering operations.
Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said the airline planned to achieve savings of about $100 million a year from restructuring all of its engineering operations, principally through consolidation, process improvements and more flexible work rules.
Union reaction has not yet been announced but leaders have threatened potentially crippling industrial action with just days to go before the Commonwealth Games.
Mr Dixon said the review would initially mean Qantas invested in, and retained, its wide-body heavy maintenance facilities in Australia.
"A longer term commitment to retaining the operations in Australia will depend on Qantas achieving competitive benchmarks with the larger global Maintenance Repair and Overhaul providers (MROs) now dominating world aviation.
"Retaining three wide-body maintenance facilities in Australia is no longer viable under this scenario. We have one chance to make this work and we are determined to succeed."
The Federal Government has warned Qantas that it considers it strongly in the national interest for the heavy maintenance operations to remain in Australia.
Mr Dixon said Qantas had to be competitive in every area in which it invested as the company moved towards a cost base that could ensure profitable operations with an oil price above $US60 a barrel.
He said the closure of the Sydney base would result in the loss of about 480 jobs.
"However, through re-deployment the number of people who leave the company as a result of this decision could reduce to around 340."
Mr Dixon said the review at Qantas Engineering would mean:
Heavy maintenance for Qantas' Boeing 747 fleet being transferred from Sydney to the airline's base in Avalon, Victoria, with an increase in employment opportunities at Avalon.
Heavy maintenance for the B767 fleet to continue at the airline's new purpose-built facility in Brisbane, also with increased employment opportunities.
A review in the next six months of the airline's narrow-body aircraft heavy maintenance operations, now out at Tullamarine in Melbourne.
An investment of about $50 million in infrastructure and technology to aid the restructuring.
Qantas Engineering seeking third-party work within the region when the restructuring was complete.
A commitment to retain a comprehensive apprentice program for the training of future aviation engineers in Australia.
Mr Dixon said the decision to close the airline's Sydney heavy maintenance base, after more than 55 years of operation, was regretted, but necessary.
"We have severe space limitations at Sydney and the limitations will increase in future years," he said
"Following this decision, we will still have more than 2900 people employed in engineering in Sydney as well as almost 18,000 Sydney-based staff in other departments.
"We would need to vacate by 2009, or 2010 at the latest, even if the Sydney base had provided the most efficient outcome for Qantas.
The airline said today the B747 maintenance operations would close in May and the decision follows a review of all its aircraft engineering operations.
Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said the airline planned to achieve savings of about $100 million a year from restructuring all of its engineering operations, principally through consolidation, process improvements and more flexible work rules.
Union reaction has not yet been announced but leaders have threatened potentially crippling industrial action with just days to go before the Commonwealth Games.
Mr Dixon said the review would initially mean Qantas invested in, and retained, its wide-body heavy maintenance facilities in Australia.
"A longer term commitment to retaining the operations in Australia will depend on Qantas achieving competitive benchmarks with the larger global Maintenance Repair and Overhaul providers (MROs) now dominating world aviation.
"Retaining three wide-body maintenance facilities in Australia is no longer viable under this scenario. We have one chance to make this work and we are determined to succeed."
The Federal Government has warned Qantas that it considers it strongly in the national interest for the heavy maintenance operations to remain in Australia.
Mr Dixon said Qantas had to be competitive in every area in which it invested as the company moved towards a cost base that could ensure profitable operations with an oil price above $US60 a barrel.
He said the closure of the Sydney base would result in the loss of about 480 jobs.
"However, through re-deployment the number of people who leave the company as a result of this decision could reduce to around 340."
Mr Dixon said the review at Qantas Engineering would mean:
Heavy maintenance for Qantas' Boeing 747 fleet being transferred from Sydney to the airline's base in Avalon, Victoria, with an increase in employment opportunities at Avalon.
Heavy maintenance for the B767 fleet to continue at the airline's new purpose-built facility in Brisbane, also with increased employment opportunities.
A review in the next six months of the airline's narrow-body aircraft heavy maintenance operations, now out at Tullamarine in Melbourne.
An investment of about $50 million in infrastructure and technology to aid the restructuring.
Qantas Engineering seeking third-party work within the region when the restructuring was complete.
A commitment to retain a comprehensive apprentice program for the training of future aviation engineers in Australia.
Mr Dixon said the decision to close the airline's Sydney heavy maintenance base, after more than 55 years of operation, was regretted, but necessary.
"We have severe space limitations at Sydney and the limitations will increase in future years," he said
"Following this decision, we will still have more than 2900 people employed in engineering in Sydney as well as almost 18,000 Sydney-based staff in other departments.
"We would need to vacate by 2009, or 2010 at the latest, even if the Sydney base had provided the most efficient outcome for Qantas.
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According to the Q&A section on the QF intranet site regarding the Heavy Maintenance restructure, A380 heavy maintenance is will be done off-shore due to the low number of aicraft of this type in the fleet.
Nobody asked the question about where 787 heavy maintenance will be carried out. With at least 65 on the way, one could hardly argue that there won't be enough in the fleet to facilitate a heavy maintenance line.
Much sorrow for the guys in Sydney. Although there would be a few (with 30 or more years of service) eagerly awaiting a redundancy package I'd say. Every cloud has a silver lining for some. Interested to see that Brisbane has emerged unscathed. Are we to assume that they are operating at "worlds best practice"? Hasn't been evident in their turn times thus far. A lot of teething problems I guess.
So, now all eyes turn to the guys at Tullamarine. Project 221 has been revealed as outsourcing by stealth, and the 10 hour shift has, for the time being, been knocked on the head. You've got six months to make yourselves irreplaceable guys. Good luck. Just hope the QF management view you in the same light as they have the people at Mascot. Although, at least the management appear to be willing to keep maintenance on shore, for now.
Nobody asked the question about where 787 heavy maintenance will be carried out. With at least 65 on the way, one could hardly argue that there won't be enough in the fleet to facilitate a heavy maintenance line.
Much sorrow for the guys in Sydney. Although there would be a few (with 30 or more years of service) eagerly awaiting a redundancy package I'd say. Every cloud has a silver lining for some. Interested to see that Brisbane has emerged unscathed. Are we to assume that they are operating at "worlds best practice"? Hasn't been evident in their turn times thus far. A lot of teething problems I guess.
So, now all eyes turn to the guys at Tullamarine. Project 221 has been revealed as outsourcing by stealth, and the 10 hour shift has, for the time being, been knocked on the head. You've got six months to make yourselves irreplaceable guys. Good luck. Just hope the QF management view you in the same light as they have the people at Mascot. Although, at least the management appear to be willing to keep maintenance on shore, for now.
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" Just hope the QF management view you in the same light as they have the people at Mascot."
Should read, hope the QF management DON'T view you in the same light as they have the people in Mascot.
Nobody want's to shift to Avalon I know. However, the situation will hopefully not come to that.
Major changes are still to occur though. Where ever the maintenance is performed.
Should read, hope the QF management DON'T view you in the same light as they have the people in Mascot.
Nobody want's to shift to Avalon I know. However, the situation will hopefully not come to that.
Major changes are still to occur though. Where ever the maintenance is performed.
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Well thanks Geoff and Keith for nothing you pack of slack *****.Thanks for not sending our 747 maintenance overseas.
Instead you've sent it to a ******* labour hire firm in victoria set up by the ALAEA.
Redeploy my arse,more like resign and get a job with forstaff.
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Mr Howard mentioned something about QF haveing to seriously think about its Obligations to Australia and its customers and the consequences, if it moves it Maint to China.
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I said this this on another thread and i'll say it on this one...
Thanks Geoff, keith and co for nothing you pack of c(o)unts.
Thanks for giving our work to a labour hire company in victoria set up by the ALAEA.
Thanks Geoff, keith and co for nothing you pack of c(o)unts.
Thanks for giving our work to a labour hire company in victoria set up by the ALAEA.
The Reverend
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Originally Posted by fixa24
Maybe now they should let SQ fly SYD-LAX....
QF (mis)management have certainly shown a lack of enthusiasim for keeping things australian.. but i'm sure the government wont let their airline become affected by competition..
Of course it's gonna cost more in australia. we won't work for a bag of rice every fortnight.
and i know for a fact that AME pay is hardly bank breaking... how the hell can you live in sydney for $45k p.a?
Bad news guys. sorry to hear. but there is life outside of QF. i got out of forstaff after seeing the shenanigans going on at AV, and i haven't looked back.
Geoff's got a lot of explaining to do..
QF (mis)management have certainly shown a lack of enthusiasim for keeping things australian.. but i'm sure the government wont let their airline become affected by competition..
Of course it's gonna cost more in australia. we won't work for a bag of rice every fortnight.
and i know for a fact that AME pay is hardly bank breaking... how the hell can you live in sydney for $45k p.a?
Bad news guys. sorry to hear. but there is life outside of QF. i got out of forstaff after seeing the shenanigans going on at AV, and i haven't looked back.
Geoff's got a lot of explaining to do..
"2004/05 financial year group certificate of $104,284 that's with 12 hr shifts 2 days then 2 nights, 38 hr week.It includes very little overtime.3 group 20/21 eng A/F licences.
I have no great gripe about our pay and conditions as I realise I would struggle to achieve the same unless I went overseas, but that is not the preferred option."
I am confused, who gets paid $45k p.a. only.
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Originally Posted by HotDog
numbskull writes:
"2004/05 financial year group certificate of $104,284 that's with 12 hr shifts 2 days then 2 nights, 38 hr week.It includes very little overtime.3 group 20/21 eng A/F licences.
I have no great gripe about our pay and conditions as I realise I would struggle to achieve the same unless I went overseas, but that is not the preferred option."
I am confused, who gets paid $45k p.a. only.
"2004/05 financial year group certificate of $104,284 that's with 12 hr shifts 2 days then 2 nights, 38 hr week.It includes very little overtime.3 group 20/21 eng A/F licences.
I have no great gripe about our pay and conditions as I realise I would struggle to achieve the same unless I went overseas, but that is not the preferred option."
I am confused, who gets paid $45k p.a. only.
A non licensed person, I think you'll find Numbskull said he was an acting leading hand with all company license types.
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Hotdog, AMEs (non licensed engineers and also includes sheetmetal workers/component guys)
Are on different pay scales (and a different union, AMW from memory)
LAMEs are on a different pay scale and usually on 24 hour shifts etc, with a few license payments for various aircraft etc : LAMEs pay quite often doubles the AME pay.
To make it easier to understand, AMEs are a bit like First Officers and LAMEs are like Captains. We accept the different pay structures for Flight crew, although in the flight crew case the FOs are not necessarily less experienced, they just have a lower bidding number
Point is AMEs laid off in Sydney are unlikely to find a job in GA/Regional as usually LAMEs are sort after. Having to leave your home town after 20 years service is not a happy experience.
I'm curious how much in redundancy/relocation costs Red Rat is to pay for the closure of the Sydney operation ?
I figure for 20 years service we would be looking at 2-3 years pay for the average guy. Somewhere around 120 K or more average, would take the whole debacle to well over 4 million or so.
Still beats GA where when we get laid off we get SFA !!!!!
Are on different pay scales (and a different union, AMW from memory)
LAMEs are on a different pay scale and usually on 24 hour shifts etc, with a few license payments for various aircraft etc : LAMEs pay quite often doubles the AME pay.
To make it easier to understand, AMEs are a bit like First Officers and LAMEs are like Captains. We accept the different pay structures for Flight crew, although in the flight crew case the FOs are not necessarily less experienced, they just have a lower bidding number
Point is AMEs laid off in Sydney are unlikely to find a job in GA/Regional as usually LAMEs are sort after. Having to leave your home town after 20 years service is not a happy experience.
I'm curious how much in redundancy/relocation costs Red Rat is to pay for the closure of the Sydney operation ?
I figure for 20 years service we would be looking at 2-3 years pay for the average guy. Somewhere around 120 K or more average, would take the whole debacle to well over 4 million or so.
Still beats GA where when we get laid off we get SFA !!!!!
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qantas went to uk, china, south africa to employ enginners these people settled in sydney with their familys got morgages qantas no longer needs them sacked at 45 years of age in an industry with no future thanks qantas
qantas employed 550 apprentices where are they going to get jobs
better off being a plummer at least you get job portability
astra went bust qantas saved them via forstaff they now take the jobs off sydney maintenance thanks qantas
and they say enginners bitch all the time,woomera we are driven to dispare I wish emirates would buy the company
qantas employed 550 apprentices where are they going to get jobs
better off being a plummer at least you get job portability
astra went bust qantas saved them via forstaff they now take the jobs off sydney maintenance thanks qantas
and they say enginners bitch all the time,woomera we are driven to dispare I wish emirates would buy the company
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Explain
Originally Posted by fixa24
Maybe now they should let SQ fly SYD-LAX....
QF (mis)management have certainly shown a lack of enthusiasim for keeping things australian.. but i'm sure the government wont let their airline become affected by competition..
Of course it's gonna cost more in australia. we won't work for a bag of rice every fortnight.
and i know for a fact that AME pay is hardly bank breaking... how the hell can you live in sydney for $45k p.a?
Bad news guys. sorry to hear. but there is life outside of QF. i got out of forstaff after seeing the shenanigans going on at AV, and i haven't looked back.
Geoff's got a lot of explaining to do..
QF (mis)management have certainly shown a lack of enthusiasim for keeping things australian.. but i'm sure the government wont let their airline become affected by competition..
Of course it's gonna cost more in australia. we won't work for a bag of rice every fortnight.
and i know for a fact that AME pay is hardly bank breaking... how the hell can you live in sydney for $45k p.a?
Bad news guys. sorry to hear. but there is life outside of QF. i got out of forstaff after seeing the shenanigans going on at AV, and i haven't looked back.
Geoff's got a lot of explaining to do..
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Originally Posted by Ultralights
dont worry, just watched Dixonn on Channel 10 news say, that if the move to Avalon doesnt save money BY JULY 07!!!! then its off to china! for the Spirit of Asia!
July '07, that wouldn't happen to be when the government said it was going to revisit the Sing air syd lax thing is it?