QF B767 and United B747 Taxi Collision at Melbourne
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those "J" lines are there for a reason,but as usual, yonited ,even as a visiting airline,still cant follow the rules......this has nothing to do with the fact they never hired me,.....no ...never entered my mind...
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With regards to time to repair the QF 767: the direct damage looks reasonably superficial so I guess it's a parts issue - being composite, from Boeing directly? Thankfully the elevator and associated linkages appear to have excaped impact. But more seriously, I expect they will have to check if there's been any damage at the root of the spar - they aren't exactly designed to take bending moments in the direction that the impact would have caused. Which means removal of the horizontal stab. And I'm suspecting that may mean removal of the vertical stab also? Can any LAMEs comment?
So it may be a few weeks before she's back online...
So it may be a few weeks before she's back online...
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You're right Ron, it will be a few weeks at best.
It is anything but superficial and tech services will obviously be involved directing proceedings. There will have to be a detailed inspection of the whole horizontal stab to check for any other associated damage.
The biggest problem will be manpower, parts and tooling. 767 Heavy maint is in BNE and SYD(experience anyway). I doubt that they will take the horizontal stab off (or the vertical stab)as I have never seen this done.
Manpower- probably send a team of heavy maint LAMES from Syd or BNE(that's if they can find anyone that isn't totally demoralised about their eminent demise)
Parts- hope that Boeing have them available and can send them ASAP.There's no way that QF will have the required panels/structure on hand.
Tooling- There may be tooling required that QF doesn't have. This sort of thing is never done, even in heavy maint. It will be a problem if they are required. Nothing can be done without the right tooling and the correct procedures.
It will be a ****fight for a few weeks at best.
It is anything but superficial and tech services will obviously be involved directing proceedings. There will have to be a detailed inspection of the whole horizontal stab to check for any other associated damage.
The biggest problem will be manpower, parts and tooling. 767 Heavy maint is in BNE and SYD(experience anyway). I doubt that they will take the horizontal stab off (or the vertical stab)as I have never seen this done.
Manpower- probably send a team of heavy maint LAMES from Syd or BNE(that's if they can find anyone that isn't totally demoralised about their eminent demise)
Parts- hope that Boeing have them available and can send them ASAP.There's no way that QF will have the required panels/structure on hand.
Tooling- There may be tooling required that QF doesn't have. This sort of thing is never done, even in heavy maint. It will be a problem if they are required. Nothing can be done without the right tooling and the correct procedures.
It will be a ****fight for a few weeks at best.
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I love reading these forums to see what misinformation gets out there.
QAN 767 is being repaired by QANTAS at this stage. There's some chord and spar damage but nothing that the QANTAS guys can't cope with. One thing is the expertise that's built up within QANTAS is a godsend when things like this happen. Impact is relatively minor so rest of stab should come out okay after inspections. Wait and see. Tooling etc is really only a Jets truck away.....
UAL 744 status is unconfirmed but it looks worse than it is. Primary wing structure is relatively okay. Believe it or not the winglet itself is pretty much unmarked and most damage is to fairing type structure or panels outside of the primary wing structure (i.e. outside of the spar enclosures).
Amazingly there was three of these type collisions involving Boeing planes worldwide on the one day. Now that's not a good record!
QAN 767 is being repaired by QANTAS at this stage. There's some chord and spar damage but nothing that the QANTAS guys can't cope with. One thing is the expertise that's built up within QANTAS is a godsend when things like this happen. Impact is relatively minor so rest of stab should come out okay after inspections. Wait and see. Tooling etc is really only a Jets truck away.....
UAL 744 status is unconfirmed but it looks worse than it is. Primary wing structure is relatively okay. Believe it or not the winglet itself is pretty much unmarked and most damage is to fairing type structure or panels outside of the primary wing structure (i.e. outside of the spar enclosures).
Amazingly there was three of these type collisions involving Boeing planes worldwide on the one day. Now that's not a good record!
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Originally Posted by Aussie Pete
Amazingly there was three of these type collisions involving Boeing planes worldwide on the one day. Now that's not a good record!
Dave
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I bet she never flies straight again!!
the expertise that's built up within QANTAS is a godsend when things like this happen
You owe for the flesh, Qwantas.
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
If those silly Boeingites had put the tail light on the back of the aeroplane instead of the end of the wings, it wouldn't have happened...
As for the "QANTAS Bangkok Golf Open" that wasn't QANTAS doing the panel beating - rather the panel work was confined to the two boxing champs in the cockpit - heard the fight was a diversion from landing the plane. Umm, work prioritisation....
Anyhow, we all speculate on why something happened but the thing is the maintenance guys always pull the situation out of the swamp. Sometimes it just takes time and a lot of effort to make things happen. After planes are fixed I've never once heard of a pilot coming down and saying to the guys 'Sorry I stuffed up but I owe you guys a big thankyou for putting things right.' Wouldn't that be a great thing! Actually acknowledging everyone is on the same team. Instead what we see is them spending their whole time finding reasons why others were at fault (and again we go back to the Bangkok one - thrust reverser landing procedure my fundamental orifice).
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Reading my previous post I acknowledge it sounds like I'm anti-pilot which is not the case. My apologies. What I'm anti is anyone who tries to blame someone else or shift the blame.
Thought I'd clarify that one!
Thought I'd clarify that one!
Nunc est bibendum
Originally Posted by Aussie Pete
Instead what we see is them spending their whole time finding reasons why others were at fault (and again we go back to the Bangkok one - thrust reverser landing procedure my fundamental orifice).
I hope you enjoy your CRM for engineers Aussie Pete, it's a good course and controlled by a good bloke. Make sure you listen to some of the lessons.
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Got my vote too Pete.
Be careful of the delicate pilot egos as for OJH I agree with you there too.
Some of the best ass covering umbrella opening ever seen to blame procedures.
Lucky Q is an Old pilot matey club or blame may have been attributed somewhere else
Be careful of the delicate pilot egos as for OJH I agree with you there too.
Some of the best ass covering umbrella opening ever seen to blame procedures.
Lucky Q is an Old pilot matey club or blame may have been attributed somewhere else
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Originally Posted by Keg
The principles of a error investigation and a 'just' policy are obviously lost on some! I hope you enjoy your CRM for engineers Aussie Pete, it's a good course and controlled by a good bloke. Make sure you listen to some of the lessons.
I hope you enjoy your CRM for engineers Aussie Pete, it's a good course and controlled by a good bloke. Make sure you listen to some of the lessons.
- but I won't.As for 'just' policy I'll go on and use a perfect example of the 'just' way one particular airline works.
BKK Golf day:
primary CAUSE was undoubtedly pilot error. I haven't found anyone directly involved in this event who believes this wasn't the case. Pilot, despite his behaviour, is still running around with a QF staff number.
Ramp Event:
take a 737 and run a baggage belt loader into the side. Get the new name 'Roger Ramjet' from the press. despite other transgressions gues what - fired.
Who did the greater damage? Who lost their job?
I'm not saying Pilot should have lost their job. Quite the opoosite because I'd hazard to guess that with the training and learnings they'd be a great flyer now. But think about what 'just' actually means. Fact is in the aviation game you have three main protections: union, mates club, and union.
Finally, to move away from comments that led us here have a look at my postings. They're about how teamwork SHOULD be. Then have a look at reality and ask yourself whether what happens everyday is an airline that works together. Not many do.
Nunc est bibendum
I'm not going to bother discussing accident and incident investigation with people who have no idea as to how it operates- especially when you use a schoolyard definition of 'just' rather than the industry norm definition as it applies to accident and incident investigation.
I'm no expert but I know that the 'cause' of an accident is normally found in more than one area- and that most of those areas are outside of the flight deck environmnet. I also know that 'blaming' the last person prior to damage being caused is an extremally short sighted and dangerous game to play because it ignores the 101 other things that contributed to the damage in the first place. It also ensures that those things are still around to catch the unwary when the holes line up again.
For the record, there are mistakes made by a lot of people outside of the flight deck crew in the QF1 prang in BKK- a lot of them are pilots too. I'm not naieve enough to believe that pilots don't make mistakes or will always comply with policy but I'm also not stupid enough to believe that the person left sitting in the wreckage is necessarily the person to blame. Additionally, if your baggage handler was dealt with in a manner other than the 'just' policy then that is also deploreable.
So whether you're an engineer, a F/A, a pilot, an interested observer or none of the above doesn't matter. You're still wrong.
I'm no expert but I know that the 'cause' of an accident is normally found in more than one area- and that most of those areas are outside of the flight deck environmnet. I also know that 'blaming' the last person prior to damage being caused is an extremally short sighted and dangerous game to play because it ignores the 101 other things that contributed to the damage in the first place. It also ensures that those things are still around to catch the unwary when the holes line up again.
For the record, there are mistakes made by a lot of people outside of the flight deck crew in the QF1 prang in BKK- a lot of them are pilots too. I'm not naieve enough to believe that pilots don't make mistakes or will always comply with policy but I'm also not stupid enough to believe that the person left sitting in the wreckage is necessarily the person to blame. Additionally, if your baggage handler was dealt with in a manner other than the 'just' policy then that is also deploreable.
So whether you're an engineer, a F/A, a pilot, an interested observer or none of the above doesn't matter. You're still wrong.