FNC group format
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Whatever the truth might be, what the ATC'ers were told way back when we moved to FNC for DOMOPS, was that QF despatch wanted to be able to submit their plans and easily substitute an aircraft with a different rego - this meant the FPL for up to six legs did not need to be changed - only a change of the rego.
At the time, the ATC'ers (the real ones working the consoles) were not in favour of it - we all knew the aircraft types by rego. We have all since been caught out when QF958 or whatever turns out to be an A330 or B767 rather than the 737 we thought - oops!
Anyway - not disputing what you are saying Keg, just what we got sold!
At the time, the ATC'ers (the real ones working the consoles) were not in favour of it - we all knew the aircraft types by rego. We have all since been caught out when QF958 or whatever turns out to be an A330 or B767 rather than the 737 we thought - oops!
Anyway - not disputing what you are saying Keg, just what we got sold!
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Personally, I find Grouped number callsigns to be easier than spelling each digit out. In fact, if Squawk codes were grouped as well I think they would be easier to understand. Something like "thirteen foutry two" is easier to remember than "one three four two".
And whilst I never use the Group format for assigning codes, as we are not supposed to, to me it sounds easier to read, readback and check.
As for Rego vs callsigns, that is before my time...
And whilst I never use the Group format for assigning codes, as we are not supposed to, to me it sounds easier to read, readback and check.
As for Rego vs callsigns, that is before my time...
Nunc est bibendum
Originally Posted by Duff Man
Keg - crossed wires, I was referring to the request to change from grouped FNCs to ungrouped FNCs, which I'd heard had come from QF. Still heresay anyway.
Personally, I didn't like the change to FNCs but now that I'm used to it, I could care less either way. I acknowledge the efficiency it may create in being able to substitute airframes easily but I would have thought that would still require a new flight plan noting the change of aircraft type and/or rego anyway?!?!?
Still, I'm just a humble line driver and so don't get input on important issues like this!
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This could be a classic 'cane toad' solution... What is it fixing?
[RANTMODE] Twenty two forteen is causing confusion compared to what? two two one four, nope.
twenty two twenty four, yes; solution... two two one four or two two two four... Is it just me or do you make 2-3 calls extra to DSH-8s; noisy in there?
The issues of course are two fold, numbers all the same (clever grouping by schedulers), well very similar and too many companies with 'air' in 'handle'... Imagine that air in airliners... Although this isn't such a problem in Aus. Except all the international carriers that often have english as second or third language.
The second is JST14, OZJ4, REX414 and QFA414 and VOZ814 all on frequency all together and everyone taking shortcuts on callsigns and clipping the RT. Very important to state all your callsign and the 'keywords' too.
Knots, Flight Level, Runway, Turn left heading, Turn right heading etc. So many times I have seen (often post event) 250K getting mixed up with a descent instruction.[/RANTMODE]
Have a nice day...
La gente loca está funcionando la casa de la tuerca
[RANTMODE] Twenty two forteen is causing confusion compared to what? two two one four, nope.
twenty two twenty four, yes; solution... two two one four or two two two four... Is it just me or do you make 2-3 calls extra to DSH-8s; noisy in there?
The issues of course are two fold, numbers all the same (clever grouping by schedulers), well very similar and too many companies with 'air' in 'handle'... Imagine that air in airliners... Although this isn't such a problem in Aus. Except all the international carriers that often have english as second or third language.
The second is JST14, OZJ4, REX414 and QFA414 and VOZ814 all on frequency all together and everyone taking shortcuts on callsigns and clipping the RT. Very important to state all your callsign and the 'keywords' too.
Knots, Flight Level, Runway, Turn left heading, Turn right heading etc. So many times I have seen (often post event) 250K getting mixed up with a descent instruction.[/RANTMODE]
Have a nice day...
La gente loca está funcionando la casa de la tuerca
Originally Posted by Keg
I acknowledge the efficiency it may create in being able to substitute airframes easily
My understanding is QF wanted FNC (something about crews having to do different things in different airspaces) and that an ASA staff member promoted it as "best and indeed ICAO practice" when clearly it isn't.
Time for a AIP SUPP to return ICAO. Education process so that is it clear what elements are grouped and which aren't (lots of correct examples. Too many changes over so many years that some people get confused (e.g. headings).
CASA to monitor and advise AOC holders of any transgressions so that there is full compliance.
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I thought all that would be required if subsituting an airframe would be a CHG/ message. Anyway, like Missy, said, I think we were sold a pup to placate us - on false pretences.
Personally, I would just like things left alone for 5 minutes - we are all getting used to it now anyhow.
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While a little off topic, try listening to all of the following all on approach at the same time:
JETEX, JETSTAR, JET-CRAFT,
It happens every morning and night up and down the East Coast.
Personally, I would just like things left alone for 5 minutes - we are all getting used to it now anyhow.
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While a little off topic, try listening to all of the following all on approach at the same time:
JETEX, JETSTAR, JET-CRAFT,
It happens every morning and night up and down the East Coast.
Last edited by Shitsu_Tonka; 28th Jan 2006 at 10:04.
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I have no hate of him.. I was referring to your posts under ****su-Tonka as opposed to the new version of your name:
Such as Your attempt to get everyone to vote out Howard before the last Federal election
Along with your little "Not Happy John" picture and statement:
which probably explains:
anyway, I'll leave it at that before I lead things way off the topic
Such as Your attempt to get everyone to vote out Howard before the last Federal election
Along with your little "Not Happy John" picture and statement:
This is a party political broadcast paid for by the ****su-Tonka Party.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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****su-Tonka
Banned... Persona Non Grata
Banned... Persona Non Grata
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Tis true I am one and the same - but you brought up Howard not me. (I thought he was especially good in 'Seachange' as the unscrupulous Real Estate Agent)
Tasty bait as it is - I am not biting.
Tasty bait as it is - I am not biting.
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Woomera, please ban pass-a-frozo, blatant abuse of a fine Australian actor, who once played no less a role than the prime minister in "The Games" is not to be tolerated.
Has he been using a FNC by the way? Was there a point to this fatuous posting or have you been interfering with the functioning of your brain with chemicals? Stop it or you'll go blind.
Has he been using a FNC by the way? Was there a point to this fatuous posting or have you been interfering with the functioning of your brain with chemicals? Stop it or you'll go blind.
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Pass-A-Frozo,
That link back to the election was an interesting read.
What I found most curious was that ****zuTonka was restrained and yet banned - but you got away with the following post:
And now you talk about others being persona non grata?
By that standard you might reconsider your general 'flaming' of others who disagree with you. Your posting history suggests you have considerable form in this regard.
That link back to the election was an interesting read.
What I found most curious was that ****zuTonka was restrained and yet banned - but you got away with the following post:
Comrad ****su,
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
your a raving ******** idiot.
You are seriously trying to say that Labor looks after defence just as well / better than the coalition?
While you're are ripping bits from hansard. Why don't you rip the bits where he can't explain why the alleged phone call was 52 seconds long.. oh that's right, because it doesn't suit your purpose.
It's a shame people as ******* stupid as you associate with the aviation industry.
****wit, haven't you got a small corner that you can off to and die??
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
your a raving ******** idiot.
You are seriously trying to say that Labor looks after defence just as well / better than the coalition?
While you're are ripping bits from hansard. Why don't you rip the bits where he can't explain why the alleged phone call was 52 seconds long.. oh that's right, because it doesn't suit your purpose.
It's a shame people as ******* stupid as you associate with the aviation industry.
****wit, haven't you got a small corner that you can off to and die??
By that standard you might reconsider your general 'flaming' of others who disagree with you. Your posting history suggests you have considerable form in this regard.
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Yes, and the link shows what side you sat on in that debate. As far as I know ****su wasn't banned from that thread, but from a few others. If someone starts a debate non aviation related pushing political propaganda and the thread is allowed to run, you can expect a fiery response back - as was given. Latitude was granted in that thread as Woomera stated. You've fallen for the good old ceteris parabis fallacy.
As for "And now you talk about others being persona non grata? " .. don't look at me, I didn't add that little pearl to his title!
As for
, you are joking right? The ALP propoganda was far from restrained. Especially his comments relating to the Prime Minister and conspiracy theories. Again though, I suppose from the side of the argument you were on, it does look restrained.
anyway, I could explain more but if you want to, lets do it in PM so the rest of the thread isn't highjacked.
As for "And now you talk about others being persona non grata? " .. don't look at me, I didn't add that little pearl to his title!
As for
****zuTonka was restrained
anyway, I could explain more but if you want to, lets do it in PM so the rest of the thread isn't highjacked.
Last edited by Pass-A-Frozo; 29th Jan 2006 at 07:48.
