Singaporean Arrogance
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Singaporean Arrogance
When John Howard raised the idea of a merger between QF and SQ I was appalled. How could our Prime Minister suggest that we and SQ be merged when our national views, identity and culture are so different. We have a robust democracy, freedom of speech and an independent Judiciary. Singapore has none of these. The Singaporean government, whom owns SQ, runs the island state with an iron fist. No free press, speech or judiciary. Expat pilots from SQ talk of a biased rascist bullying management. An airline that on face value gives the appearance of success, but like the nation it represents is imbued with an arrogance which is out of all proportion with its size and international relevance. Why on Earth would or should we give them any more access to our economy belies belief.
I am outraged by the impending hanging of Van Nguyen. If Singapore desires more access to the Australian economy/routes then it needs to be very aware of the ground swell of abhorrence that most Australians including the P.M. fell to this most tragic and totally undeserving sentence. Singapore you are on notice.
I am outraged by the impending hanging of Van Nguyen. If Singapore desires more access to the Australian economy/routes then it needs to be very aware of the ground swell of abhorrence that most Australians including the P.M. fell to this most tragic and totally undeserving sentence. Singapore you are on notice.
Nunc est bibendum
Singapore you are on notice.
Low Life Scum Bags
I am outraged by the impending hanging of Van Nguyen.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PH 298/7.4DME
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Treacherous grounds...
I do believe that if the guy was a "dinkum ozzie" rather than of Asian appearance there would be a MUCH larger outcry over this.
Regardless of race or nationality, it is deserved.
520.
Regardless of race or nationality, it is deserved.
520.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope if you ever seek clemency for yourselves or a family member, the respondents display more humanity than you have just submitted.
Would you have the courage of your convictions to say that directly to the faces of the family involved as this guy is dropped from the gallows?
I thought not.
Would you have the courage of your convictions to say that directly to the faces of the family involved as this guy is dropped from the gallows?
I thought not.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middle East
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
slong hauler,
you live here in Singapore do you? Thought not. I'm an Aussie and I do. You've got no idea.
As for the latest drug smuggler - he knew the laws, he knows the penalties and must be subject to the law of the country, excessive as we think it is.
It won't be too long when "Australian" will be synomous with "Druggie" with the likes of Van N, Corby, Bali 9, Leslie. We will be laughing stock if this keeps up. (Well more than we are with the likes of "Crikey Irwin".
you live here in Singapore do you? Thought not. I'm an Aussie and I do. You've got no idea.
As for the latest drug smuggler - he knew the laws, he knows the penalties and must be subject to the law of the country, excessive as we think it is.
It won't be too long when "Australian" will be synomous with "Druggie" with the likes of Van N, Corby, Bali 9, Leslie. We will be laughing stock if this keeps up. (Well more than we are with the likes of "Crikey Irwin".
Registered User **
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
" but like the nation it represents is imbued with an arrogance which is out of all proportion with its size and international relevance."
which nation are you talking about ? Singers or Oz ?
seems to fit both from where I sit. I can't imagine you are privy to the hilarity that Australian foreign policy (pronounced US foreign Policy) is viewed with in the EU ? and perhaps if I were to be brutal, in indo, timor, malay and surrounds ?
Our government is **obviously** building bridges there.....?
dunno, glass houses stones, throw , rearrange....at your will.
Whilst I do not agree with the death penalty as a matter of principle, the fact that he is an Australian citizen does not matter a damn to the Singaporese, why should it ? We have hardly shown it to be an unassailable right, lets face it, the Aus government abandoned Hicks in Gtmo like the pathethic mminion she is, why on earth should the Singaporians listen to us when this Van N probably killed more indirectly than Hicks ?
" but like the nation it represents is imbued with an arrogance which is out of all proportion with its size and international relevance."
which nation are you talking about ? Singers or Oz ?
seems to fit both from where I sit. I can't imagine you are privy to the hilarity that Australian foreign policy (pronounced US foreign Policy) is viewed with in the EU ? and perhaps if I were to be brutal, in indo, timor, malay and surrounds ?
Our government is **obviously** building bridges there.....?
dunno, glass houses stones, throw , rearrange....at your will.
Whilst I do not agree with the death penalty as a matter of principle, the fact that he is an Australian citizen does not matter a damn to the Singaporese, why should it ? We have hardly shown it to be an unassailable right, lets face it, the Aus government abandoned Hicks in Gtmo like the pathethic mminion she is, why on earth should the Singaporians listen to us when this Van N probably killed more indirectly than Hicks ?
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Darraweit Guim, Victoria
Age: 64
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our brain-dead Foreign Minister gave the green light to hang/shoot/strangle/poison Aussies abroad with his response to the sentencing of the Bali bombers. He said something like, "We don't agree with the death penalty, but will be making no objection in this case."
I believe this meant that either it was OK to off people if they had done something naughty enough (leaving everybody free to decide who had been really naughty) or it was OK to off people who look like Asians.
Either way its neck-stretching time for Van.
Now back to the topic. As SQA & QFA (who would together be known as SFA) fly all over the place wingtip to wingtip like an international two-airline policy wouldn't their merger be deemed anti-competitive?
I believe this meant that either it was OK to off people if they had done something naughty enough (leaving everybody free to decide who had been really naughty) or it was OK to off people who look like Asians.
Either way its neck-stretching time for Van.
Now back to the topic. As SQA & QFA (who would together be known as SFA) fly all over the place wingtip to wingtip like an international two-airline policy wouldn't their merger be deemed anti-competitive?
Capitol punishment belongs in the Dark Ages!!
I challenge any of you to visit the hanging rooms in any of our old jails, view the trap door, hanging noose and yell; “Van Nguyen should hang!” Then remember the last guy we hanged in the 50’s turned out to be innocent.
Its time that countries like Singapore, Indonesian, Malaysia, goddam America and others joined the civilised world and outlawed capitol punishment!!
If rattling the trade sanction sword is needed, and then do it. I am sick and tired of countries, like Singapore, running and crying with their “loss of face” when another country criticizes them. If you want to be part of the big world, learn to accept it.
Back to the topic – no to any SQ/GF merger, and no SQ, you cannot ply the pacific route until your country grows up!!
I challenge any of you to visit the hanging rooms in any of our old jails, view the trap door, hanging noose and yell; “Van Nguyen should hang!” Then remember the last guy we hanged in the 50’s turned out to be innocent.
Its time that countries like Singapore, Indonesian, Malaysia, goddam America and others joined the civilised world and outlawed capitol punishment!!
If rattling the trade sanction sword is needed, and then do it. I am sick and tired of countries, like Singapore, running and crying with their “loss of face” when another country criticizes them. If you want to be part of the big world, learn to accept it.
Back to the topic – no to any SQ/GF merger, and no SQ, you cannot ply the pacific route until your country grows up!!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: shivering in the cold dark shadow of my own magnificence.
Posts: 522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Then remember the last guy we hanged in the 50’s turned out to be innocent.
The problem is that our legal system today is far too lenient.
where were you bleeding hearts that plee for clemency when the likes of Amrosi was sentenced to death. You might well say that his crime is not the same, but these drug mules are aiding in murder no differently to someone with a gun or car/backpack full of explosives.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Van N caught red handed and didn't he also confess saying something about doing it for his family?
Like the Bali 9, If you are stupid enough, pressured enough or greedy enough to try and traffic drugs in a country with death sentences as a penalty written in their law. Well.....accept the penalty. (If one of my sons were to do this I would grieve and be there for him but if he was caught red handed I would also steel myself to say goodbye)
On topic...Unfortunately having never been to Singas or on their motaplanes I cannot answer but let those closer to the coal face answer.
Like the Bali 9, If you are stupid enough, pressured enough or greedy enough to try and traffic drugs in a country with death sentences as a penalty written in their law. Well.....accept the penalty. (If one of my sons were to do this I would grieve and be there for him but if he was caught red handed I would also steel myself to say goodbye)
On topic...Unfortunately having never been to Singas or on their motaplanes I cannot answer but let those closer to the coal face answer.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Where I'm not alarmed
Posts: 454
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BARBARIANS
Only when SIA operate without the unfair benefits bestowed upon them by Singapore Inc. that are not available to Qantas should SIA be allowed to play in Qantas's sandpit.
As for capital punishment, the fate of Van Nguyen highlights the concerns of most humane people. Despite appearances to the contrary, Singapore is a very undemocratic country where, for example, freedom of speech is discouraged – often by threat of defamation suits brought by those at the top of the ruling PAP. It also rules by fear, and seeks compliance with its laws by maintaining archaic and cruel policies of capital punishment and physical torture that we in the west find difficult to imagine and accept.
Nguyen Tuong Van did commit a serious crime for which he must be punished. This is not at issue. What is at issue here is that capital punishment is
1. contrary to the position of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights,
2. not a deterrent to the commission of crime,
3. a violation of the most basic of all human rights - the right to life.
I know that the do-gooders and the red-necks in our midst will imply that one bad act begets another but is that how we as a civilised and humane society should react? Lawful homicide, such as that proposed to be committed by the Singaporeans on 2nd December, is abhorrent, inhumane and downright senseless. It should not, under any circumstance, be tolerated or accepted by any civilised human being.
As for capital punishment, the fate of Van Nguyen highlights the concerns of most humane people. Despite appearances to the contrary, Singapore is a very undemocratic country where, for example, freedom of speech is discouraged – often by threat of defamation suits brought by those at the top of the ruling PAP. It also rules by fear, and seeks compliance with its laws by maintaining archaic and cruel policies of capital punishment and physical torture that we in the west find difficult to imagine and accept.
Nguyen Tuong Van did commit a serious crime for which he must be punished. This is not at issue. What is at issue here is that capital punishment is
1. contrary to the position of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights,
2. not a deterrent to the commission of crime,
3. a violation of the most basic of all human rights - the right to life.
I know that the do-gooders and the red-necks in our midst will imply that one bad act begets another but is that how we as a civilised and humane society should react? Lawful homicide, such as that proposed to be committed by the Singaporeans on 2nd December, is abhorrent, inhumane and downright senseless. It should not, under any circumstance, be tolerated or accepted by any civilised human being.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: HEAVEN
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which is more tragic to let 1000's of children become addicted to drugs and ultimately some die a slow and agonising death, or let one greedy SOB die a death ( much quicker) knowing full well what he was doing was illegal and had the penalty of death.
I don't run red lights because I know the penalty is a fine, how smart do you have to be.
I don't run red lights because I know the penalty is a fine, how smart do you have to be.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: honkers
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
........i think a couple of people round here need a reality check. check out some of the halfway houses that look after kids whose lives have been ruined by drug adict parents, go visit the salvation army shelters that try and help the poor unfortunate kids that are hooked on heroin.....look at the number of youth suicides that have been attributed to drugs........walk around the streets of any major city in oz after 1am in the morning and see the youths banged out of their heads on drugs.....
uncommon sense
..............not only that mate, i would walk onto the gallows deck and pull the trap lever !
uncommon sense
Would you have the courage of your convictions to say that directly to the faces of the family involved as this guy is dropped from the gallows?
The amount of drugs in question was enough for 26 000 hits. Had that amount got through how many crimes would have taken place to pay for a fix ? I'm talking about people getting mugged, burglaries, armed robberies, girls turning to prostitution.
Singapore has taken a hard line on crime generally and drugs in particular. Use of a gun during a robbery will also result in the death penalty. Commit three crimes and get locked up in preventative detention so you can't commit any more.
And guess what, it works ! Unlike our soft revolving door court system which only keeps criminals off the streets for a short time in an airconditioned prison with colour tv, good food, excellent medical facilities and job training. Their system ensures very little crime. I would quite happily walk down any street in Singapore at any time of the day or night and feel perfectly safe. How many other cities can you say that about ?
We are in no position to lecture Singapore on how to deal with drug smugglers, as their way works and ours doesn't we should listen to them instead.
Van Nguyen had a wonderful opportunity of a life in Australia and chose to repay it by bringing in death and misery. At the age of twenty five he can't claim to be young and stupid like the Bali nine. He knew what he was doing. His brothers debts were the result of drugs which the Vietnamese community seem to have above average involvement in (ever been to Cabramatta ?)
People die because of drugs, it's just in Singapore it's the traffickers instead of innocent school kids. Singapore executes people yes, but the result is far fewer deaths than if they allowed drugs to run free like we do.
Singapore has taken a hard line on crime generally and drugs in particular. Use of a gun during a robbery will also result in the death penalty. Commit three crimes and get locked up in preventative detention so you can't commit any more.
And guess what, it works ! Unlike our soft revolving door court system which only keeps criminals off the streets for a short time in an airconditioned prison with colour tv, good food, excellent medical facilities and job training. Their system ensures very little crime. I would quite happily walk down any street in Singapore at any time of the day or night and feel perfectly safe. How many other cities can you say that about ?
We are in no position to lecture Singapore on how to deal with drug smugglers, as their way works and ours doesn't we should listen to them instead.
Van Nguyen had a wonderful opportunity of a life in Australia and chose to repay it by bringing in death and misery. At the age of twenty five he can't claim to be young and stupid like the Bali nine. He knew what he was doing. His brothers debts were the result of drugs which the Vietnamese community seem to have above average involvement in (ever been to Cabramatta ?)
People die because of drugs, it's just in Singapore it's the traffickers instead of innocent school kids. Singapore executes people yes, but the result is far fewer deaths than if they allowed drugs to run free like we do.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: some dive
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No free press, speech or judiciary. Expat pilots from SQ talk of a biased rascist bullying management. An airline that on face value gives the appearance of success, but like the nation it represents is imbued with an arrogance which is out of all proportion with its size and international relevance. Why on Earth would or should we give them any more access to our economy belies belief
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PH 298/7.4DME
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a matter of fact,
Would you have the courage of your convictions to say that directly to the faces of the family involved as this guy is dropped from the gallows? I thought not
Just as I would accept that if it happened to a member of my own family. I would have no choice but to do so. I don't wish death on anyone, but there are consequences for certain actions that one has to weigh up sometimes.
What now? You're telling me he didn't know that he could face death if caught?
520.
Join Date: Jan 1998
Location: somewhere in the nth of Oz, where it isn't really cold
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not a fan of capital punishment. I think Australia has it right - not all convicted persons are actually guilty of committing an offence - history has proven that.
Anyone who says that they are not aware of the penalties handed out in other countries for drug related offending are either plain stupid or ignorant.
If that is the penalty in that country, and you commit that type of crime that attracts that penalty, then you must be prepared to face the consequences.
There is a diffrence between being a user and being caught with the gear or being a trafficker and/or dealer and being caught with the gear. Van was caught being the latter.
Personally I think hanging is barbaric. If capital punishment is to carried out, then it should be by another humane method.
Even animals are euthanased with more compassion.
On the other hand, as a white female, I felt absolutely safe walking around the streets of Singapore in the early hours of the morning - there is a similar penalty for any perpetrators of serious assaults against females there.
Pity I can't say the same for my own homeland.
Anyone who says that they are not aware of the penalties handed out in other countries for drug related offending are either plain stupid or ignorant.
If that is the penalty in that country, and you commit that type of crime that attracts that penalty, then you must be prepared to face the consequences.
There is a diffrence between being a user and being caught with the gear or being a trafficker and/or dealer and being caught with the gear. Van was caught being the latter.
Personally I think hanging is barbaric. If capital punishment is to carried out, then it should be by another humane method.
Even animals are euthanased with more compassion.
On the other hand, as a white female, I felt absolutely safe walking around the streets of Singapore in the early hours of the morning - there is a similar penalty for any perpetrators of serious assaults against females there.
Pity I can't say the same for my own homeland.