Airline Management
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Airline Management
Whilst I was a passenger home on a Qantas flight today I took the opportunity to have a browse through their in-flight magazine “The Australian way”. The major feature, and rightly so is the 85 year anniversary of Qantas.
The part that particularly interested me was the profiles of people who made Qantas what it is today.
1 Barry Phair - General Manager Network planning
2 Ion Morrison - General Manager Aviation Health
3 Fiona Balfour - Chief Information Officer
Whilst these individuals may be very qualified and excellent in their particular positions?? they are hardly the types of positions that make interesting reading or what Qantas’s history is all about, regardless of how long they have occupied an office city desk near the likes of Dixon.
How about the engineers, who have built maintained and flown as engineers on the aircraft since day one. Pilots, who flew the early aircraft and are still there today, (there must be pilots who have been with QF for many years with extremely interesting histories, navigators and the early day cabin crew, the romance of early aviation was not created by pencil pushing little dicked bean counters.
Have to wonder if these are the people the general public have an interest in or was it driven by other paper pushing “management” types in an attempt to add credibility to their over paid positions.
A particularly uninteresting article.
The part that particularly interested me was the profiles of people who made Qantas what it is today.
1 Barry Phair - General Manager Network planning
2 Ion Morrison - General Manager Aviation Health
3 Fiona Balfour - Chief Information Officer
Whilst these individuals may be very qualified and excellent in their particular positions?? they are hardly the types of positions that make interesting reading or what Qantas’s history is all about, regardless of how long they have occupied an office city desk near the likes of Dixon.
How about the engineers, who have built maintained and flown as engineers on the aircraft since day one. Pilots, who flew the early aircraft and are still there today, (there must be pilots who have been with QF for many years with extremely interesting histories, navigators and the early day cabin crew, the romance of early aviation was not created by pencil pushing little dicked bean counters.
Have to wonder if these are the people the general public have an interest in or was it driven by other paper pushing “management” types in an attempt to add credibility to their over paid positions.
A particularly uninteresting article.
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This is probably one of THE glaring major differences between true Low Cost carriers and airlines such as QANTAS (aside from the low salaries of the coalface workers) - the legions of office workers sitting around computer terminals, or busily shuffling papers, overseen by grossly overpaid managers (each with their own P.A. - personal assistant) who hold "meetings" multiple times each week, whilst the real airline continues to be run from decisions made at the front lines.
It has been a long time since I have seen figures that give numbers of employees per aircraft, however it would be interesting to see how the numbers of BS Castle inhabitants compare with the number of "front line" workers.
It has been a long time since I have seen figures that give numbers of employees per aircraft, however it would be interesting to see how the numbers of BS Castle inhabitants compare with the number of "front line" workers.
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The Face OF QF
QF is what it is today not because of the visitors who have here about three minutes but because of the legion of ladies and gentlemen who have been here for awhile.
This includes everyone from all areas.
A drover's dog could run this company and still turn a tidy profit.
When I started I earnt a pittance.
I actually needed a second job to make ends meet.
I didnt care, I loved the place and the people.
God, it was so much fun.
The characters who worked here were fantastic.
Whatever management wanted me to do ..I would do it because I knew if I needed a favour to balance up my home life,it would readily forthcoming.
What a bloody change...fear and loathing reign supreme.
I am not vengeful person but,if I heard Dixon had been run over by a truck(and taken a few of the visitors with him)Beers at the Buena in Mosman would be on me.
What a total bunch of dysfunctionals.
This includes everyone from all areas.
A drover's dog could run this company and still turn a tidy profit.
When I started I earnt a pittance.
I actually needed a second job to make ends meet.
I didnt care, I loved the place and the people.
God, it was so much fun.
The characters who worked here were fantastic.
Whatever management wanted me to do ..I would do it because I knew if I needed a favour to balance up my home life,it would readily forthcoming.
What a bloody change...fear and loathing reign supreme.
I am not vengeful person but,if I heard Dixon had been run over by a truck(and taken a few of the visitors with him)Beers at the Buena in Mosman would be on me.
What a total bunch of dysfunctionals.
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Ronnie.
I find myself in agreeance with you.
QF has twice as many staff per aircraft than VB.
Dont know how many JQ employ, but I am betting the ratio would be similar or even better than above.
I find myself in agreeance with you.
QF has twice as many staff per aircraft than VB.
Dont know how many JQ employ, but I am betting the ratio would be similar or even better than above.
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75 th Anniversary
When QF had its 75th Anniversary not one tech or cabin crew was invited to any of the celebrations.
Collectively they represented about 25% of the total workforce.
In LHR a group of crew were told they could attend a function if they wore uniform and handed out Petite fours.
I knew the writing was on the wall from that moment on.
Collectively they represented about 25% of the total workforce.
In LHR a group of crew were told they could attend a function if they wore uniform and handed out Petite fours.
I knew the writing was on the wall from that moment on.
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Yes Simon, I know two of the crew who did that on the night.
Two of the guests were so impressed with the unifrorm and their behaviour that they both got ronnie coots of them later that night.
A practical gift for the airlines birthday at least
Two of the guests were so impressed with the unifrorm and their behaviour that they both got ronnie coots of them later that night.
A practical gift for the airlines birthday at least
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FACTS PLEASE
Calligula,
Check your facts before shooting off. Who said the current General Manager Network Planning had anything to do with the A330-200's? Like many ignorami who know all there is to know about Qantas, you should learn about the Company structure and the decision making process. You might be surprised. Just maybe, but maybe not as you know everything don't you? Why aren't you the CEO or GM Network Planning?
The bloke (BP) in question is one of the most decent and knowledgable person to have frequented Qantas. What he doesn't know about airline economics and planning ain't worth knowing about. That is why he is where he is!
Have a good night
Check your facts before shooting off. Who said the current General Manager Network Planning had anything to do with the A330-200's? Like many ignorami who know all there is to know about Qantas, you should learn about the Company structure and the decision making process. You might be surprised. Just maybe, but maybe not as you know everything don't you? Why aren't you the CEO or GM Network Planning?
The bloke (BP) in question is one of the most decent and knowledgable person to have frequented Qantas. What he doesn't know about airline economics and planning ain't worth knowing about. That is why he is where he is!
Have a good night
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Well Don, you have finally outed yourself as a ground gripping blunt
Regardless this thread is about the fact that many in the company believe that the airline runs because of the non-operational office staff.
I reckon in runs in spite of them.
www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/flying/inTheAir/inflightMagazine/Qantas85years.pdf
Regardless this thread is about the fact that many in the company believe that the airline runs because of the non-operational office staff.
I reckon in runs in spite of them.
www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/flying/inTheAir/inflightMagazine/Qantas85years.pdf
Last edited by Calligula; 10th Nov 2005 at 12:51.
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So many staff but??
Yeah your right there are staff everywhere, manager of this manager of this, I even saw a memo writeen by some guy with the Title of Manager of Economic Effectiveness. His claim to fame was to sack the Librarian of the Ops Library. My Question is this, anything I want to do whether changing details, asking a question about whatever, why does it take ages, many phone calls, much knashing of teeth, and lots of heartache to get anything bloody well done? I wonder if they have ever heard of a Communications manager that works, not some pseudo external outfit that doesnt know their elbow from their ar$e about anything. hmm my $22 fuel surcharge dollars worth , haha!
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Calligula,
Why don't you out yourself and challenge either DO or BP to a debate about Airline Mnagement.I know who I'd be backing. And it ain't you.
No wonder ground staff think very little of many aircrew. If it's all so simple, why don't YOU and some of your mates give it a go? I'm sure that CM would love to have on his team a person with your obvious talent, knowledge, experience, wisdom and drive.
I'm not wasting any more time or bandwidth on your childish and spiteful character assassination.
Why don't you out yourself and challenge either DO or BP to a debate about Airline Mnagement.I know who I'd be backing. And it ain't you.
No wonder ground staff think very little of many aircrew. If it's all so simple, why don't YOU and some of your mates give it a go? I'm sure that CM would love to have on his team a person with your obvious talent, knowledge, experience, wisdom and drive.
I'm not wasting any more time or bandwidth on your childish and spiteful character assassination.
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If he is the clown that decided to spend millions and millions of dollars doing reconfigs and "D" checks on the remaining 747-300.(as well as the A330-200 decision), then I agree Calligula
It's like trying to run a limousine service with a 15 year old Holden Commodore.(we'll just put new seat covers on and the punters will never know!!!!!!!!!!).
The next great management decision is to sack all the heavy maint staff because they cost too much to do "D" Checks on these 15 yr old clunkers.(that's a surprise considering their age!!)
If the CIO is being spouted as some sort of management guru then I'll be @#$#@#. Not a day has gone by for the past 5 years when I haven't had multiple problems with computers at work . If they were mine I'd have thrown them out the window years ago. But what would I know!! I only need these computers to order parts and access maintenance manuals.
Don I think you must be a fair way away from from the coalface and the troops aren't quite getting the message that you are. You probably need to create a new position for "disemination of information to plebs" but I'm sure you can make it sound much more grander than that
Unfortunately THEY ARE the people that have made Qantas what it is today but I don't think too many staff are very appreciative of their efforts.
It's like trying to run a limousine service with a 15 year old Holden Commodore.(we'll just put new seat covers on and the punters will never know!!!!!!!!!!).
The next great management decision is to sack all the heavy maint staff because they cost too much to do "D" Checks on these 15 yr old clunkers.(that's a surprise considering their age!!)
If the CIO is being spouted as some sort of management guru then I'll be @#$#@#. Not a day has gone by for the past 5 years when I haven't had multiple problems with computers at work . If they were mine I'd have thrown them out the window years ago. But what would I know!! I only need these computers to order parts and access maintenance manuals.
Don I think you must be a fair way away from from the coalface and the troops aren't quite getting the message that you are. You probably need to create a new position for "disemination of information to plebs" but I'm sure you can make it sound much more grander than that
Unfortunately THEY ARE the people that have made Qantas what it is today but I don't think too many staff are very appreciative of their efforts.
Last edited by numbskull; 10th Nov 2005 at 10:10.
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Its not about character assasination, its about accountability.
The reality is, the profitability of the airline has masked an unbelievable level of incompetence and lack of foresight.
The A330-200's are one example.
The B747 classic maintenance schedule another.
The failure to expand the business, a preoccupation with the distruction of operational staffs T and C's and the structure of everything around annual bonues has left QF in a precarious position given the imminent massive expansion of EK into the Australian marketplace.
The thing is, whenever anything negative happens GOD and the Dame blame the frontline staff and the unions. We are the ones who are having our livelyhood and futures destroyed - not you
If this guy was not involved in the Airbus - fine.
But some body was at some point though the article gives the impression it would have been him
The reality is, the profitability of the airline has masked an unbelievable level of incompetence and lack of foresight.
The A330-200's are one example.
The B747 classic maintenance schedule another.
The failure to expand the business, a preoccupation with the distruction of operational staffs T and C's and the structure of everything around annual bonues has left QF in a precarious position given the imminent massive expansion of EK into the Australian marketplace.
The thing is, whenever anything negative happens GOD and the Dame blame the frontline staff and the unions. We are the ones who are having our livelyhood and futures destroyed - not you
If this guy was not involved in the Airbus - fine.
But some body was at some point though the article gives the impression it would have been him
Last edited by Calligula; 10th Nov 2005 at 12:34.
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***WARNING***
Just a warning before too many of you lose your posting privileges. I am fed up to the back teeth having to get involved in editing these debates because a minority of you don't have the sense or wit to moderate your language or tone, especially if you don't happen to agree with another poster.
Additionally, if the few who are so thick as to be unable to realise the liabilities that I face just because some of you are, oh so brave, behind your cloak of anonimity and are unable to think of ways to express your anger about someone who may or may not be in the public domain, then you need to be very careful. Go and do a teeny bit of research about defamation before you go shooting your foul mouthed and ignorant rants on here.
You have an opportunity to express your views on here but that doesn't give any of you the right to abuse that priviege by attacking individuals without consideration for what is legal and what isn't. Also, too many of you feel that it is OK to attack another poster just because you disagree with their point of view. Well, if you think that's OK then you are going to get very frustrated when I go in and edit or delete all your rants and venomous posts. You'll just be wasting your time and mine.
Grow up and learn to debate as educated adults rather than a bunch of immature kids in a playground. Play the ball, not the player. If you want to criticise someone such as a manager then do so with wit and reason. If you get personal and descend to gutter level in order to try and get your point across then you don't deserve this platform which is provided for professionals to use, not ignoramuses who don't know how to debate as adults.
I apologise to most kids for the above remark referencing them.
Additionally, if the few who are so thick as to be unable to realise the liabilities that I face just because some of you are, oh so brave, behind your cloak of anonimity and are unable to think of ways to express your anger about someone who may or may not be in the public domain, then you need to be very careful. Go and do a teeny bit of research about defamation before you go shooting your foul mouthed and ignorant rants on here.
You have an opportunity to express your views on here but that doesn't give any of you the right to abuse that priviege by attacking individuals without consideration for what is legal and what isn't. Also, too many of you feel that it is OK to attack another poster just because you disagree with their point of view. Well, if you think that's OK then you are going to get very frustrated when I go in and edit or delete all your rants and venomous posts. You'll just be wasting your time and mine.
Grow up and learn to debate as educated adults rather than a bunch of immature kids in a playground. Play the ball, not the player. If you want to criticise someone such as a manager then do so with wit and reason. If you get personal and descend to gutter level in order to try and get your point across then you don't deserve this platform which is provided for professionals to use, not ignoramuses who don't know how to debate as adults.
I apologise to most kids for the above remark referencing them.
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Hi Danny.
I have edited the post that was personal.
However the two areas of significantly poor decision making I referenced are common knowlege amongst QF crews.
Regardless of who made the decisions, they were still made.
Happy to edit further if I have missed the point
I have edited the post that was personal.
However the two areas of significantly poor decision making I referenced are common knowlege amongst QF crews.
Regardless of who made the decisions, they were still made.
Happy to edit further if I have missed the point
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However the two areas of significantly poor decision making I referenced are common knowlege amongst QF crews.
Ya speak pretty good Strine, Danny. Get yourself a passport, and you might find there's an opening for a young lad of your talent and expertise!
Course first you'll have to jump off the Sydney Harbour Bridge (naked), with a can of Fosters in one hand, and a KB in 'tother, screaming "*&%** you Captain Cook" all the way down.
Grandpa Aerotart
This is an article written by Herb Kelleher...the fella who started Southwest Airlines.
My question is why most modern management are incapable of seeing this success and emulating it...if nothing else out of enlightened self interest? Of course the answer is their personality types...you can't just pretend this stuff from 9-5 you must be it.
Note especially which company personnel, besides aircrew, partcipate in the CRM courses...this is a telling point.
This company has about 20000 staff/ 4000 pilots/ 429 aircraft...Qf has 36000 odd staff, how many pilots/aircraft?
I don't think GoD is a Herb Kelleher type personality.
Herb Kelleher article
My question is why most modern management are incapable of seeing this success and emulating it...if nothing else out of enlightened self interest? Of course the answer is their personality types...you can't just pretend this stuff from 9-5 you must be it.
Note especially which company personnel, besides aircrew, partcipate in the CRM courses...this is a telling point.
This company has about 20000 staff/ 4000 pilots/ 429 aircraft...Qf has 36000 odd staff, how many pilots/aircraft?
I don't think GoD is a Herb Kelleher type personality.
Herb Kelleher article
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 11th Nov 2005 at 01:34.
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The types like Herb Kelleher and there have been others, are builders, creators, they are visionaries....like Reg Ansett, who had a go and created something...unlike the Dixons of this world who are snake oil salesman and smart allecs who are appointed to the position after the fact...
I put Dixon in the class of Lorenzo who nearly destroyed Continental, but for Gordon Bethune...now there's a book to read "From Worst to First" will tell you something about how a different approach can change a companies direction and fortune...
Dixon is smart arseing because he is a legend in his own mind I suspect... a miracle worker as seen by so many, only because its all done by smoke and mirrors and conjuring to portray this percieved infallability...
Had SIA bought that other half of Ansett as was intended, it would have been a totally different story at QF, and Dixon would have to approach his employees in a diffrent way...
I put Dixon in the class of Lorenzo who nearly destroyed Continental, but for Gordon Bethune...now there's a book to read "From Worst to First" will tell you something about how a different approach can change a companies direction and fortune...
Dixon is smart arseing because he is a legend in his own mind I suspect... a miracle worker as seen by so many, only because its all done by smoke and mirrors and conjuring to portray this percieved infallability...
Had SIA bought that other half of Ansett as was intended, it would have been a totally different story at QF, and Dixon would have to approach his employees in a diffrent way...
Thread Starter
My point in starting this post was to start a discussion on the "interesting" people and history behind Qantas's 85 years. The people mentioned in the article may well be talented, or not, how ever they make very uninteresting reading, at least from my point of view.
I would prefer to hear about engineers, navigators, cabin crew and of course the pilots.
Although management make the final decision, I believe it is the workers that make an airline what it is.
Think about when you hop on board, are you think about GoD or the F/A that greeted you, the checkin staff, the pilot you got a glimpse of through the window the baggage handler with the camel head??
Years past the Captain was to be respected, remember the days he walked through the cabin, spoke to the odd passeneger including kids. Have things changed, certainly from where I sit they have.
I would be interested to hear about some of the early days of QF.
I would imagine the F/A's were a different breed to the current day F/A's as the pilots certainly were. Engineers actually got their hands dirty and navigators didn't live in a 6" x 6" box on the panel.
I would prefer to hear about engineers, navigators, cabin crew and of course the pilots.
Although management make the final decision, I believe it is the workers that make an airline what it is.
Think about when you hop on board, are you think about GoD or the F/A that greeted you, the checkin staff, the pilot you got a glimpse of through the window the baggage handler with the camel head??
Years past the Captain was to be respected, remember the days he walked through the cabin, spoke to the odd passeneger including kids. Have things changed, certainly from where I sit they have.
I would be interested to hear about some of the early days of QF.
I would imagine the F/A's were a different breed to the current day F/A's as the pilots certainly were. Engineers actually got their hands dirty and navigators didn't live in a 6" x 6" box on the panel.
