Geoff a happy man....
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The ARG had their chance this time, but they went to water (keeping their powder dry).
I'll start my diet next month!
The results have shown that it's now everyone for himself, because THAT was what the consensus of opinion showed in REALITY!
If Dixon uses the Jet* blokes to cut our throats, it will only be because WE have demonstrated that we're willing to cut our OWN blokes' throats to advance ourself - and for a pittance might I add.
Thank god we weren't involved in 1989 not just for us, but for everyone!
Can you imagine how much further WE would have dragged conditions down, much sooner!
I'll start my diet next month!
The results have shown that it's now everyone for himself, because THAT was what the consensus of opinion showed in REALITY!
If Dixon uses the Jet* blokes to cut our throats, it will only be because WE have demonstrated that we're willing to cut our OWN blokes' throats to advance ourself - and for a pittance might I add.
Thank god we weren't involved in 1989 not just for us, but for everyone!
Can you imagine how much further WE would have dragged conditions down, much sooner!
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To the QF guys who say " don't call me a softcok, I did'nt vote yes ", maybe you could show the same courtesy to those in Jet*, Natjet that did the same ???
You are not the only pilot group in Oz to have a bunch of grass cutting ar5e lickers amongst you
You are not the only pilot group in Oz to have a bunch of grass cutting ar5e lickers amongst you
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Fair point too Cunning,
There is always someone willing to undercut to get ahead. A market like this never really progresses.
It really expands on my point. The company will keep us all at odds with each other-misinformation and mistrust being the key to the divide.
As for you Pole, yes it was a sweet moment, hope you felt the same too wherever you are.
As alluded to by Calligula the desire is to bring everyone up not cut other's down. The 40% who said no, did so for a variety of reasons. For many sending new hires to Singapore turned our stomachs. It is not about money.
For the record for you people not in QF who don't know the union president who told Impulse to get lost.....The Chief Pilot now...
Division is to his benefit-literally
There is always someone willing to undercut to get ahead. A market like this never really progresses.
It really expands on my point. The company will keep us all at odds with each other-misinformation and mistrust being the key to the divide.
As for you Pole, yes it was a sweet moment, hope you felt the same too wherever you are.
As alluded to by Calligula the desire is to bring everyone up not cut other's down. The 40% who said no, did so for a variety of reasons. For many sending new hires to Singapore turned our stomachs. It is not about money.
For the record for you people not in QF who don't know the union president who told Impulse to get lost.....The Chief Pilot now...
Division is to his benefit-literally
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I suggest you actually ask the Jetstar and Eastern pilots who it was that they met with. I think that you will find that the real rub came from a person with initials not dissimilar to the beloved CEO.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story though.
Ask around the JPC and Eastern Pilot's Group if you can, they all tell an interesting and similar story about the events.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story though.
Ask around the JPC and Eastern Pilot's Group if you can, they all tell an interesting and similar story about the events.
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My point exactly Jake, it is the misinformation and fear that produces the crap that management love.
Our CP at mainline is the guy and who generates a big bonus for everything that keeps us divided and drives down the cost base....
It aint rocket science!!
Our CP at mainline is the guy and who generates a big bonus for everything that keeps us divided and drives down the cost base....
It aint rocket science!!
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In this regards, QF pilots are no different to any other group of pilots.
There were other groups who didn't want to rock the boat for their own selfish reasons (and there you have it in a nutshell). but none more strange than the above. I'm left wondering with trepidation what the yes camp's bottom line is, and how they think EBA8 can be negotiated from a stronger position! GD must've really broken out the champers for his negotiating lads the other night.
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one of the most puzzling was the 'I voted yes because it was made clear we wouldn't get anything better'.
I reckon those considerations are fair enough. I would have voted yes if I could and I stand by it.
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Ocker.
A simple question - do you work for QF as a pilot ?.
A very significant number of pilots commute from melbourne - basings there on any fleet would be / are popular and would be easily crewed.
The fact there is not a B767 base there is up to QF - it has nothing to do with AIPA
A simple question - do you work for QF as a pilot ?.
A very significant number of pilots commute from melbourne - basings there on any fleet would be / are popular and would be easily crewed.
The fact there is not a B767 base there is up to QF - it has nothing to do with AIPA
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Calligula & friends,
are you guys not aware of the court case between afap & aipa, at this stage non mainline pilots can't legally join, except for a token donation which means and stands for nothing.
If this is not the case I suggest you get onto aipa to circulate some info to the contary.
else shut up about jetstar pilot choosing not to join, at the moment there is no choice
are you guys not aware of the court case between afap & aipa, at this stage non mainline pilots can't legally join, except for a token donation which means and stands for nothing.
If this is not the case I suggest you get onto aipa to circulate some info to the contary.
else shut up about jetstar pilot choosing not to join, at the moment there is no choice
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Polemic - I was aware of the court case. However there are about 60 members of JQ aust who are AIPA members already.
These guys would enjoy the use of AIPA's legal representation in the event of an accident.
I have a warm spot in my heart for the feds, but industrially they are a spent force.
These guys would enjoy the use of AIPA's legal representation in the event of an accident.
I have a warm spot in my heart for the feds, but industrially they are a spent force.
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I know what you're saying Lurker, but still somewhere there has to be a line below which you would say 'no way, I can't vote for that', irrrespective of whether you think you're not going to get any improvement from the company.
The reason I say this, is because *if* the new IR laws get through in their current form, the company may just about be able to offer you a sh#t sandwich and make it their final offer. Would you still vote to accept it? I just wonder where that line is for mainline pilots, if there indeed is one. There's probably not much point in having a voting process if it's a foregone conclusion that you'll accept their bottom line.
I voted no because I saw it as winding back conditions in a time of record profitability while most mainline pilots have made a concerted effort to 'do the right thing' in terms of operating as efficiently as they can for the company. If the company profit had been marginal or reduced from last time, I may have voted yes.
The reason I say this, is because *if* the new IR laws get through in their current form, the company may just about be able to offer you a sh#t sandwich and make it their final offer. Would you still vote to accept it? I just wonder where that line is for mainline pilots, if there indeed is one. There's probably not much point in having a voting process if it's a foregone conclusion that you'll accept their bottom line.
I voted no because I saw it as winding back conditions in a time of record profitability while most mainline pilots have made a concerted effort to 'do the right thing' in terms of operating as efficiently as they can for the company. If the company profit had been marginal or reduced from last time, I may have voted yes.
Last edited by DutchRoll; 5th Nov 2005 at 22:12.
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$45,000 p.a to Fly 747 - No Joke
The current CEO would be happy to pay 747 pilots $45,000 to fly 400+ people around the globe. He has alway said he believes wages are to high for everyone other than him.
If you can get a pilot on a AWA on $45,000 to fly 747, why not. The new I.R laws will allow for this.
The single biggest cost for Qantas is man power. So you watch as all LAME's are fired, flight crews imported from overseas.
Qantas IS NOT an Australian airline, it is a company with a few employees who are going to be forced to eat sh%t and thank the Board of Directors for it, and yes the great man Mr Dixon.
When do issues of safety come into play?? We all remember bangkok and idle reverse on a wet runway, with crosswind.
If you can get a pilot on a AWA on $45,000 to fly 747, why not. The new I.R laws will allow for this.
The single biggest cost for Qantas is man power. So you watch as all LAME's are fired, flight crews imported from overseas.
Qantas IS NOT an Australian airline, it is a company with a few employees who are going to be forced to eat sh%t and thank the Board of Directors for it, and yes the great man Mr Dixon.
When do issues of safety come into play?? We all remember bangkok and idle reverse on a wet runway, with crosswind.
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Great points Dutchy. I don't disagree with anything you say, although I suspect that the new IR laws will not be the end of the world as many are predicting.
The key problem I saw with our situation lies with the underlying position we were in, totally due to the previous administration by the way. A hard line had to be taken from day dot with the negotiations. That would have layed a foundation upon which a firm stand could be taken. We were in quicksand up to our knees. I honestly believe we would have been so soundly defeated in any confrontation with the company that the future of the union as our voice might have been compromised. A good example can be seen by looking at the international branch of the FAAA. They are about as close to irrelevant as any union in Oz. A wise general chooses the place and time of battle to ensure his advantage. This simply wasn't the right time or place.
738- How much was the Captain in BKK being paid? Would he have been safer had he been making more? I fail to see your point.
The key problem I saw with our situation lies with the underlying position we were in, totally due to the previous administration by the way. A hard line had to be taken from day dot with the negotiations. That would have layed a foundation upon which a firm stand could be taken. We were in quicksand up to our knees. I honestly believe we would have been so soundly defeated in any confrontation with the company that the future of the union as our voice might have been compromised. A good example can be seen by looking at the international branch of the FAAA. They are about as close to irrelevant as any union in Oz. A wise general chooses the place and time of battle to ensure his advantage. This simply wasn't the right time or place.
738- How much was the Captain in BKK being paid? Would he have been safer had he been making more? I fail to see your point.
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A good example can be seen by looking at the international branch of the FAAA. They are about as close to irrelevant as any union in Oz.
They are about as close to irrelevant as any union in Oz.
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I dont know which of the two is worse........GOD who continually speaks of doom and gloom or the majority of my collegues (previous posts) whom also speak of doom and gloom (albeit from a different perspective)......i mean we despise it when GOD goes on and on about how hard times are but when you guys also go on about how its the end of the world for mainline pilots (since the yes vote).....now thats hypocrisy to me!
Its not the end of the world guys.....voting the ARG into office means that the majority of us were not happy with the way AIPA was being run,voting yes for the EBA means that the majority of LH pilots are happy(content) with the results....these are 2 distinctively different issues..so I dont know how some of you can claim that the majority of AIPA members have turned their backs on their own elected AIPA reps...
Shoot away boys!!
Its not the end of the world guys.....voting the ARG into office means that the majority of us were not happy with the way AIPA was being run,voting yes for the EBA means that the majority of LH pilots are happy(content) with the results....these are 2 distinctively different issues..so I dont know how some of you can claim that the majority of AIPA members have turned their backs on their own elected AIPA reps...
Shoot away boys!!
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lurker, i think the issue he raised related to safety and cost cutting. Whilst the actions on the day are found in the report, one major aspect which contributed to the BKK was the training, and use of a lower flap setting and idle reverse to save money, via more efficient brake use.
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The title of this thread is "Geoff a happy man....", the interpretation to my mind being "Geoff is happy because AIPA has shown itself to be a toothless tiger".
There was the usual huffing and puffing, and beating of chests - but in the end the members came around to GOD's threats...sorry, point of view....... as being the best that would see AIPA "preserved" - like some sort of monument to bygone times.
It's going to be sad to see "more of the same" dished out to QF staff during the remainder of Mr Dixon's tenure - he obviously has the measure of the strengths (?) of his opponents...sorry, employees....and will, I believe, slash and burn QF mainline until no effective collective employee representation remains - all spurred on by Little Johnny.
IMO, any ideas of a pilot backlash through this ARG, over the next 12 months, are pipe dreams.
It's going to be the same old story, "we would have been so soundly defeated in any confrontation with the company that the future of the union as our voice might have been compromised.".
Keep the dinosaur away from any immediate, potential battles - it's dying a slow, natural death anyway.
There was the usual huffing and puffing, and beating of chests - but in the end the members came around to GOD's threats...sorry, point of view....... as being the best that would see AIPA "preserved" - like some sort of monument to bygone times.
It's going to be sad to see "more of the same" dished out to QF staff during the remainder of Mr Dixon's tenure - he obviously has the measure of the strengths (?) of his opponents...sorry, employees....and will, I believe, slash and burn QF mainline until no effective collective employee representation remains - all spurred on by Little Johnny.
IMO, any ideas of a pilot backlash through this ARG, over the next 12 months, are pipe dreams.
It's going to be the same old story, "we would have been so soundly defeated in any confrontation with the company that the future of the union as our voice might have been compromised.".
Keep the dinosaur away from any immediate, potential battles - it's dying a slow, natural death anyway.
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HI'er
Not much input there. I don't want to argue about the year but- your results speak for themselves. No matter what brought it about, or who did what to whom, the result was that you lost/resigned/had stolen your job, your union was basically destroyed and most of you left the country. Thanks for the comments but please don't be offended if we don't follow your lead.
Not much input there. I don't want to argue about the year but- your results speak for themselves. No matter what brought it about, or who did what to whom, the result was that you lost/resigned/had stolen your job, your union was basically destroyed and most of you left the country. Thanks for the comments but please don't be offended if we don't follow your lead.