Qantas says new pay claim won't fly
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Qantas says new pay claim won't fly
Qantas says new pay claim won't fly
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
October 26, 2005
QANTAS chief executive Geoff Dixon has drawn another of his famous lines in the sand with a sharp warning to his pilots that the carrier will not increase its pay offer or resile from its decision to start a new international carrier.
In a blunt letter to the airline's long-haul pilots, Mr Dixon warned that an active campaign for a "no" vote on a new enterprise bargaining agreement would not influence the group's strategy to take low-cost offshoot Jetstar international.
His comments come as a reform group expected to take control of the Australian and International Pilots Association has warned the airline is in for some hard bargaining if the enterprise agreement is rejected.
Pilots are worried about the establishment of a new international arm of Jetstar and plans to start a second-officers' base in Singapore.
But Mr Dixon said the agreement provided for back pay, a 3per cent annual pay rise and "some sensible efficiencies".
"If the proposed agreement is voted down, the current enterprise agreement, and the current pay rates continue until a new agreement is accepted," he said.
'AIPA may approach Qantas with new claims, but I can assure you that the 3 per cent wages offer will not be increased.
"Nor will the offer for back pay be repeated.
"Anyone suggesting otherwise is misleading you."
Mr Dixon said decisions on establishing new businesses would be made solely on the basis of what was best for the profitability and market share for the whole group.
He said this was how the airline would best secure the future of all employees, including pilots.
"Our international operation is certainly in no position to be isolated from the changes sweeping the entire industry," he said.
"On the contrary, this is where the pressure and need for change is most acute, with returns from the international operation falling well short of its share of our asset base."
The Qantas boss said Jetstar had grown new routes, protected Qantas market share and strengthened the mainline brand and yield. He said the same rationale would underscore its international operations.
However, his claims did not wash well with pilots.
AIPA reform group spokesman Ian Woods questioned why Mr Dixon was so determined to get involved in the pilots' proper democratic process.
Captain Woods said most pilots would interpret Mr Dixon's references to back pay as a threat.
"It's supposed to be a democratic vote, but the pilots probably think it's a plebiscite at gun point," he said.
Source: The Australian Newspaper
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
October 26, 2005
QANTAS chief executive Geoff Dixon has drawn another of his famous lines in the sand with a sharp warning to his pilots that the carrier will not increase its pay offer or resile from its decision to start a new international carrier.
In a blunt letter to the airline's long-haul pilots, Mr Dixon warned that an active campaign for a "no" vote on a new enterprise bargaining agreement would not influence the group's strategy to take low-cost offshoot Jetstar international.
His comments come as a reform group expected to take control of the Australian and International Pilots Association has warned the airline is in for some hard bargaining if the enterprise agreement is rejected.
Pilots are worried about the establishment of a new international arm of Jetstar and plans to start a second-officers' base in Singapore.
But Mr Dixon said the agreement provided for back pay, a 3per cent annual pay rise and "some sensible efficiencies".
"If the proposed agreement is voted down, the current enterprise agreement, and the current pay rates continue until a new agreement is accepted," he said.
'AIPA may approach Qantas with new claims, but I can assure you that the 3 per cent wages offer will not be increased.
"Nor will the offer for back pay be repeated.
"Anyone suggesting otherwise is misleading you."
Mr Dixon said decisions on establishing new businesses would be made solely on the basis of what was best for the profitability and market share for the whole group.
He said this was how the airline would best secure the future of all employees, including pilots.
"Our international operation is certainly in no position to be isolated from the changes sweeping the entire industry," he said.
"On the contrary, this is where the pressure and need for change is most acute, with returns from the international operation falling well short of its share of our asset base."
The Qantas boss said Jetstar had grown new routes, protected Qantas market share and strengthened the mainline brand and yield. He said the same rationale would underscore its international operations.
However, his claims did not wash well with pilots.
AIPA reform group spokesman Ian Woods questioned why Mr Dixon was so determined to get involved in the pilots' proper democratic process.
Captain Woods said most pilots would interpret Mr Dixon's references to back pay as a threat.
"It's supposed to be a democratic vote, but the pilots probably think it's a plebiscite at gun point," he said.
Source: The Australian Newspaper
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sounds like management are going to take it to the media hoping to create another 89 style dispute.....
any one else feeling engaged? its obvious the company is.... with both barrels!!!
any one else feeling engaged? its obvious the company is.... with both barrels!!!
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Management are obviously worried about the changes that have occured in AIPA.
The pilots have had statements from everyone except the janitor on this subject. Now Dixon is trotted out.
Eyeshades on everyone for the big poker game where bluff wins .
The pilots have had statements from everyone except the janitor on this subject. Now Dixon is trotted out.
Eyeshades on everyone for the big poker game where bluff wins .
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Me tthinks they're contracts are about up and an industrial dispute will cut millions of their next employment prospect.
They've been bullying pilots for a long time and not just on the issue of pay etc.
Like most bullies their worst nightmare is someone standing up to them.
Another 2 year EBA was probably all they need to out manouvre us or for the PM to extend his unfair dismissal laws to all employers.
If there is one thing the public hate more than overpaid glorified bus drivers its overpaid CEO's. In the media over the last couple of weeks there have been bits and pieces on how QF pilots make huge amounts of money over J* and VB. One quoted QF LH guys make 440,000 base salary.
Me thinks the ground work is being layed for a very public dispute.
They've been bullying pilots for a long time and not just on the issue of pay etc.
Like most bullies their worst nightmare is someone standing up to them.
Another 2 year EBA was probably all they need to out manouvre us or for the PM to extend his unfair dismissal laws to all employers.
If there is one thing the public hate more than overpaid glorified bus drivers its overpaid CEO's. In the media over the last couple of weeks there have been bits and pieces on how QF pilots make huge amounts of money over J* and VB. One quoted QF LH guys make 440,000 base salary.
Me thinks the ground work is being layed for a very public dispute.
Grandpa Aerotart
I think you should all do EXACTLY what GD says...right after he hands back 63% of that 66% pay rise he got a while back.
But be aware...if he has already, or does soon, start the media up about 'overpayed pilots'...and let's face it you got a Murdoch on your board...you're going to need your own media to combat it.
Is he dumb enough to back all his pilots into a corner?
Are his pilots angry enough to be all standing in the same corner together?
If ever there was a time to re visit the lessons learned in 89 it would be now...I would bet GD's last payrise he knows them cold.
But be aware...if he has already, or does soon, start the media up about 'overpayed pilots'...and let's face it you got a Murdoch on your board...you're going to need your own media to combat it.
Is he dumb enough to back all his pilots into a corner?
Are his pilots angry enough to be all standing in the same corner together?
If ever there was a time to re visit the lessons learned in 89 it would be now...I would bet GD's last payrise he knows them cold.
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Dixon has been foolish enough to have shown a large part of his hand already.
Jet Star.
The Jet* people need to realise that they are underselling themselves by a long way, and THEY need a similar unity and cohesiveness as AIPA provides for the QF pilots.
It is evident that there is enough one for everyone to have a share without one group taking some away from the other, but by paying a greater price (by settling for less).
The average Australian has had enough of the greedy boss who sits in a mahoganey walled, air-conditioned office, furnished with plush carpet and an antique oak desk retrenching thousands of workers - and squeezing the conditions of those left - while he has his hand outstretched asking for another few MILLION dollars just for him!
Dixon portrays that greedy boss perfectly, and needs to be given some "press" to that effect, as a countermeasure.
At the present time, Dixon feels he is allied with the Jet* pilots, against the QF pilots.
Prove him wrong!
Jet Star.
The Jet* people need to realise that they are underselling themselves by a long way, and THEY need a similar unity and cohesiveness as AIPA provides for the QF pilots.
It is evident that there is enough one for everyone to have a share without one group taking some away from the other, but by paying a greater price (by settling for less).
The average Australian has had enough of the greedy boss who sits in a mahoganey walled, air-conditioned office, furnished with plush carpet and an antique oak desk retrenching thousands of workers - and squeezing the conditions of those left - while he has his hand outstretched asking for another few MILLION dollars just for him!
Dixon portrays that greedy boss perfectly, and needs to be given some "press" to that effect, as a countermeasure.
At the present time, Dixon feels he is allied with the Jet* pilots, against the QF pilots.
Prove him wrong!
Bottums Up
I don't work for QF so have no axe to grind. However, foolish and GD don't seem to go together.
As for advice to the Jet* pilot body (and I don't work for them either), I'd think that an inclusive type statement rather than a lecture on what Jet* pilots should do, would be more likely to achieve a consensus.
I have been on the periphery of some conversations between Jet* pilots and my assessment is that to a certain degree, they're sick of the flack and the one sided advice and are looking forward to sticking it to some of the groups who have stuck it to them.
Doesn't achieve much in the way of positive outcomes for the piloting fraternity perhaps, but it's not too hard to see where the sentiments come from. If you look objectively of course.
As for advice to the Jet* pilot body (and I don't work for them either), I'd think that an inclusive type statement rather than a lecture on what Jet* pilots should do, would be more likely to achieve a consensus.
I have been on the periphery of some conversations between Jet* pilots and my assessment is that to a certain degree, they're sick of the flack and the one sided advice and are looking forward to sticking it to some of the groups who have stuck it to them.
Doesn't achieve much in the way of positive outcomes for the piloting fraternity perhaps, but it's not too hard to see where the sentiments come from. If you look objectively of course.
and THEY need a similar unity and cohesiveness as AIPA provides for the QF pilots.
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Having the J Star pilots join AIPA might prove more divisive than unifying, as it would mean AIPA would be seen to be advocating one set of conditions for QF pilots, and another for J Star pilots.
On the other hand, of course, it could work to the benefit of BOTH groups, as EBA's for each group could be staggered, thereby providing a "leap frog" opportunity at each renewal.
From Dixon's statements, it is now apparent that each group needs the other to prevent a savaging of each others' conditions.
Dixon must beside himself with sadistic pleasure, having two packs of dogs and throwing one bone into the centre, and then watching as the fangs are bared and pieces of fur are ripped off each other as the snarling, yelping and blood flys.
Sight of the reward itself (the bone) is lost by all except a couple of antagonists near to it - but the rest of both packs are now in a frenzied dogfight, unsure why, except that everyone else is doing it.
On the other hand, of course, it could work to the benefit of BOTH groups, as EBA's for each group could be staggered, thereby providing a "leap frog" opportunity at each renewal.
From Dixon's statements, it is now apparent that each group needs the other to prevent a savaging of each others' conditions.
Dixon must beside himself with sadistic pleasure, having two packs of dogs and throwing one bone into the centre, and then watching as the fangs are bared and pieces of fur are ripped off each other as the snarling, yelping and blood flys.
Sight of the reward itself (the bone) is lost by all except a couple of antagonists near to it - but the rest of both packs are now in a frenzied dogfight, unsure why, except that everyone else is doing it.
Bottums Up
Ronnie,
When you say,
why couldn't the integration of JetStar pilots be seen along similar lines that AIPA must agree to separate pay for mainline Capt v F/O v S/O and for the different aircraft types.
Accepting, and welcoming JetStar pilots would allow a united tech crew to work towards improving the lot of the whole. Keeping JetStar pilots out, will in my view, only exacerbate the us and them culture, and mainline have more to loose. JetStar can really only go up in terms of pay and conditions.
When you say,
Having the J Star pilots join AIPA might prove more divisive than unifying, as it would mean AIPA would be seen to be advocating one set of conditions for QF pilots, and another for J Star pilots.
Accepting, and welcoming JetStar pilots would allow a united tech crew to work towards improving the lot of the whole. Keeping JetStar pilots out, will in my view, only exacerbate the us and them culture, and mainline have more to loose. JetStar can really only go up in terms of pay and conditions.
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JQ aust pilots have had the capacity to be members of AIPA, at a discount rate, for 18 months now.
The fact that the majority of them chose not to is not the fault of current AIPA members
The fact that the majority of them chose not to is not the fault of current AIPA members
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Caliigula they probably won't join till they need to... ie when their pay and conditions are under fire... i remember people saying QF were one of the lowest paid pilots in the world... and we were safe because of it...
No one is safe... and I wonder how AIPA will react when large chunks of the business go to J*. How can they represent both pilot groups without conflict of interest...
I tell you right now when J* start getting COM positions Im going to be giving myself an instant 0.85 per cent pay rise. Its bad enough at the moment with all the special interest groups.
What J* needs is its own cohesive union which works with AIPA when we have common interests... perhaps with a national union similiar to IFALPA where all unions have reps and co ordinate their activities but still gives each pilot group control over their individual pond. Similiar to ACTU.
Whats been happening over the last few years has been happening in GA since before I was born. Otherwise it can be compared to the oldest profession.
As an aside... keep the blinkers off... Jetstar may be a distraction... we may yet still both get blindsided by something unexpected... eg SQ merger.
No one is safe... and I wonder how AIPA will react when large chunks of the business go to J*. How can they represent both pilot groups without conflict of interest...
I tell you right now when J* start getting COM positions Im going to be giving myself an instant 0.85 per cent pay rise. Its bad enough at the moment with all the special interest groups.
What J* needs is its own cohesive union which works with AIPA when we have common interests... perhaps with a national union similiar to IFALPA where all unions have reps and co ordinate their activities but still gives each pilot group control over their individual pond. Similiar to ACTU.
Whats been happening over the last few years has been happening in GA since before I was born. Otherwise it can be compared to the oldest profession.
As an aside... keep the blinkers off... Jetstar may be a distraction... we may yet still both get blindsided by something unexpected... eg SQ merger.
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Jetstar may be a distraction... we may yet still both get blindsided by something unexpected...
Australia already has an IFALPA affiliated union, the AFAP - of which AIPA was once a part. In its infinte wisdom, however, AIPA decided at the time that the interests of international pilots were better represented alone, rather than acting in unison with the domestics.
That decision has now turned around and bitten them on their behind big time.
The AFAP apparently already represents a not inconsiderable number of J* pilots, I have been told.
Additionally the S-ALPA (Singapore) pilots' union is also affiliated with IFALPA
The most logical "marriage" would be one of AIPA and the AFAP.
For the future of ALL pilot groups, it's time to put aside the petty, divisive bickering and set ourselves up for a strong, united future that will benefit and protect ALL of us.
JQ aust pilots have had the capacity to be members of AIPA, at a discount rate, for 18 months now.
The fact that the majority of them chose not to is not the fault of current AIPA members
The fact that the majority of them chose not to is not the fault of current AIPA members
If thats is the case, what is the benefit of joining APIA ?
Is this what the AFAP and APIA are in court about at the moment ?
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I would be curious- is it right/ lawful that a boss can make threats to influence an EBA? I am not sure where the law stands on this now. Doesn't seem right though. What has happened to the Bargaining part of EBA (or Agreement)? Anyone know??