Qantas says new pay claim won't fly
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Here's an idea.
Remove Geoff from QANTAS for a month, and see what effect this has on the Company.
Now remove the same number of employees - say 20 or so Captains - who would draw the equivalent of Goog's (Good Old Geoff's) income, for the same period, and note the effect.
Goog gave a realistic indication of what HE expected QANTAS should be able to afford to pay, when he took his 60+ percent salary increase.
He led by example.
But it would seem that NOW (that he's got what HE wanted) he's saying that QANTAS can afford only THREE PERCENT.
So were you being greedy (again) Googie, when you made your grab - or just deceitful to the shareholders?
Remove Geoff from QANTAS for a month, and see what effect this has on the Company.
Now remove the same number of employees - say 20 or so Captains - who would draw the equivalent of Goog's (Good Old Geoff's) income, for the same period, and note the effect.
Goog gave a realistic indication of what HE expected QANTAS should be able to afford to pay, when he took his 60+ percent salary increase.
He led by example.
But it would seem that NOW (that he's got what HE wanted) he's saying that QANTAS can afford only THREE PERCENT.
So were you being greedy (again) Googie, when you made your grab - or just deceitful to the shareholders?
Join Date: Jul 2005
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WE are watching....
The L/H pilots are about to have their vote..Ratification or many RATs in this process.
From my experience as a LAME if they vote no and arent willing to take action to back it up.(of the industrial kind)
When you come back to the table to negociate and you havent rattled your sabre loud enough, you will be offered less and the pay rises will start at the day of RATIFICATION..ie NO back pay to the end of the last EBA.
We are all watching
From my experience as a LAME if they vote no and arent willing to take action to back it up.(of the industrial kind)
When you come back to the table to negociate and you havent rattled your sabre loud enough, you will be offered less and the pay rises will start at the day of RATIFICATION..ie NO back pay to the end of the last EBA.
We are all watching
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Agreed Bolty. One of the (several) problems is that our long-haul pilot's sabres are very rusty and have been tucked away for so long that many mainline pilots can't quite remember where they put them. GoD has no such problem, as He keeps His sabre finely honed, being the highly respected leader of men that He is (even more respected now, after his not-so-subtle written threat to mainline pilots recently).
Hopefully the new AIPA leadership will be able to find the right balance between having some industrial fortitude, and carefully playing the inevitable PR war (ie, not doing rash & silly industrial things that screw the ordinary punters). If they don't, we're all buggered. In any case, the old leadership were never going to do anything but blithely follow GoDs commandments until mainline conditions as we know them are wiped out.
Hopefully the new AIPA leadership will be able to find the right balance between having some industrial fortitude, and carefully playing the inevitable PR war (ie, not doing rash & silly industrial things that screw the ordinary punters). If they don't, we're all buggered. In any case, the old leadership were never going to do anything but blithely follow GoDs commandments until mainline conditions as we know them are wiped out.
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The funny thing is there is no need for sabre rattling. This is an industrial process. A NO vote simply allows the bargaining to continue until, consensus is reached.
GD's threats are tantamount to trying to exert pressure on a democratic process. My sources tell me that the matter is looked at with some interest in legal circles.
None of us there will take silly steps, this is a negotiation. It is about mutual respect, something sadly lacking from the management perspective. We afterall are generally proud to be in company colours.
As to the money, back pay doesn't matter, unfortunatley for poor Geoff he doesn't see anything other than $.
Crewing aircraft, singapore basings and prospects for employment beyond the next year are the issues. It shows how out of touch they are. By the way what happened to the engagement planning teams? And when do we get another go at the survey(it has to be repeated) I hear the cabin crews' was worse
GD's threats are tantamount to trying to exert pressure on a democratic process. My sources tell me that the matter is looked at with some interest in legal circles.
None of us there will take silly steps, this is a negotiation. It is about mutual respect, something sadly lacking from the management perspective. We afterall are generally proud to be in company colours.
As to the money, back pay doesn't matter, unfortunatley for poor Geoff he doesn't see anything other than $.
Crewing aircraft, singapore basings and prospects for employment beyond the next year are the issues. It shows how out of touch they are. By the way what happened to the engagement planning teams? And when do we get another go at the survey(it has to be repeated) I hear the cabin crews' was worse
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Bent Over
Everyone else,particularly engineering and Cabin Crew has been done over by this swine.
Personally I look to you guys to take the fight to them and not cave in.
At the very least negotiate an arrangement that leaves you with some dignity.
Good Luck!
Personally I look to you guys to take the fight to them and not cave in.
At the very least negotiate an arrangement that leaves you with some dignity.
Good Luck!
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Would be a fantastic ad campaign for the unions....
Highly paid and generally well informed and organised professional airline pilots, on some of the most competetive rates in the world, are now facing a situation where they are being offered a take it or leave it EBA. Threats have already been made by management if they don't accept it they will lose their entitlements and their jobs will be handed over to "plenty of other blokes who want it".....
What hope for you without all their resources.... bargaining individually.
Is this Howards idea of of increasing job security, wages etc.....
They can play the patriotic card.... fly the flag.... stir the soul with the spirit of australia and i still call australia home...
QF enjoys a brand loyalty similiar to Holden and Ford ... start hitting the brand name hard.... jobs going overseas (get the right wingers wound up... maybe good opportunity for dicks brand maintenance) ... chinese employee safety standards... do they exist (get the lefties going every time)... could your job be next? (kitchener style)... get the me generation screaming....
The slogan as a jet turns off into the sunset... " taking australians overseas for 75 years... now just sending their jobs!"
Highly paid and generally well informed and organised professional airline pilots, on some of the most competetive rates in the world, are now facing a situation where they are being offered a take it or leave it EBA. Threats have already been made by management if they don't accept it they will lose their entitlements and their jobs will be handed over to "plenty of other blokes who want it".....
What hope for you without all their resources.... bargaining individually.
Is this Howards idea of of increasing job security, wages etc.....
They can play the patriotic card.... fly the flag.... stir the soul with the spirit of australia and i still call australia home...
QF enjoys a brand loyalty similiar to Holden and Ford ... start hitting the brand name hard.... jobs going overseas (get the right wingers wound up... maybe good opportunity for dicks brand maintenance) ... chinese employee safety standards... do they exist (get the lefties going every time)... could your job be next? (kitchener style)... get the me generation screaming....
The slogan as a jet turns off into the sunset... " taking australians overseas for 75 years... now just sending their jobs!"
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Spot on Capt Claret, got to love the lectures intertwined with abuse.
Who in their right mind would throw money at AIPA when a court battle hasn't sorted out if they can actually represent Jetstar pilots.
Who in their right mind would throw money at AIPA when a court battle hasn't sorted out if they can actually represent Jetstar pilots.
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Slightly curious - how would you compare the perceived "threats and intimidation" made by Mr Dixon, with writs issued against pilots during an industrial confrontation?
Would QANTAS pilots expect to receive at least moral support (and industrial sympathy) during any "confrontation" with QF management?
Or would they expect passive indifference?
It's a big wheel - but it's been kept turning by forces with vested interests.
Would QANTAS pilots expect to receive at least moral support (and industrial sympathy) during any "confrontation" with QF management?
Or would they expect passive indifference?
It's a big wheel - but it's been kept turning by forces with vested interests.
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SUPPORT FOR QANTAS PILOTS
You've got to be kidding! As Qantas pilots have been so busy for so long feathering their own nests while ignoring other groups who have been looking for much needed support, it's highly unlikely that anyone other than the pilots will give a toss.
Fact is, like it or not, many will say 'about f*****G time'. And I have to agree with that sentiment.
Fact is, like it or not, many will say 'about f*****G time'. And I have to agree with that sentiment.
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Some of the groups that fall into the category that Don mentioned are,
The ex Southerns pilots
The Impulse / Jetstar pilots
The National Jet pilots
The Easterns pilots
The Sunstate pilots
Every one of these groups would have benefited from much needed support from the mainline group at one time or another.
Somehow I think if mainline pilots make any sort of stand it will be very much by themselves.
"As ye sow, so shall ye reap"
The ex Southerns pilots
The Impulse / Jetstar pilots
The National Jet pilots
The Easterns pilots
The Sunstate pilots
Every one of these groups would have benefited from much needed support from the mainline group at one time or another.
Somehow I think if mainline pilots make any sort of stand it will be very much by themselves.
"As ye sow, so shall ye reap"
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Back in 1965 or so when I was a sprog F/O on DC3s in Oz, an ex Spitfire pilot from the Big One, who was my Captain at the time, launched into a great tirade against the then Qantas pilots who wanted his/mine/domestic pilots, support for some claim or other!
His view was that they could go and get stuffed!... Because they never, ever, gave a stuff about domestic pilots. Especially since they were poncing about in Oz on airline ops during the war when he was getting shot at overseas!
40 yrs later I see no reason to not support that view still!
His view was that they could go and get stuffed!... Because they never, ever, gave a stuff about domestic pilots. Especially since they were poncing about in Oz on airline ops during the war when he was getting shot at overseas!
40 yrs later I see no reason to not support that view still!
Nunc est bibendum
Especially since they were poncing about in Oz on airline ops during the war when he was getting shot at overseas!
Many of my Qantas forebears saw more action than would have some of their RAAF bretheren. Interestingly, those QF drivers that are listed missing or listed as killed weren't actually in Australia being shot at by the local CWA militia on a training exercise! I bet they weren't carrying joy riders around either, somehow I suspect their cargo would have been primarily military in nature and their destinations not 'poncing around in Australia'.
Forty years ago you were being ignorant Amos. 40 yrs later I see nothing in your posts to not support that view still!
Nunc est bibendum
It's a shame amos, I'd mostly admired your posts for the experiences that you articulated and your point of view forthrightly put forward. You're right though, I am out of my depth. I should never have admired you opinions.
I may not have been alive in the '60s amos but that doesn't mean that I don't know some of the history of Qantas during WWII. It doesn't take much research to turn up this:
Or this.....
Or this.....
Most significantly is this:
What was that about research and being out of my depth pops?
I may not have been alive in the '60s amos but that doesn't mean that I don't know some of the history of Qantas during WWII. It doesn't take much research to turn up this:
Japanese Zeros shot down Captain Aub Koch's flying boat while he was evacuating women and children from Surabaya. Shot through the arm and leg, he swam 8km ashore. Later when another of his aircraft was lost near Port Moresby, he gave his lifebelt to a passenger and swam unaided for 19 hours. There were many similar acts of heroism.
Qantas crews later served in the battle zones of New Guinea. Combined Qantas and RAAF personnel flew Empire flying boats and Lockheed Lodestars, dropping supplies to Australian troops fighting their way along the famous Kokoda Trail. A Lockheed 10 and two Qantas DH86s later joined the New Guinea supply operations.
Qantas aircraft did a considerable amount of work evacuating civilians and wounded from New Guinea and later carried the first troops back into the area. Throughout the war Qantas maintained tenuous services to Britain, via South Africa at first, then through Ceylon (Sri Lanka) and India. Radio silence was a feature of most of the wartime flights, which included ferrying troops and supplies in extremely hazardous conditions.
The disappearance of the 'Circe'
Early in the morning of 28 February 1942, the last two Qantas Empire flying boats on the regular service between Java and Australia taxied from their moorings at Tjilatjap. The two pilots, Captain Stephen Howard in 'Corinthian' and Captain William Purton in 'Circe' had received instructions from Qantas Airways that they were to evacuate as many persons as possible from Tjilatjap to Broome in Western Australia. 'Corinthian' flew off first at 8.38 am AEST (Australian Eastern Standard Time) and Howard observed 'Circe' leaving its moorings for take-off, just two minutes later.
On board 'Circe' were 16 Dutch nationals and the four crew members:
Captain William Bloxham Purton
First Officer Mervyn William Bateman
Radio Operator Herbert George Anzac Oates
Purser James Lionel Hogan.
All were employees of Qantas,
Qantas alerted Allied aircraft flying over the area to keep a look out for the 'Circe' and also conducted an extensive search for the missing aircraft. No wreckage or bodies have ever been recovered and the mystery of the disappearance of the 'Circe' has never been solved.
Early in the morning of 28 February 1942, the last two Qantas Empire flying boats on the regular service between Java and Australia taxied from their moorings at Tjilatjap. The two pilots, Captain Stephen Howard in 'Corinthian' and Captain William Purton in 'Circe' had received instructions from Qantas Airways that they were to evacuate as many persons as possible from Tjilatjap to Broome in Western Australia. 'Corinthian' flew off first at 8.38 am AEST (Australian Eastern Standard Time) and Howard observed 'Circe' leaving its moorings for take-off, just two minutes later.
On board 'Circe' were 16 Dutch nationals and the four crew members:
Captain William Bloxham Purton
First Officer Mervyn William Bateman
Radio Operator Herbert George Anzac Oates
Purser James Lionel Hogan.
All were employees of Qantas,
Qantas alerted Allied aircraft flying over the area to keep a look out for the 'Circe' and also conducted an extensive search for the missing aircraft. No wreckage or bodies have ever been recovered and the mystery of the disappearance of the 'Circe' has never been solved.