Small A/C Threatens Sky Tower
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Glad to hear pilot is ok, can't help but feel sorry for him, but now it's time to take the concequences for doing a very silly thing, I mean what a nut bar!
Hope he knows how lucky he is to be alive. (not the first time this guys bent a plane)
I also feel a bit sorry for all the pilot's that has this guy's john hancock in their log book.
Ooh well at least brighted the election night up.....
If anyone's talking to .... let him know eagle are running interview's for fleet captian; probly just the kind they looken for
Hope he knows how lucky he is to be alive. (not the first time this guys bent a plane)
I also feel a bit sorry for all the pilot's that has this guy's john hancock in their log book.
Ooh well at least brighted the election night up.....
If anyone's talking to .... let him know eagle are running interview's for fleet captian; probly just the kind they looken for
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Has anyone thought to actually stop alot of these posts? The pilot a crazed loon, a person hell bent on destruction, or someone with many problems....NO IDEA!
You lot slanging at each other is why we have a lot of hassles in GA and aviation full stop.
It happens in ships, cars, large machinery, armed forces and yes even in aviation. People get themselves motivated by whatever source and do bloody stupid and dangerous things. They break the law, they must then reap what they sow.
Off topic... I know both Kym and Tony from that story many posts back and both are damn nice blokes, sad that a building and extras were dumped on them.
You lot slanging at each other is why we have a lot of hassles in GA and aviation full stop.
It happens in ships, cars, large machinery, armed forces and yes even in aviation. People get themselves motivated by whatever source and do bloody stupid and dangerous things. They break the law, they must then reap what they sow.
Off topic... I know both Kym and Tony from that story many posts back and both are damn nice blokes, sad that a building and extras were dumped on them.
Last edited by maxgrad; 21st Sep 2005 at 15:08.
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maxgrad....could,nt agree more...these type of actions are not new to the aviation industry or to others...as rightly pointed out,there are numerous instances that one can refer to...several posts have refered that you are able to spot "these blokes"a km away....NOT!!!!!Ihave been privy to several situations in my own company where by the individuals have been regarded as the "salt of the earth" types and gone and done something so out of nature,that you dont even want to believe it........when it is all said and done, the catalyst that started the whole thing itself is unbeliveable......I am part of the FFDO,..Federal Flight Deck Officer programme,....sometime,s I have to look twice at who,s "packing the heat"...I went through the programme,hopefully nobody goes crazy......peolpe do strange things..even if "certified "as "Normal" ...tukukitanga
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As aviation personnel we are trained extensively to operate in a proactive fashion towards flight safety and become very practised in the art of what is percieved as "the norm" and spend our whole lives avioding anything that could possibly take us out of this norm, this is healthy as it keeps us out of trouble. As a result we tend to have very little understanding about the aftermath or what actually happens when it does go pear shaped and don't have the skills to deal with such events and often fall into denial and redicule of those unfortunate enough to be involved which is a shame as there may be lessons lost with such events that could possibly only be a moment away from reality to ourselves or our colleagues.
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I've copped a bit of flak for my posts but aviation is not very tolerant of stupidity or incompetence. There's plenty of it around and eventually it catches up with you but as I mentioned above the small majority who have a history are the ones that cause the problems and I reckon you can see it coming.
A psychology test when applying for a job is all well and good but people change and errant behaviour amongst our colleagues needs to be noted and reported if it becomes necessary. There is a process available and if you think someones load is shifting then it is incumbent on you to report it.
A psychology test when applying for a job is all well and good but people change and errant behaviour amongst our colleagues needs to be noted and reported if it becomes necessary. There is a process available and if you think someones load is shifting then it is incumbent on you to report it.
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And let me tell you skol, that you sitting up there yet AGAIN in this thread, damning a good bloke by implication yet AGAIN with yet ANOTHER smug little psychoanalysis, is utterly offensive garbage.
Talking about 'stupidity' and 'incompetence' with regard to Dave T is absolute ****ing bollocks that shows total disregard for a top man / professional aviator / 'A' cat instructor / examiner / general aviation guru type who I'll bet has forgotten more about flying than you are ever likely to know.
The only facts that appear to have been published are that the man's wife had just walked out on him, for reasons that are none of our business to discuss. I can tell you though from my casual observations, that if my marriage was as loved up and happy and committed as Dave's seemed to be, and then it all of a sudden fell apart, I imagine that it would be one earth shattering event that would test the depths of any man's stress handling capacity. Whatever else was going on in his life I aren't interested in speculating on, but the point is that we've ALL got a breaking point, every one of us, and maybe we should just be glad that most of us will never get to find out what that breaking point is and how we would react.
Try and show a bit of compassion towards a good man that you've never even met skol, rather than sitting up there handing out yet another
ing sermon about how we should have all spotted this nutter who was clearly hiding in our midst all these years. If you can't handle that then please p!ss off out of this thread, because your continued ignorant pronouncements are about as welcome as a plate of ham sandwiches at a jewish wedding
Talking about 'stupidity' and 'incompetence' with regard to Dave T is absolute ****ing bollocks that shows total disregard for a top man / professional aviator / 'A' cat instructor / examiner / general aviation guru type who I'll bet has forgotten more about flying than you are ever likely to know.
The only facts that appear to have been published are that the man's wife had just walked out on him, for reasons that are none of our business to discuss. I can tell you though from my casual observations, that if my marriage was as loved up and happy and committed as Dave's seemed to be, and then it all of a sudden fell apart, I imagine that it would be one earth shattering event that would test the depths of any man's stress handling capacity. Whatever else was going on in his life I aren't interested in speculating on, but the point is that we've ALL got a breaking point, every one of us, and maybe we should just be glad that most of us will never get to find out what that breaking point is and how we would react.
Try and show a bit of compassion towards a good man that you've never even met skol, rather than sitting up there handing out yet another
ing sermon about how we should have all spotted this nutter who was clearly hiding in our midst all these years. If you can't handle that then please p!ss off out of this thread, because your continued ignorant pronouncements are about as welcome as a plate of ham sandwiches at a jewish wedding
Maybe I need to stop proof reading my posts to fit in these days!
sh!tloads of hip shots being fired here.
My points on this topic:
Super surprised, can't believe it. The last guy I would have expected to spit the dummy.
I wish him well in the re-hab, not a quick fix by any stretch of the imagination.
I think he picked the wrong method, and in such has created some serious questions at many levels as a result.
No doubt he will now have to face up to the consequences and good luck to him.
Dissappointed that some here have harped on about the terrorist implications even after the real truth was known. Agreed that there are potential scenarios, none of which haven't been considered before: more credit must be given to the appropriate authorities. They are quite good at their jobs!
Given the nature of this situation and the now well known storyline, continuing that line of argument is not going to have any sort of positive outcome (general agreement), particularly when compared to the general tone of this thread.
We may very well have collectively dodged a bullet, but reality is indeed a multi-layered beast and to focus so much single minded energy on any one aspect is being naive and stubborn.
Anonymous or not, surely we can debate at a higher level than we have been?
sh!tloads of hip shots being fired here.
My points on this topic:
Super surprised, can't believe it. The last guy I would have expected to spit the dummy.
I wish him well in the re-hab, not a quick fix by any stretch of the imagination.
I think he picked the wrong method, and in such has created some serious questions at many levels as a result.
No doubt he will now have to face up to the consequences and good luck to him.
Dissappointed that some here have harped on about the terrorist implications even after the real truth was known. Agreed that there are potential scenarios, none of which haven't been considered before: more credit must be given to the appropriate authorities. They are quite good at their jobs!
Given the nature of this situation and the now well known storyline, continuing that line of argument is not going to have any sort of positive outcome (general agreement), particularly when compared to the general tone of this thread.
We may very well have collectively dodged a bullet, but reality is indeed a multi-layered beast and to focus so much single minded energy on any one aspect is being naive and stubborn.
Anonymous or not, surely we can debate at a higher level than we have been?
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Monitoring only works if the person being monitored is in stable, long-term employment - that is the only way to detect behaviour patterns that are not normal for that individual.
Secondly, if a person reaches their limit, and yet is lucid enough to get in an aircraft and fly it perfectly competently to the scene of the crime, they have clearly made a series of quite deliberate bad decisions. You can't entirely excuse those decisions on the basis of his personal life, or perceived status as aviation hero and all-round great chap.
I think you only really find out a persons true character when they are under tremendous stress. This is certainly true in aviation - some fight all the way to the end, others give up when it all gets too hard. I remember watching the program about the Alaska Airlines MD80 that lost elevator control - those guys were still thinking and fighting all the way to the end. They never gave up.
In the current case, this guy lost it in the face of severe personal stress and chose the wrong path entirely. Some of you here may like him or count him as your friend, but I am afraid he has displayed the opposite qualities to those you would expect.
I feel desperately sorry for him, and wish I could help in some way - but I would never, ever want this guy flying my family around. Sorry.
Secondly, if a person reaches their limit, and yet is lucid enough to get in an aircraft and fly it perfectly competently to the scene of the crime, they have clearly made a series of quite deliberate bad decisions. You can't entirely excuse those decisions on the basis of his personal life, or perceived status as aviation hero and all-round great chap.
I think you only really find out a persons true character when they are under tremendous stress. This is certainly true in aviation - some fight all the way to the end, others give up when it all gets too hard. I remember watching the program about the Alaska Airlines MD80 that lost elevator control - those guys were still thinking and fighting all the way to the end. They never gave up.
In the current case, this guy lost it in the face of severe personal stress and chose the wrong path entirely. Some of you here may like him or count him as your friend, but I am afraid he has displayed the opposite qualities to those you would expect.
I feel desperately sorry for him, and wish I could help in some way - but I would never, ever want this guy flying my family around. Sorry.
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This whole episode is a salutary lesson for us all. When our world starts to collapse, as it surely will sometime in our lives, it becomes incumbent upon us to still think of others and not just ourselves. Just because life seems to be at an end does not mean that you make a series of conscious decisions that will obviously endanger others as well as yourself. There simply can't be any justification for endangering actions or we should do away with community laws designed to protect all of us.
Please believe me when I say that I empathise with this man and I do wish him the best of outcomes given the circumstances. I don't know him personally and you can all say "butt out" but I agree broadly with Raw Data's opinion.
With regard to it being classified as a terrorist action, how could anyone have known what it was in the heat of the moment?Surely the best option is to assume the worst and act quickly on that assumption. Even a small aircraft in the hands of a clear-minded desperado could have wreaked havoc if it was loaded with plastic explosives and/or toxic substances. Some would say that the pilot would not have broadcast his/her intentions in such a scenario but, once again, post 9/11, how do we know what a terrorist looks like or how he will act.
Safe flying guys!
Please believe me when I say that I empathise with this man and I do wish him the best of outcomes given the circumstances. I don't know him personally and you can all say "butt out" but I agree broadly with Raw Data's opinion.
With regard to it being classified as a terrorist action, how could anyone have known what it was in the heat of the moment?Surely the best option is to assume the worst and act quickly on that assumption. Even a small aircraft in the hands of a clear-minded desperado could have wreaked havoc if it was loaded with plastic explosives and/or toxic substances. Some would say that the pilot would not have broadcast his/her intentions in such a scenario but, once again, post 9/11, how do we know what a terrorist looks like or how he will act.
Safe flying guys!
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Luke,
You are the one intent on sticking the knife in to anyone who disagrees with you. I am making what I consider to be objective unemotional observations. Public safety first, everything else second.
Your mate may well know more about aviation than me-if he started flying before March 7th 1965.
You are the one intent on sticking the knife in to anyone who disagrees with you. I am making what I consider to be objective unemotional observations. Public safety first, everything else second.
Your mate may well know more about aviation than me-if he started flying before March 7th 1965.
Last edited by skol; 23rd Sep 2005 at 00:51.
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Have to agree with skol here. A load of emotional twaddle from Luke SkyToddler.
To draw a parallel for a moment, if you had just had an accident and ended up in A&E requiring major surgery to repair your shattered body, would you be asking the surgeon about his emotional state? Or would you assume that, professional that he or she is, they would either rise above their personal problems or decline to do the surgery on you? Remember, it is YOUR life at stake.
Doctors, pilots, even bus drivers are held to a higher standard than the rest of the population. Part of being a professional is having the ability to recognise when your stress level is too high, and to choose not to engage in your profession whilst so affected.
This guy was thinking only of himself, he acted in a totally unprofessional manner and whilst I feel sorry for him, you simply can't allow that sort of thing.
To draw a parallel for a moment, if you had just had an accident and ended up in A&E requiring major surgery to repair your shattered body, would you be asking the surgeon about his emotional state? Or would you assume that, professional that he or she is, they would either rise above their personal problems or decline to do the surgery on you? Remember, it is YOUR life at stake.
Doctors, pilots, even bus drivers are held to a higher standard than the rest of the population. Part of being a professional is having the ability to recognise when your stress level is too high, and to choose not to engage in your profession whilst so affected.
This guy was thinking only of himself, he acted in a totally unprofessional manner and whilst I feel sorry for him, you simply can't allow that sort of thing.
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This guy was obviously popular and a good instructor in the past.
BUT if all of us used a relationship break up, or indeed any other trauma as an excuse to take someone else's property and destroy it, (whether he had access to the keys or not doesn't mean he didn't steal it) as well as all the other trouble and expense he caused, where would the world be?
If he wanted to destroy property as a "cry for help", then couldn't he at least have destroyed something of his own? Even targeted the reason for his angst rather than wreck an aircraft?
This is why I can't undestand those who are defending what he did because he's "a good bloke going through a bad time" would they feel the same if he had stolen their car, or landed the plane on their house, maybe threatened to kill their family, out for a treat in the restuarant?
Sad when people crack, but you cant defend the indefensible.
Can't wait to see what new draconian measures we are all going to have put up with in the name of "security" thanks to this guy's actions.
BUT if all of us used a relationship break up, or indeed any other trauma as an excuse to take someone else's property and destroy it, (whether he had access to the keys or not doesn't mean he didn't steal it) as well as all the other trouble and expense he caused, where would the world be?
If he wanted to destroy property as a "cry for help", then couldn't he at least have destroyed something of his own? Even targeted the reason for his angst rather than wreck an aircraft?
This is why I can't undestand those who are defending what he did because he's "a good bloke going through a bad time" would they feel the same if he had stolen their car, or landed the plane on their house, maybe threatened to kill their family, out for a treat in the restuarant?
Sad when people crack, but you cant defend the indefensible.
Can't wait to see what new draconian measures we are all going to have put up with in the name of "security" thanks to this guy's actions.
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All right fair call. I'm not defending what he did because it is indefensible, and I absolutely agree 110% that he is not welcome anywhere near an aircraft of any sort, until he's had a LOT of professional help and the people who are responsible for such things have determined that he's cured of whatever went wrong with him that night. Stealing other people's highly valuable aircraft and trashing them is a crime that absolutely deserves to be punished, and I'm sure that it will be. Threatening to take out the Sky Tower while you're doing it is just ... well I don't know what the word is but it's certainly a big old cry for help among other things.
But the real thing that bothers us who know him, nike, splat, myself and I'm sure a few others on this thread, is that he's just one of the boys. It certainly shakes your belief in the fact that it's only feeble minded people or nutters or people with psychiatric histories who do that kind of stuff, because he just doesn't fit into any of those categories at all.
It certainly makes you think about what all the other normal everyday people around you are capable of, maybe even makes you wonder how you would react.
Enough said. Dave if you're reading this from your jail cell or whatever then just know that Im thinking of you mate, I've got faith in you to get through this sh!t and I wish you all the best.
Luke out.
But the real thing that bothers us who know him, nike, splat, myself and I'm sure a few others on this thread, is that he's just one of the boys. It certainly shakes your belief in the fact that it's only feeble minded people or nutters or people with psychiatric histories who do that kind of stuff, because he just doesn't fit into any of those categories at all.
It certainly makes you think about what all the other normal everyday people around you are capable of, maybe even makes you wonder how you would react.
Enough said. Dave if you're reading this from your jail cell or whatever then just know that Im thinking of you mate, I've got faith in you to get through this sh!t and I wish you all the best.
Luke out.
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I met DT
a few times and new him from Massey and all i can say is what a tool he is and what a tool he was back then...How the mighty do fall what a loser..hope they through him in jail
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Have to agree with Ronnie Honker a while back on page 4. There's too much defending of DT considering what the bugger got up too. Yeah it's sad but I always thought the guy was a complete prat and I'm not that surprised by what happened. Obviously how I knew the bloke and my opinion is in stark contrast to some of you others, I just want to offer another point of view to those that didn't know him. I suppose that's 2 crashes he can put in his logbook now and at least it shows that Eagle Air's interview process is good for something!
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He's a nutcase and should be sent packing!
No he's not, he just had a tough time
You can't defend his actions
But me and me cobbers had a beer with him!
He's a nutcase........................
Etc,etc, etc
No he's not, he just had a tough time
You can't defend his actions
But me and me cobbers had a beer with him!
He's a nutcase........................
Etc,etc, etc
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Had the pleasure of flying into Auckland from Oz on the night in question.
The controllers told us that they had a "rogue" aircraft not responding to any ATC transmissions and told us to expect vectoring and/or holding until it could be sorted out.
It was also suggested that they may be making a "political" statement.
Fortunately the character in question had flown into the water (unbeknownst to us) and we were given normal tracking.
It was only when we listened to the radio on the way to the pub did we realise what had happened.
It amazes me that individuals come to the defence of this person that could have conceivably wrought untold carnage to the Skytower with the resultant massive losses of life and property.
Imagine if this individual did what he set out to do?
What would the reaction and attitudes have been then?
How would this damage New Zealands reputation worldwide?
If this was any other country in the world he would have been shot out of the sky using any means available.
In my opinion this person should never, ever be let loose around an aircraft again and should be banned from all airports nationwide forever.
Yes, we all have extremely low points in our lives but tragically some individuals take their own lives rather than threaten the lives of hundreds of others.
Luke Skytoddler - this person should never ever be allowed anywhere near an airport or aircraft again....period.
All we need is for some idiot soft-cock shrink to cut another one loose with no follow up supervision.
This person stole an aircraft, violated numerous air navigation rules/regs, endangered the lives of everyone on the ground and endangered property.
Perhaps Luke Skytoddler would prefer we use harsh language as a treatment?
The controllers told us that they had a "rogue" aircraft not responding to any ATC transmissions and told us to expect vectoring and/or holding until it could be sorted out.
It was also suggested that they may be making a "political" statement.
Fortunately the character in question had flown into the water (unbeknownst to us) and we were given normal tracking.
It was only when we listened to the radio on the way to the pub did we realise what had happened.
It amazes me that individuals come to the defence of this person that could have conceivably wrought untold carnage to the Skytower with the resultant massive losses of life and property.
Imagine if this individual did what he set out to do?
What would the reaction and attitudes have been then?
How would this damage New Zealands reputation worldwide?
If this was any other country in the world he would have been shot out of the sky using any means available.
In my opinion this person should never, ever be let loose around an aircraft again and should be banned from all airports nationwide forever.
Yes, we all have extremely low points in our lives but tragically some individuals take their own lives rather than threaten the lives of hundreds of others.
Luke Skytoddler - this person should never ever be allowed anywhere near an airport or aircraft again....period.
All we need is for some idiot soft-cock shrink to cut another one loose with no follow up supervision.
This person stole an aircraft, violated numerous air navigation rules/regs, endangered the lives of everyone on the ground and endangered property.
Perhaps Luke Skytoddler would prefer we use harsh language as a treatment?
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Nah, Luke's his mate. He just wants him to get out of jail ASAP and resume flying because, after all, he's just one of the boys, and we would all do the same in his shoes.
Right?
Right?