Small A/C Threatens Sky Tower
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I'm glad that there are people giving this their attention and opinion. There is a time for force and there is a time for restraint- it is threat and risk analysis. This was a time for negotiation and restraint.
The guy will NEVER be allowed to fly again and I believe this is correct.
As for the charges.....wait and see. There is, at this stage, an "Unlawfully taking a motor vehicle" and most likely some type of "threatening" offence. The colour of right argument is correct.....he did not have colour of right and therefore no authority to take this a/c.
Let's not try and crack a wallnut with a sledgehammer....
The guy will NEVER be allowed to fly again and I believe this is correct.
As for the charges.....wait and see. There is, at this stage, an "Unlawfully taking a motor vehicle" and most likely some type of "threatening" offence. The colour of right argument is correct.....he did not have colour of right and therefore no authority to take this a/c.
Let's not try and crack a wallnut with a sledgehammer....
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Mate, you do the crime, you do the time.
If it was not a crime, let him go home and relax, kick back and enjoy the week.
On the otherhand if he committed a crime - I'm sorry but we are all responsible for our actions and must face the consequences. Too often do we see this PC world excuse someone because we no longer believe people have to stand up and be responsible for their actions.
I hope he gets all the help possible just like any other person would be entitled to. Let us not pretend this was not what it is: an action designed to cause a reaction. Unfortunately that action involved the breach of rights of other innocent civilians.
If it was not a crime, let him go home and relax, kick back and enjoy the week.
On the otherhand if he committed a crime - I'm sorry but we are all responsible for our actions and must face the consequences. Too often do we see this PC world excuse someone because we no longer believe people have to stand up and be responsible for their actions.
I hope he gets all the help possible just like any other person would be entitled to. Let us not pretend this was not what it is: an action designed to cause a reaction. Unfortunately that action involved the breach of rights of other innocent civilians.
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Luke:
Two questions:
(1) What makes you believe that - do we have some other anti-air capability spread around NZ that we don't know about?
(2) Why not analyze that on a public forum? If a bunch of half-informed spotters on an obscure website can find the achilles heel in NZ's fortress-like defences, I'm fairly sure that anyone who really wants to has already done the same.
Also, a comment on the preceding posts: a air attack force would not have helped in resolving this situation, unless you propose having two jets on ready-5 alert 24/7 near every major city in NZ. And even the US can't do that.
I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the NZ security forces actually still have some ability to respond to those type of truly extreme situations, even though we no longer have the old Skyhawks. Best we don't really analyze that possibility any more deeply on a public internet forum though,
(1) What makes you believe that - do we have some other anti-air capability spread around NZ that we don't know about?
(2) Why not analyze that on a public forum? If a bunch of half-informed spotters on an obscure website can find the achilles heel in NZ's fortress-like defences, I'm fairly sure that anyone who really wants to has already done the same.
Also, a comment on the preceding posts: a air attack force would not have helped in resolving this situation, unless you propose having two jets on ready-5 alert 24/7 near every major city in NZ. And even the US can't do that.
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Jesus, a PA28 would bounce off the bloody skytower anyway.
All you terrorism chicken littles need to remember - NZ hasnt been ar*e f**cking the middle east with dodgy foreign policy for 20 plus years. I really dont see NZ as a major target for terrorism, do you?
All you terrorism chicken littles need to remember - NZ hasnt been ar*e f**cking the middle east with dodgy foreign policy for 20 plus years. I really dont see NZ as a major target for terrorism, do you?
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Regardless of what sort of person he is and the reasons for his actions how about considering the repercussions of his little escapade.
What about the people that dived into the water to drag him out, the crews of the Police, Westpac and other choppers. The loss of revenue from those businesses that were forced to close etc. What about the owner of the aircraft? They are now facing loss of revenue, increased insurance premiums, bad publicity etc. And as he flew over my house he put me and my family as risk (low on fuel, upset, bad stormy night etc).
TV3 ran an item last night showing how easy it is to steal an aircraft from Ardmore which included Peter Clarke telling the world that it is easy to hotwire one! Plus that in Australia they have increased security on GA aircraft and fields.
So what now? Am I going to have to pay out of my pocket for new fences and security around the country? New locks etc for my aircraft? More in premiums? Closure or restrictions of airspace etc.
Whatever his motive or intentions and putting aside that he may be a “good bloke”, what he did was rather selfish.
What about the people that dived into the water to drag him out, the crews of the Police, Westpac and other choppers. The loss of revenue from those businesses that were forced to close etc. What about the owner of the aircraft? They are now facing loss of revenue, increased insurance premiums, bad publicity etc. And as he flew over my house he put me and my family as risk (low on fuel, upset, bad stormy night etc).
TV3 ran an item last night showing how easy it is to steal an aircraft from Ardmore which included Peter Clarke telling the world that it is easy to hotwire one! Plus that in Australia they have increased security on GA aircraft and fields.
So what now? Am I going to have to pay out of my pocket for new fences and security around the country? New locks etc for my aircraft? More in premiums? Closure or restrictions of airspace etc.
Whatever his motive or intentions and putting aside that he may be a “good bloke”, what he did was rather selfish.
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Luke Sky Toddler,
You said " and he can continue in some way to make the enormously positive contribution that he has made to the kiwi industry for the last couple of decades"
The New Zealand Herald reports that a 33 year old man has been arrested in connection with this incident.
Is it the same person?? did a 13 year old commence making this "enormously positive contribution" to the kiwi industry??
As spindoctor states, many people will now have to modify their activities because of this act of stupidity.
Prospector
You said " and he can continue in some way to make the enormously positive contribution that he has made to the kiwi industry for the last couple of decades"
The New Zealand Herald reports that a 33 year old man has been arrested in connection with this incident.
Is it the same person?? did a 13 year old commence making this "enormously positive contribution" to the kiwi industry??
As spindoctor states, many people will now have to modify their activities because of this act of stupidity.
Prospector
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LST, good to hear from you! Its just unfortunate that it had to be in relation to something like this.
DT was(is) a bloody good guy, extremley intelligent and has alot to offer the industry. Unfortunatley due to major relationship problems he has tipped over the edge.
I'm not going to defend his actions in anyway, I think what he did was possibly the dumbest thing he will ever do in his life. However think about it, DT was going to end his life that night the consequences of his actions most likely wouldn't have gone through his mind.
DT is not a terrorist, if he was had the skill and knowledge to go through with hitting the sky tower before anybody knew what was happening.
DT, good luck to you horse take your punishment and do the best to patch up your life.
DT was(is) a bloody good guy, extremley intelligent and has alot to offer the industry. Unfortunatley due to major relationship problems he has tipped over the edge.
I'm not going to defend his actions in anyway, I think what he did was possibly the dumbest thing he will ever do in his life. However think about it, DT was going to end his life that night the consequences of his actions most likely wouldn't have gone through his mind.
DT is not a terrorist, if he was had the skill and knowledge to go through with hitting the sky tower before anybody knew what was happening.
DT, good luck to you horse take your punishment and do the best to patch up your life.
I think TV3 bought up quite a valid point re the security at aerodromes, Ardmore in particular. Because there is no scheduled commercial activity security is somewhat neglected compared to the control there is at the designated security aerdromes.
Ardmore however is NZ's busiest aerodrome and there are a lot of aircraft that can be very easily accessed with no trouble at all as the TV3 item showed.
The Australian approach with the ASIC cards does have some merit but graft that onto an Ardmore type aerodrome in NZ and the costs would be prohibitive to already tight operations.
It has been mentioned in the media that in general the threat is low because people who do gain access to an aircraft will either not be able to start or even fly the thing or they will be deterred by the consequence of their potential actions. This may not always be the case have we have seen.
It is not possible to account for every imaginable scenario but is a new approach to security at aerodromes in respect of light aircraft required?
Ardmore however is NZ's busiest aerodrome and there are a lot of aircraft that can be very easily accessed with no trouble at all as the TV3 item showed.
The Australian approach with the ASIC cards does have some merit but graft that onto an Ardmore type aerodrome in NZ and the costs would be prohibitive to already tight operations.
It has been mentioned in the media that in general the threat is low because people who do gain access to an aircraft will either not be able to start or even fly the thing or they will be deterred by the consequence of their potential actions. This may not always be the case have we have seen.
It is not possible to account for every imaginable scenario but is a new approach to security at aerodromes in respect of light aircraft required?
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If you did that, you would probably put half the operators out of business. Fences, security guards, lights, ID cards, it would cost a fortune.
Far better solution would be to simply secure the aircraft properly. A nice big chain from the tie-down to a ring in the ground attached to a large lump of concrete should do it.
Of course none of measures suggested on this thread would have prevented this incident.
More to the point, how many aircraft have been stolen over the years? (Apart from CGI?)
Far better solution would be to simply secure the aircraft properly. A nice big chain from the tie-down to a ring in the ground attached to a large lump of concrete should do it.
Of course none of measures suggested on this thread would have prevented this incident.
More to the point, how many aircraft have been stolen over the years? (Apart from CGI?)
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Aircraft threatens Sky Tower (Sic)
I just had to say that I have known DT for quite some time - and a lot much have happened for him to get to this point - however, I can be assured that he is not a terrorist and I wish him all the best in getting back on track.
I for one would have no hesitation in spending time with DT and you'd struggle to find a more genuine caring guy.
D
I for one would have no hesitation in spending time with DT and you'd struggle to find a more genuine caring guy.
D
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How to prevent this happening again??
I do not know the pilot concerned, even though I am Ardmore based. From all the posts, it seems like a small personal situation (which happens hundreds of times every day in New Zealand) spiralled out of control and lead to some very foolish decisions.
A problem shared is a problem halved. If you want someone to talk to, then contact me (or another of your mates). I will find the time, even if it is three in the morning.
ECT
A problem shared is a problem halved. If you want someone to talk to, then contact me (or another of your mates). I will find the time, even if it is three in the morning.
ECT
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ECT that was the most constructive thing anyone has said on this post so far!
Good on you, if there was more pilots with your attitude at Ardmore it wouldn't be falling apart like it is now..
Oh and Massey058
..Ardmore was NZs busiest field..not now..I'd say TG or HN would have more going on on any given day..if you want to know why..just look in the Airport Companies direction
Good on you, if there was more pilots with your attitude at Ardmore it wouldn't be falling apart like it is now..
Oh and Massey058
..Ardmore was NZs busiest field..not now..I'd say TG or HN would have more going on on any given day..if you want to know why..just look in the Airport Companies direction
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On the issue of aerodrome security....there are a couple of posters from Australia critical of NZ aerodrome security. It is almost impossible to stop someone like this obtaining an aircraft. He had a photo id card and would have had access airside if there was a fence there. How could NZ or even Australia.....or even the US....fence every airstrip which has the possibility of a plane being overnighted? The americans don't do it as it is not practical. Once a fence is there you need a lot of manpower to police it. There are literally dozens of incidents around the world each year including one recently in Sydney where the international airports have had someone scale the fence and board a vacant jet. It would cost billions of dollars and there is no way that the industry could sustain that cost. It is about risk mitigation not elimination. Where someone has a will, they will find a way. Before I am labelled soft, it does not mean we should not do everything in our power to stop this. Who knows what the answer is? Imobilisers like cars? Runway obstructions? The list could go on but to eliminate this we would almost have to shut down an airport and thus remove it from being an option in an emergency.
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In terms of security, we need to look at how secure the keys are and also, was the cherokee hotwired (doubtful but a consideration now after whatshisnames tv3 outburst).
If the cherokee was hotwired, im sure engine immobilisers would suffice in place of fencing off AR. Plenty of you have engine immobilisers fitted to your cars and some of you may have pagers that go off when your car is being broken into/started.
If access to keys are the issue, can't they be held offsite after hours?
If the cherokee was hotwired, im sure engine immobilisers would suffice in place of fencing off AR. Plenty of you have engine immobilisers fitted to your cars and some of you may have pagers that go off when your car is being broken into/started.
If access to keys are the issue, can't they be held offsite after hours?
Last edited by MikeKnight; 20th Sep 2005 at 09:53.
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Mike. Immobilisers were suggested some years ago but the FAA did not like the idea at all!! Just something else to go wrong that could definately cause the engine to go quiet - just when you need it!!
Some years ago we put a hidden kill switch in a magnetos earth lead. Very effective but for reasons above, I doubt that would ever be approved!
It seems to me a chain wound around the prop and padlock takes a lot of beating for low cost and effective immobilisation!
Woomera
Some years ago we put a hidden kill switch in a magnetos earth lead. Very effective but for reasons above, I doubt that would ever be approved!
It seems to me a chain wound around the prop and padlock takes a lot of beating for low cost and effective immobilisation!
Woomera
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A nice big chain from the tie-down to a ring in the ground attached to a large lump of concrete should do it.
Fortunately the Tower controller spotted it before the guy attempted the impossible.
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Knew this pilot a few years back and yep I agree he is a top bloke who is well experienced, qualified and has had a good reputation. I am shocked though I understand that people, and good people, can reach a breakdown point (message to us all here) and lets not kick this guy while he is down! Let the law take it's course. I believe that everyone desrves a fair deal and a second chance and I am sure that the last thing on this persons mind was doing others harm . It took a while to wade through this thread and many have had their say with skol and Oz ocker showing extreme attitudes (now theres a term thats been around a lot since 911) verging on ranting and raving proving the worlds paranoia since the twin towers incident (just as mr bin laden would have planned). This individuals career and his life have just taken a rapid turn in a moments action and I hope he has the strength and support to come out the other end and get on with his life.
Good luck..
BIM
Good luck..
BIM
Last edited by TAY 611; 20th Sep 2005 at 22:54.
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Woomera...ditto on the padlock idea...worked for a company flying Twin Otters.....the boss forgot to pay the IRS $600K....they showed up,padlocked all the props...and YUP,its sure hard to try to fly them 
Bottom line in this situation,at least no one else was hurt......kapai
Bottom line in this situation,at least no one else was hurt......kapai
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Sory guys ,I can't help myself.
Luke says in a previous post, "he's not exactly a bloke who's renowned for his tenuous grip on reality".
My experience is that you can pick the ones that are going to cause you some grief way in advance and I'm betting this will be a classic case.
Wait for it to come before the court.
Luke says in a previous post, "he's not exactly a bloke who's renowned for his tenuous grip on reality".
My experience is that you can pick the ones that are going to cause you some grief way in advance and I'm betting this will be a classic case.
Wait for it to come before the court.