Small A/C Threatens Sky Tower
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Oh dear, have we nothing better to argue about? Sadly NO amount of moaning and complaining is going to bring back the RNZAF strike wing so therefore this is all a little academic. Secondly IF there was a strike wing then I don't believe they would have reacted in time, because as MOR states he would have just gone and done it, not just talked about it for two hours. Did mohammed and his mates blab on the radio about how they wanted McDonalds out of Kabul and Ryiad? No , they just went and did it with no fu**ing about.
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Reality Check.
Lots of "good bloke" (he's and she's) pilots (train, bus, and truck drivers) go through stressful relationship break-ups, but don't resort to the actions of this person.
If YOU had been sitting in the Sky Tower with your family, and saw a light aircraft apparently threatening it, would YOU have continued merrily along, consoled by the "he's really a good bloke just going through a tough time" line?
Or would you have evacuated, because there was a possibility he WOULD drive the aircraft in?
(Don't worry, it's only a light aircraft, they don't make big bangs!)
My guess is this guy's career as a pilot is over.
He acted irresponsibly by stealing an aircraft, flew it illegally, used it in a threatening manner, as a potential weapon, and crashed it due to fuel exhaustion.
And SOME of you actually are trying to CONDONE his actions?!
Yes, he needs therapy - and I'm absolutely sure he'll get that, because he is a square peg in a round hole in society right now.
He'll probably also receive punishment for his CRIMES, but these will undoubtedly pale into insignificance compared with the loss of his profession as pilot, and the dollars and time he spent achieving that.
THAT will undoubtedly have a further impact on him psychologically.
Lots of "good bloke" (he's and she's) pilots (train, bus, and truck drivers) go through stressful relationship break-ups, but don't resort to the actions of this person.
If YOU had been sitting in the Sky Tower with your family, and saw a light aircraft apparently threatening it, would YOU have continued merrily along, consoled by the "he's really a good bloke just going through a tough time" line?
Or would you have evacuated, because there was a possibility he WOULD drive the aircraft in?
(Don't worry, it's only a light aircraft, they don't make big bangs!)
My guess is this guy's career as a pilot is over.
He acted irresponsibly by stealing an aircraft, flew it illegally, used it in a threatening manner, as a potential weapon, and crashed it due to fuel exhaustion.
And SOME of you actually are trying to CONDONE his actions?!
Yes, he needs therapy - and I'm absolutely sure he'll get that, because he is a square peg in a round hole in society right now.
He'll probably also receive punishment for his CRIMES, but these will undoubtedly pale into insignificance compared with the loss of his profession as pilot, and the dollars and time he spent achieving that.
THAT will undoubtedly have a further impact on him psychologically.
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You have to feel sorry for the guy, life obviously taken a bad turn for him but i imagine its nothing compared to what he's got in store for him now. Police really have no option but to throw the book at him. (regardless of his personal problems) If you want to get hung up on difinitions then yes it might be classed as terrorism. I beleive if the police had been really concerned then they could and would have brought him down.
Not and isolated incident in NZ. I remember 10+ years ago a man in Westport stole a 140 and crashed into the sea. Another incident dating back to the 60's when a crimm stole a C150 and ditched it in a lake in Fiordland with the intention if faking his own death and living bush for a while. Eventually he missed his local and retuned, the police caught him and he told them where he "parked" the aircraft. The real interesting part is that they actually retreived the 150 and its still flying to this day. (i beleive in Wellington)
Its a very hard thing to protect against and as was earlier noted, only makes it harder for the rest of us in GA and gives lots of whack jobs out there with a point to prove an idea.
Skol- its a small game and alot of people are mates with this dude, you really expect them to let you get stuck into him and compare him to a terrorist nut case? Drop it, you've made your point. By the way the police also have a helicopter, i doubt they'd throw westpac a couple of machine guns and ask them for a favour.
Not and isolated incident in NZ. I remember 10+ years ago a man in Westport stole a 140 and crashed into the sea. Another incident dating back to the 60's when a crimm stole a C150 and ditched it in a lake in Fiordland with the intention if faking his own death and living bush for a while. Eventually he missed his local and retuned, the police caught him and he told them where he "parked" the aircraft. The real interesting part is that they actually retreived the 150 and its still flying to this day. (i beleive in Wellington)
Its a very hard thing to protect against and as was earlier noted, only makes it harder for the rest of us in GA and gives lots of whack jobs out there with a point to prove an idea.
Skol- its a small game and alot of people are mates with this dude, you really expect them to let you get stuck into him and compare him to a terrorist nut case? Drop it, you've made your point. By the way the police also have a helicopter, i doubt they'd throw westpac a couple of machine guns and ask them for a favour.
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Shooting it down over the city would never happen for obvious reasons. Just evacuate the "target" and let him get on with it (which is what they did).
If you did want to shoot it down, and you couldn't wait for a military helo to do the job (far more effective than a Skyhawk would ever be), just stick the Armed Offenders boys in a civil helicopter and let them shoot it down - they have the firepower to do so.
You should all be impressed that the various officials involved in this drama didn't jump to conclusions, but did the most important thing - communicate with the guy - and create an acceptable outcome. He clearly wasn't threatening the Skytower by the time he crashed. If it was fuel exhaustion that did it, he may well have been on his way back to Ardmore.
Some of our more excitable posters need to calm down, take a few deep breaths, and see this for what it actually is - which is not a terrorist attack.
If you did want to shoot it down, and you couldn't wait for a military helo to do the job (far more effective than a Skyhawk would ever be), just stick the Armed Offenders boys in a civil helicopter and let them shoot it down - they have the firepower to do so.
You should all be impressed that the various officials involved in this drama didn't jump to conclusions, but did the most important thing - communicate with the guy - and create an acceptable outcome. He clearly wasn't threatening the Skytower by the time he crashed. If it was fuel exhaustion that did it, he may well have been on his way back to Ardmore.
Some of our more excitable posters need to calm down, take a few deep breaths, and see this for what it actually is - which is not a terrorist attack.
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Some of our more excitable posters need to calm down, take a few deep breaths, and see this for what it actually is - which is not a terrorist attack.
Read Oz Ocker's post about Colin Forman and Connellan.
It took him 4 hours to fly there and he circled for another 1 hour before crashing.
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Heard this guy was away from NZ for 6 months. I exactly know where and I think it would explain why his relationship did not last and why he just lost it.
Know of a couple of blokes who did the same (working there) and actually lost it too only to return to be stronger, better pilots. But as we all know, we aint all the same.
Hope he gets help. Sad to see a pilot who worked extremely hard to make his dream a reality lose it all.
Know of a couple of blokes who did the same (working there) and actually lost it too only to return to be stronger, better pilots. But as we all know, we aint all the same.
Hope he gets help. Sad to see a pilot who worked extremely hard to make his dream a reality lose it all.
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Pilot Arrested
Pilot arrested
National News Release, 11:01am 19 September 2005
A 33 year-old unemployed Titirangi man has been arrested and will appear in the Auckland District Court today to face a charge of unlawfully taking an aircraft.
His arrest follows an incident on Saturday night when a light aircraft was allegedly stolen from Ardmore Airport and flown over Auckland city for about two hours, during which time a threat was allegedly made to fly the plane into the Sky Tower.
Police will request that the man be remanded in custody without plea and will oppose bail. He was discharged from Auckland Hospital late this morning.
ENDS
Issued by Noreen Hegarty
Auckland City Police Communications Manager
Ph 09 302 6947 or 0274-951-589
Website: www.police.govt.nz
National News Release, 11:01am 19 September 2005
A 33 year-old unemployed Titirangi man has been arrested and will appear in the Auckland District Court today to face a charge of unlawfully taking an aircraft.
His arrest follows an incident on Saturday night when a light aircraft was allegedly stolen from Ardmore Airport and flown over Auckland city for about two hours, during which time a threat was allegedly made to fly the plane into the Sky Tower.
Police will request that the man be remanded in custody without plea and will oppose bail. He was discharged from Auckland Hospital late this morning.
ENDS
Issued by Noreen Hegarty
Auckland City Police Communications Manager
Ph 09 302 6947 or 0274-951-589
Website: www.police.govt.nz
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Lets just say it one more time for all those in the Media and on this forum who continue to get it wrong..
..he was an authorised instructor on the aircraft and didn't "steal it"..
..plenty of other things to charge him with but not theft!
..he was an authorised instructor on the aircraft and didn't "steal it"..
..plenty of other things to charge him with but not theft!
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Skol, your example was a 747, which would be a lot harder to take over single handedly when talking about incapacitating people as there is more than one. I bow before you as you have been multi-crew prior to my birth. My background is military, police and aviation. The same news conference which the Police admit to not being able to take him down also stated that if there were military aircraft available shooting him down over the city would be far more dangerous. You quite sarcastically refer to my "inside info" which I do indeed have. I know this guy's background and problems and the whole event from start to finish. This was not an organised terrorist event.
He has had problems and has forfeited his right to fly ever again. If you were to ever decide to kill people then a cherokee would be one of the most pathetic ways to do it.
As for theft, he has not been charged with it but "unlawful taking" which is legally different. It means that he didn't own it and didn't have the authority to use it the way he did.
Skol, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe that shooting him down would never be in the best interests of the public. Perhaps a large jet, but not a light a/c. Unfortunately in NZ we do not have that option. No amount of bluster will change that fact but a new Government. I personally believe we need military jets but this incident would not be the reason.
Although I feel sympathy for this guy I also believe that he needs to face the music for his actions which he inevitably will be doing. I in no way condone his actions but to say this is terrorism is ridiculous.
He has had problems and has forfeited his right to fly ever again. If you were to ever decide to kill people then a cherokee would be one of the most pathetic ways to do it.
As for theft, he has not been charged with it but "unlawful taking" which is legally different. It means that he didn't own it and didn't have the authority to use it the way he did.
Skol, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe that shooting him down would never be in the best interests of the public. Perhaps a large jet, but not a light a/c. Unfortunately in NZ we do not have that option. No amount of bluster will change that fact but a new Government. I personally believe we need military jets but this incident would not be the reason.
Although I feel sympathy for this guy I also believe that he needs to face the music for his actions which he inevitably will be doing. I in no way condone his actions but to say this is terrorism is ridiculous.
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Knuckles, matey - if someone suddenly comes onto the radio and says he's gunna fly the light aircraft he's in, into a school fullov kids, and buzzes around the school half a dozen times, are you gunna tell the school kids and there parents, "Don't worry, he said the banks just repossessed his home, and he can't take any more. He's just having a bad hair day."
Note to terrorists in New Zealand: On yer next suicide mission, just tell air traffic control that you've busted up with your partner, that way they won't really believe that yore gunna drive it in.
And if it's a little airoplane, they'll take even less notice of you, because they KNOW that you can't make a big BANG (like those cars in Iraq that can kill 115 people at once.)
Note to terrorists in New Zealand: On yer next suicide mission, just tell air traffic control that you've busted up with your partner, that way they won't really believe that yore gunna drive it in.
And if it's a little airoplane, they'll take even less notice of you, because they KNOW that you can't make a big BANG (like those cars in Iraq that can kill 115 people at once.)
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oz you really do have a small simple wee mind dont you....
you have gone so far off the topic it shows how little your replys contribute to this thread .
I knew and worked with the guy. (some years ago know)
I DO NOT CONDONE what he did! Infact it was totally bloody stupid what he did......
However somtimes people snap..
Go back to the desert mate.... find a lonely kangaroo etc etc etc.
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My apologys muppet.
Your right somtimes people do "snap".
It's just that when a professonal pilot "snaps", I don't expect them ta unlawfully commandeer an airoplane and threaten ta fly it inta a public building full of innocent people.
That's one've the points i'm tryin ta make.
It wasn't stupid - it was dangerous, potentially life-threatening, and irresponsible.
As nicer a bloke as he might be, this was the actions of someons who should not be allowed near an airoplane (as a pilot) ever again. Sorry if the truth offends some of you sheep shaggers.
Your right somtimes people do "snap".
It's just that when a professonal pilot "snaps", I don't expect them ta unlawfully commandeer an airoplane and threaten ta fly it inta a public building full of innocent people.
That's one've the points i'm tryin ta make.
It wasn't stupid - it was dangerous, potentially life-threatening, and irresponsible.
As nicer a bloke as he might be, this was the actions of someons who should not be allowed near an airoplane (as a pilot) ever again. Sorry if the truth offends some of you sheep shaggers.
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The PC huggies say it's a cry for help. It's always someone elses fault, sexual abuse, the missus, stress, the boss, beaten as a child etc. Not many seem to want take responsibility for their actions as dumb as they may be. Especially in PCNZ.
A couple of posters say I've made my point so I'll give it a rest.
Here endeth the lesson.
A couple of posters say I've made my point so I'll give it a rest.
Here endeth the lesson.
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sorry matty, but you don't seem to understand the notion of 'colour of right' in relation to theft. look it up, it's in the crimes act, then get back to us. anyway, it appears that he's been charged with 'unlawful taking', which is different again.
and seeming how you seem to know so much, what 'other things' could he/should he be charged with?
and seeming how you seem to know so much, what 'other things' could he/should he be charged with?
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Well it seems a bit silly that TVNZ and the Herald published his name 24 hours ago and we're all still skirting around the edges of it in case the journalists find out ...
I just can't believe that an intelligent bloke like Dave Turnock would flip out like that ... I'm as amazed as all of us are who know him well. He's not exactly a bloke who's renowned for having a tenuous grip on reality, at least he wasn't when I last caught up with him. Whatever was going through his head on Saturday night I don't know obviously, but I am still bloody glad that no one shot him down as you all seem to wish.
All you trigger happy types out there need to get a grip, you must surely be aware that the police and security professionals do in fact have ops manuals just like we do, there are procedures in place to quickly analyze the threat level and respond according to that level of percieved threat. Sounds to me like they did their job exactly by the book, as it relates to armed offenders / hostage type situations, as it relates to acts by lone individuals and particularly when you determine that the motivation for the actions is short term individual stress (such as relationship breakup) then I believe a much higher percentage of safe outcomes are achieved by negotiation as opposed to going in there with guns blazing.
Of course if your threat analysis determines that you have a Mohammed Atta or a Beslan situation going on, then there is going to be a different response. And I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the NZ security forces actually still have some ability to respond to those type of truly extreme situations, even though we no longer have the old Skyhawks. Best we don't really analyze that possibility any more deeply on a public internet forum though, and I'm sure we all pray we never have to find out what that response might be.
Well I for one am still proud to call DT a mate and I'm going to stick by him, whatever rough times he's going through, now is the time when he's maybe going to need his mates to stick by him and help him get through this. No doubt he's going to find it difficult to get his pilot's licence and/or flying job back again but I hope for aviation's sake he can get whatever help and counselling he needs, someone can find a way to help him get his sh!t sorted / get his life back together, and he can continue in some way to make the enormously positive contribution that he's made to the kiwi industry for the last couple of decades.
I just can't believe that an intelligent bloke like Dave Turnock would flip out like that ... I'm as amazed as all of us are who know him well. He's not exactly a bloke who's renowned for having a tenuous grip on reality, at least he wasn't when I last caught up with him. Whatever was going through his head on Saturday night I don't know obviously, but I am still bloody glad that no one shot him down as you all seem to wish.
All you trigger happy types out there need to get a grip, you must surely be aware that the police and security professionals do in fact have ops manuals just like we do, there are procedures in place to quickly analyze the threat level and respond according to that level of percieved threat. Sounds to me like they did their job exactly by the book, as it relates to armed offenders / hostage type situations, as it relates to acts by lone individuals and particularly when you determine that the motivation for the actions is short term individual stress (such as relationship breakup) then I believe a much higher percentage of safe outcomes are achieved by negotiation as opposed to going in there with guns blazing.
Of course if your threat analysis determines that you have a Mohammed Atta or a Beslan situation going on, then there is going to be a different response. And I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the NZ security forces actually still have some ability to respond to those type of truly extreme situations, even though we no longer have the old Skyhawks. Best we don't really analyze that possibility any more deeply on a public internet forum though, and I'm sure we all pray we never have to find out what that response might be.
Well I for one am still proud to call DT a mate and I'm going to stick by him, whatever rough times he's going through, now is the time when he's maybe going to need his mates to stick by him and help him get through this. No doubt he's going to find it difficult to get his pilot's licence and/or flying job back again but I hope for aviation's sake he can get whatever help and counselling he needs, someone can find a way to help him get his sh!t sorted / get his life back together, and he can continue in some way to make the enormously positive contribution that he's made to the kiwi industry for the last couple of decades.
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Luke SkyToddler
Voice of reason mate.
Oz Ocker
You sound like a reasonably intelligent individual. As a fellow countryman, I'm asking you - is there any chance you could stop writing as though you're standing knee deep in sheep dip chewing on a piece of hay with your Akubra tilted to one side? It would make it a lot easier for the rest of us to figure out the point you are making.
Thanks
Voice of reason mate.
Oz Ocker
You sound like a reasonably intelligent individual. As a fellow countryman, I'm asking you - is there any chance you could stop writing as though you're standing knee deep in sheep dip chewing on a piece of hay with your Akubra tilted to one side? It would make it a lot easier for the rest of us to figure out the point you are making.
Thanks
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skol
Your ignorance is showing again.
A "cry for help" is not the same thing as blaming everybody else for your problems.
Such a person is simply giving you a warning that they have reached their breaking point. Nobody cares why at that point, and many psychologists differ about how "blame" should be allocated. Smart psychologists don't even try.
Also, "taking responsibility" won't help when somebody reaches their personal limit, because at that point their view of the world is so distorted that the concept is meaningless.
Of course we could try your approach, which is probably putting a cattle prod up their arse until they agree with everything you say...
Your ignorance is showing again.
A "cry for help" is not the same thing as blaming everybody else for your problems.
Such a person is simply giving you a warning that they have reached their breaking point. Nobody cares why at that point, and many psychologists differ about how "blame" should be allocated. Smart psychologists don't even try.
Also, "taking responsibility" won't help when somebody reaches their personal limit, because at that point their view of the world is so distorted that the concept is meaningless.
Of course we could try your approach, which is probably putting a cattle prod up their arse until they agree with everything you say...