OzJet Start Date Keeps Slipping

[alidad]

Yes Alien Sex God; note how he/she/it spelt "buy", or is it "by" or is it bi.........................

[En-Rooter]

Could still be a bloke, LC IS from Sydney afterall. Not that there's anything wrong with that?

[apacau]

BUSINESS class start-up Ozjet entered its first aircraft on the Australian register last week, but has pushed back its expected launch date to mid-November.

The airline had initially hoped to get off the ground this month, and in July delayed its launch until October.

Ozjet chief executive Hans van Pelt hailed the registration of the first aircraft, VH-OZQ, as a significant step in the airline's application to get its Australian Air Operators certificate.

"This is a tick in one of the major boxes of our application to operate as an airline,'' he said.

Ozjet officials now believe the earliest launch date for its 94 weekly Sydney-Melbourne flights will be the second week of November.

CASA says it is being thorough with the application because it wants to ensure Ozjet has the processes set up to monitor and maintain the airline's 30-year-old aircraft.

"I wanted to get up by Melbourne Cup Day (November 1), but I don't think we'll get enough sales to get there,'' said Mr van Pelt.

"That's pretty much a holiday week, and if you miss the Melbourne Cup, you might as well go after that.''

The airline also had slots lined up at its destinations and would finalise an agreement with Sydney Airport this week.

"Melbourne's locked away ... Canberra's fine, Adelaide's fine,'' he said, adding that there were ``no issues'' with Brisbane.

Ozjet is sourcing its first planes from chairman and founder Paul Stoddart's European Aviation.

Ozjet plans to provide business class service at full economy prices, and says it will have a dozen 737s in Australia by the middle of next year.

Its launch plan involves eight return flights each business day between Sydney and Melbourne; an Adelaide-Melbourne service is set to follow in February.

It will fly the aircraft with just 60 seats and says it will cut down on queuing time by allowing passengers up to three pieces of carry-on luggage.

While the start-up is concentrating on getting its 737s flying, it has also bought two BAe-146s and is about to send the first to Britain for heavy maintenance and an interior refit.

"Ideally, these two are in mind, possibly down the track, for the Canberra run,'' Mr van Pelt said.

Meanwhile, Qantas said yesterday it would put on almost 4000 extra seats to and from Perth, to cater for anticipated demand for the AFL grand final.

The airline will use a mix of Boeing 747s, 767s and 737s as well as Airbus A330s to cope with the extra demand.

© The Australian - MON 19 SEP

[Lodown]

Be aware that what actually appears in a press release and what might actually be done at a later date can, at times, be two different things. The guy didn't get where he is by luck and stupidity. The facts, as reported, don't make a lot of sense to me yet, but that might just be me. The intention might just be to get Qantas chasing a ghost. I'm reading all the posts and waiting for the shoe to drop somewhere that puts the ducks in a row.

[Legal_Counsel]

Ozjet delay to do with Safety

As far as I can make out, the airline is having problems with its safety checks and has failed two inspections. I am not sure if this is referring to the AOC or the aircraft just registered. Does any one know anything?

[Bretag no H]

Yes Legal C, someone does know something, but it obviously is not your informant.

There have been no CASA inspections. They have looked at some of our training and given it the OK. Some guys even got 737-200 endorsements last week. Sorry to disappoint you.

Whatever perverted pleasure you gain from your repeated attacks on this enterprise I do not understand. Why not simply relax and see how it all plays out? I bet that's what Geoff Dixon is doing.

[Legal_Counsel]

Registered without a CASA Inspection

So Bretag no H, you claim no CASA inspections. So the aircraft that was just brought in on the Australian Register had no CASA Inspection and CASA isn't inspecting any qualifications, manuals or procedures either - just looking.

Cool - just another thing for the press to pick up on in due course I guess. Over to you Woomera.

[Bretag no H]

That's right - just looking. When we invite them out to do the Certificate of Airworthiness, that will be an inspection. When they check our infrastructure, do proving flights etc, that will be an inspection. FACTS, my friend, stick to the FACTS.

[Barbossa]

Hmm..well if it's currently as casual as "just a look" one wonders how the CEo can claim that the registration of this one aircraft is a "major step in the AOC process".

Now being ex-CASA even you would know the exaggeration behind that statement. Unless of coure the proposed operation is so tenuous that you guys didn't even anticipate that you would be allowed to add an aircraft to the register.

You spend your time defending the new venture whilst your CEO keeps making absurd and stupid comments on the technical process that demonstrate how inexperienced he is; each time he opens his mouth you cant complain when people challenge him on his obviously incorrect statements.

One wonders about the wisdom of starting an all business class airline at the end of November, when business is beginning to shut down for the holidays. You're right with one point - this would have to be the easiest problem for Dixon - just sit and wait, no need to do anything else.

[iceblock]

So Legal_Counsel,

You are a truly connected person,

Not only do you have the gossip at the Sydney Coffee Shop and the snippits from your pissed boss at the pub, but you also have:

two guys and my boss from the *** newspaper were talking last night that the latest is

Since this post is meandering along, perhaps you could give it another kick along as that is clearly your strategy, keep these sort of topics on the boil by stirring them up now and again...

I do so enjoy the subtle little hints and innuendo as well. These little gems deserve another look!!!!!......

(and I might add that I learnt from my boy friend that I can afford to by a second hand 737-200 - not that it is any of his business how much I have in my term deposit)

I don't quite have $20M dollars but if I were a punter in aviation, I would put my money on Gold Airways because from what I can see, it's a potential winner.

Mate, you are the potential winner where can I deposit my spare cash....

[wessex19]

Legal_Counsel

("and I might add that I learnt from my boy friend that I can afford to by a second hand 737-200 - not that it is any of his business how much I have in my term deposit")


So legal_Council, are you a sheila or a bloke??? Not thats there anything wrong with that!!!!!!!!

[ozangel]

Regardless - I just feel sorry for the Boyfriend!?

[iceblock]

Ok, I must be bored but with a little research it seems Legal_Counsel really does get around, but the topic doesn't seem to change. For example some threads started recently by Legal_Counsel in D & G, Terms of Endearment and Cabin Crew:

"Analysing Ozjet, the Unofficial Financial Plan"

"Ozjet Launch Setback"

"Ozjet Effective Customers"

And some further gems:

Yeah, it does seem that way anth1980, it's possibly something that is still filtering through so maybe tomorrow we will get some more news. I don't have a court appearance tomorrow so should be able to hang around the coffee shop and meet up with some of my girfriends from the *** newspaper.

Just came back from the coffee shop and the word is out.

I thought this could a useful thing to invite our learned readers to make an objective start to analysing wannabe Ozjet Airlines' likely financial performance over the next 5 years.

And I wonder what Legal Counsel has to do with Gold Airways:

Let's get it straight. I have nothing to do with Gold Airways so it's quite unfair you associate that organisation as a scam I am perpetrating. You ought to be banned from PPRUNE forever for that remark.

And a hint as to what Legal_Counsel does:

Hi anth1980, my specialisation tends to cross company mergers and acquisitions and rural work these days. The most interesting cases are father-daughter contests where trusts were set up for the children and then properties passed to the sons. I am currently building a case in Northern NSW where a girl with two children, one without any toes, is fighting for her right to live on the farm in which she has a major interest. So sad as she has no husband to support her and her brothers are just being difficult all the way. Hope my boss isn't reading these threads.

Legal_Counsel all I want to know is what the hell do you have against Ozjet that has prompted you to wage such a continuous campaign against them?

I guess this is the last we will see from Legal_Counsel in this thread just like how you left the "Rex Recruitment" thread hanging.

Standby for a new Ozjet thread...

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

So Legal_Counsel has girlfriends and a boyfriend. Wow, am I getting confused! Going by Legal's contributions, I can't help but wonder if there are some serious gender issues involved here.

[Alien Sex God]

Come on Legal. Do you have an inny or an outy?

[Wun Wing Lo]

Mmmm... sounds like the stunts he was pulling in this years Grand Prix....

Stoddart = Branson without the personality.

Even the stupid can get lucky. How much has he lost on F1. Continually leading the charge to make it more affordable and failing miserably. And for all his dedication, too hard he sold out. Now he wants to get into australian airlines.

So what if he does get those jets going. QF VB and J* will undercut until he bleeds to death. Then all we will be left with is another one of his rants about how life isnt fair.

Although I suspect the only thing he is trying to acheive is publicity. The general public probably arent even aware of his airline.

[Chronic Snoozer]

I read somewhere he sold Minardi for $34mio. Anyone know if he made a profit?

[VH-Cheer Up]

Profit from owning a GP F1 team = just like the profits you make from ocean yacht racing?

I suspect the only profit is to the owner's personal ego.

So, to bring us back on-topic... What's the launch date for OzJet now?

VHCU

[Meeb]

"I wanted to get up by Melbourne Cup Day (November 1), but I don't think we'll get enough sales to get there,'' said Mr van Pelt.

That is only 3 weeks away, and they do not have the ticket sales on target....

Bit silly making it public knowledge too...

Some folk in Australia should have a look at his aviation business in the UK...

[gaunty]

but I don't think we'll get enough sales to get there,'' said Mr van Pelt.

how do you, or how long before, assuming they get their certificate, does it take to ramp up "enough sales". And how many is enough?

They are running smack dab into the quiet (business) period and most people will by then will have their apex holiday fares (me included) locked up.

Apart from the "curious" from where are the 8 x 60 per day pax going to come?

I am also a bit disappointed that some have decided that Legal_Counsel is a Gold Airways stooge and is personally vilified as such. Here like anyone else him/her is entitled to their view and whether you agree with it or not is by the by, you are entitled to respond to the argument but not on a personal level.
If you can't get your point across without doing so then you simply don't have one.

Or are we falling into the habit of some organisations that either close their Forums or ban their members or otherwise attempt to muzzzle comment having a contrary point of view to that of the "management".

Be that as it may, what credentials do Ozjet have that Gold Airways do not. Both make noise but nether have yet struck a blow. Their may well be a difference in the backgrounds and their current state of progress, but the acid test is who actually gets going and for how long.

Economics and the operational and age issues aside I have a issue in regard to the environmental acceptability of these older types anywhere.

Stripped bare of rhetoric, Ozjets "all business class" entry into the market requires the following to work.

The use of written down to zero airframes, no longer acceptable in the UK/Europe marketplace, by either the public or the strict environmental controls, either in place or about to be.

The substitution of significantly higher fuel burns paid for by the passenger and more rapid depletion of our resources for actual capital commitment by the owner.

The acceptance by the passengers of the significantly higher (2 maybe 3 times) environmental load that their "cheap" comfort requires.

The market "rationalists" will say the passengers don't care, I'm here to tell you that the demographics and mindset of the "business" market they chase says they do.
The ones who don't will continue to buy the apex fares.

Why have the manufacturers of both airframes and engines, spent several million gazillion dollars improving their products for sheer efficiency, maintainablility, fuel consumption and noise issues and why are the aviation boneyards and third world carriers full of these old types.

Why are we now driving small engine low fuel consumption/emission , diesel cars that cost a bit new but are way cheaper to run than their guzzler forebears and if you own a SUV 4WD or big blokes V8 your prized assets are now worth a heap less than before.

My guess is the Ozjet business plan did not foresee, or ignored, the current fuel costs. Even if they did the effect on their operational costs base will be significantly higher.

May be they will have to add an extra 50 seats to compensate and then they have to fill them?????

My thoughts anyway, now the pilots who are pinning their employment hopes on one of the other can have a go at taking the above argument apart and perhaps ponder their part in it and the consequences for their children and their grandchildren.

And besides the argument that if I dont, someone else will, and this is an employment opportunity is becoming a bit threadbare don't you think.

Again it is not, stripped bare of the "Aussie Battler" rhetoric it's a cynical exercise in trying to turn past use by date equipment into money. It might have worked with the ex RAAF equipment exported to another more tolerant place, but this is now. Australians have a worldwide reputation for the highest uptake of modern technology, this is reflected in our airline fleet, Ansett paid the price, so whether they will wear this exercise remains to be seen.

Gordon, you will not be surprised at my attitude.

BTW if they were to announce that they were delayed because they were awaiting delivery positions on modern technology types you would have my instant attention.
No?....... I didn't think so.