August 24th
Here they are again trying to justify their actions.
You know what you did.............we know what you did.............
Long gone .................but NEVER FORGOTTEN.
RIP boys.
Sleep well
"click click"
You know what you did.............we know what you did.............
Long gone .................but NEVER FORGOTTEN.
RIP boys.
Sleep well
"click click"
Last edited by Woomera; 7th Oct 2005 at 01:23.
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In most states the good guys have a convivial get together each two months to talk over their experiences of the past few years. The dispute seldom comes up now, but the interesting experiences related from all over the world makes each meeting a must. The number of members who continued to contribute their knowledge and experience to the various airlines world wide is well known and the number in training and managerial positions are a testmonial to their quality.
Closer to home the success of VB and their employment of so many of our GA pilots has been largely due to the intregration of experienced returnees and selective employment of local pilots of varying age and experience levels.
What have the Heroes contributed and do they also gather as a group of friends each two months. I think not.
Closer to home the success of VB and their employment of so many of our GA pilots has been largely due to the intregration of experienced returnees and selective employment of local pilots of varying age and experience levels.
What have the Heroes contributed and do they also gather as a group of friends each two months. I think not.
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glastar, many so called scabs do meet frequently, whenever their paths cross. No need for a special meeting to discuss how stupid we were giving away our jobs a long time ago, and hating our current circumstances.
We don't find the need to bleat in each other's ears about how much we've contributed to other airlines, even though those contributions are no doubt considerable, or how the world's airlines are sooo lucky to have us, or how we are God's gift to aviation and possibly the world.
We just enjoy a coldie or two and get on with the job.
Of course ALL the 89ers were quality and the rest rabble. Witness the jerkers who failed their training elsewhere in late 89 and early 90, and tell me about quality.
I recall reading something many years ago in, I think, Readers' Digest. It said "In these days of self aggrandizement (big word = increase the power) it was refreshing to see the man in charge of the meat department at Coles with a name tag that showed hisposition as 'MEAT HEAD'."
There could be a message here for you.
ACMS, are you suggesting that those who took the jobs that were advertised, the ones from which you resigned, may not sleep well??? I sleep very well, and even better for knowing that I didn't throw my career away and end up flying a DC3 in Chad or somewhere sikmilarly inhospitable.
We don't find the need to bleat in each other's ears about how much we've contributed to other airlines, even though those contributions are no doubt considerable, or how the world's airlines are sooo lucky to have us, or how we are God's gift to aviation and possibly the world.
We just enjoy a coldie or two and get on with the job.
Of course ALL the 89ers were quality and the rest rabble. Witness the jerkers who failed their training elsewhere in late 89 and early 90, and tell me about quality.
I recall reading something many years ago in, I think, Readers' Digest. It said "In these days of self aggrandizement (big word = increase the power) it was refreshing to see the man in charge of the meat department at Coles with a name tag that showed hisposition as 'MEAT HEAD'."
There could be a message here for you.
ACMS, are you suggesting that those who took the jobs that were advertised, the ones from which you resigned, may not sleep well??? I sleep very well, and even better for knowing that I didn't throw my career away and end up flying a DC3 in Chad or somewhere sikmilarly inhospitable.
Last edited by ys120fz; 5th Oct 2005 at 08:11.
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Oh ACMS, familiar smell is it, all coming back to you, well its not because of the scabs, it's because your back to kissing, licking, and crawling up your superiors arse.
You won't get far, as there already is a **** load of your brown tonge zombie mates up there and you'll run into the soles of their shoes.
All you zombie '89ers are lot spineless lot, still trying to blame someone else for your stupid actions, that's why you were zombies in '89 and still are now.
You won't get far, as there already is a **** load of your brown tonge zombie mates up there and you'll run into the soles of their shoes.
All you zombie '89ers are lot spineless lot, still trying to blame someone else for your stupid actions, that's why you were zombies in '89 and still are now.
gee same old retorts...................yawn
spinless??????????????????????????????????? huh
we stuck to our principles, it may not have achieved a lot in the washup but the brotherhood of Pilots stood shoulder to shoulder as one. If we had a united Pilot group in Australia now instead of a bunch of self serving ..........we would all have decent working conditions and fair renumeration.
Suck up to my superiors? huh? what are you smoking boy? If i'd been "sucking up to my superiors" I think I would have sc**ed, gotten a 737 command 7 years early and been forever feeling like I'd let my collegues down. ( sound familiar does it S.M? )
In 20/20 hindsight I've actually done much better than if I'd stayed in Oz. So I guess I should thank you all for helping resolve the situation!!
Oh and by the way, "advertised jobs," "you resigned," "didn't know about the dispute" excuses are just plain old CRAP. You all knew exactly where the land lay and for basically the same reason chose to take a job in Ansett, Australian, East West or Ipec.
So why don't you just cut the crap and admit you are selfish, backstabbing, lying, cheating, low life, scum bag idiots with little dicks.
YOU MAY BE GONE, BUT YOU WILL NEVER, REPEAT NEVER BE FORGOTTEN
Rant over, I feel much better now.....................ahh life is sweet.
spinless??????????????????????????????????? huh
we stuck to our principles, it may not have achieved a lot in the washup but the brotherhood of Pilots stood shoulder to shoulder as one. If we had a united Pilot group in Australia now instead of a bunch of self serving ..........we would all have decent working conditions and fair renumeration.
Suck up to my superiors? huh? what are you smoking boy? If i'd been "sucking up to my superiors" I think I would have sc**ed, gotten a 737 command 7 years early and been forever feeling like I'd let my collegues down. ( sound familiar does it S.M? )
In 20/20 hindsight I've actually done much better than if I'd stayed in Oz. So I guess I should thank you all for helping resolve the situation!!
Oh and by the way, "advertised jobs," "you resigned," "didn't know about the dispute" excuses are just plain old CRAP. You all knew exactly where the land lay and for basically the same reason chose to take a job in Ansett, Australian, East West or Ipec.
So why don't you just cut the crap and admit you are selfish, backstabbing, lying, cheating, low life, scum bag idiots with little dicks.
YOU MAY BE GONE, BUT YOU WILL NEVER, REPEAT NEVER BE FORGOTTEN
Rant over, I feel much better now.....................ahh life is sweet.
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Lets get some facts here.
Who told everyone to sign resignations, not to be used only for bargining, and used the next day. THE AFAP.
Who was offered about 20% and never told their members. THE AFAP.
Who, all of a sudden in 1990, became GA's best friend. THE AFAP.
Trust the AFAP, yeh sure.
And those that did were left with sand in their ears.
Who told everyone to sign resignations, not to be used only for bargining, and used the next day. THE AFAP.
Who was offered about 20% and never told their members. THE AFAP.
Who, all of a sudden in 1990, became GA's best friend. THE AFAP.
Trust the AFAP, yeh sure.
And those that did were left with sand in their ears.
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HGW, pretty much so, but it was well before the 717's arrived. It's interesting to note that Impulse/Jet* have quite a few of the 89ers that cracked the sh1ts and left our shores, only to return and be a part of the cancer now known as Jet*.
So in one sense they fight for their principles in 89, then return and sell their souls to the devil to crew jet*, then have the audacity to bleat crap like "but we had to do it for our jobs" or "you would of done the same thing" or "we had mouths to feed, thats why we agreed to crew the A320's for the same rates as a 717"
Jet*...cheap, nasty and full of hypocrites and sharks from Impulse that couldn't get a job elswhere.
No wonder Australian aviation is up the sh1tter, with the Branson Aero club based in Brisbane and Jet* farking over everyone in it's path.
So in one sense they fight for their principles in 89, then return and sell their souls to the devil to crew jet*, then have the audacity to bleat crap like "but we had to do it for our jobs" or "you would of done the same thing" or "we had mouths to feed, thats why we agreed to crew the A320's for the same rates as a 717"
Jet*...cheap, nasty and full of hypocrites and sharks from Impulse that couldn't get a job elswhere.
No wonder Australian aviation is up the sh1tter, with the Branson Aero club based in Brisbane and Jet* farking over everyone in it's path.
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You would hope that most of the continued muck raking of the 1989 dispute probably comes form the management types. (For they are the only ones who benefit)
I would like to think that as pilots first, and as employees second (i.e. Qantas, VB, Jet*, Rex, Eastern/Sunnies etc) that we would be in a position 16 and a bit years after the event to put the past behind us in order to improve our lot.
There is clearly only one way to achieve this and that is through unity and a common agenda.
I do not pretend that such a couse of action would be instantly harmonious, and a lot a concessions have to be made on either side of the fence.
For the sake of improved pay and conditions (lifestyle) for all surely it is worthy of your consideration.
The alternative, sees the managers successfully continue to play one pilot group off against the other to keep the budget costs down and hence reward themselves with generous bonuses.
It is our choice.
(BTW I was not involved in the dispute but i am trying to raise a family and continue to enjoy my career.)
I would like to think that as pilots first, and as employees second (i.e. Qantas, VB, Jet*, Rex, Eastern/Sunnies etc) that we would be in a position 16 and a bit years after the event to put the past behind us in order to improve our lot.
There is clearly only one way to achieve this and that is through unity and a common agenda.
I do not pretend that such a couse of action would be instantly harmonious, and a lot a concessions have to be made on either side of the fence.
For the sake of improved pay and conditions (lifestyle) for all surely it is worthy of your consideration.
The alternative, sees the managers successfully continue to play one pilot group off against the other to keep the budget costs down and hence reward themselves with generous bonuses.
It is our choice.
(BTW I was not involved in the dispute but i am trying to raise a family and continue to enjoy my career.)
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Well the stupid diatribe from zombies like ACMS just keeps on rolling, you indicate that you are from the Fragrant Harbour so we suppose HK.
Take the issue of the 40'ers, you spinless lot put a recruitment ban on new hires, but no bloody trouble in taking promotions in the consequence.
Well Zombie!!!...you knew where the land lay, but no trouble taking up the promotions while the recruitment ban was on....you pathetic slime.
So why didn't you slime put a ban on promotion as well if you had such HIGH principles, Oh I have seen men of princples as they call them selves all my life, only to find they are the ones that will stab you in the back first.
Oh everybody knew about the dispute alright, its just everybody waited for the zombies to make the "master move" we all waited with bated breath.
I've often wondered if Ansett had folded in the old days, would the TAA zombies would be benevolent and just take them in order or age and experience and aircraft type after all the Brotherhood of Pilots standing shoulder to shoulder as you say.
What do you recon ACMS, I would have put my money on knives flying all over the place, he would have seen a blood bath, so much for your pathetic holier than thou principles, Brotherhood of Pilots my arse, you would step on anyone to get what you want given half a chance.
Alas poor Yorik!!
Enjoy your holiday!
Woomera
Take the issue of the 40'ers, you spinless lot put a recruitment ban on new hires, but no bloody trouble in taking promotions in the consequence.
Well Zombie!!!...you knew where the land lay, but no trouble taking up the promotions while the recruitment ban was on....you pathetic slime.
So why didn't you slime put a ban on promotion as well if you had such HIGH principles, Oh I have seen men of princples as they call them selves all my life, only to find they are the ones that will stab you in the back first.
Oh everybody knew about the dispute alright, its just everybody waited for the zombies to make the "master move" we all waited with bated breath.
I've often wondered if Ansett had folded in the old days, would the TAA zombies would be benevolent and just take them in order or age and experience and aircraft type after all the Brotherhood of Pilots standing shoulder to shoulder as you say.
What do you recon ACMS, I would have put my money on knives flying all over the place, he would have seen a blood bath, so much for your pathetic holier than thou principles, Brotherhood of Pilots my arse, you would step on anyone to get what you want given half a chance.
Alas poor Yorik!!
Enjoy your holiday! Woomera
Last edited by Woomera; 7th Oct 2005 at 01:26.
The AFAP were not perfect, far from it. They underestimated the will of Hawke Abeles etc, no doubt about that.
What really pissed me off was the "friends" telling all and sundry to "stick to it, we are right ra ra ra" whilst at the SAME TIME arranging their command slot back at HQ. This happened a hell of a lot. Had their hands in several pockets at once it seems!! Damn disgrace to the human race.
The HKAOA are not all that great either, our leadership ( and IFALPA ) chose not to refuse upgrades whilst the recruitment ban was on.Why you ask? They were worried that CX would employ direct entry Captains to fill the slots, and this was to be avoided at all costs. I opposed that position, made my position known to the members and to the union leadership. Wiser heads prevailed and they were correct. Now thankfully the 49 er ( not 40 ) situation seems to have been resolved fairly well, although not perfectly.
If Ansett had folded TAA would have taken as many Ansett pilots as they could.The Ansett Pilots would have been junior to ALL TAA Pilots. If however some temporary Captains were need obviously that would have been worked out with a legally binding agreement between the TAA management and it's Pilots.
I have never once stepped on anyone to get where I am today and resent the implication Yorick. It's only you lot that continually resort to those tactics my friend. That's why they call you SCABS. Or had you forgotten?
I guess you were one of the Heroes jumping the que for an A320 endorsement when there was a chance Ansett mark 2 would rise from the ashes. LOL
The vast majority of '89 ers are working overseas or have retired, I don't have the figures but I guess there would be 100 or so in Virgin Blue? don't know really. Virgin Blue don't pay all that bad a wage, it could be better I guess but it is still fair.
If any 89'er is in Impulse ( now Pornstar ) then he/she should be ashamed, they prostitute themselves badly, not once but twice!!
Finally an admission from a Scab that he knew of a dispute between the Domestic airlines in Australia and their Pilot group lead by the AFAP. Thank god that's settled, I'm so sick of hearing "I didn't know"
What really pissed me off was the "friends" telling all and sundry to "stick to it, we are right ra ra ra" whilst at the SAME TIME arranging their command slot back at HQ. This happened a hell of a lot. Had their hands in several pockets at once it seems!! Damn disgrace to the human race.
The HKAOA are not all that great either, our leadership ( and IFALPA ) chose not to refuse upgrades whilst the recruitment ban was on.Why you ask? They were worried that CX would employ direct entry Captains to fill the slots, and this was to be avoided at all costs. I opposed that position, made my position known to the members and to the union leadership. Wiser heads prevailed and they were correct. Now thankfully the 49 er ( not 40 ) situation seems to have been resolved fairly well, although not perfectly.
If Ansett had folded TAA would have taken as many Ansett pilots as they could.The Ansett Pilots would have been junior to ALL TAA Pilots. If however some temporary Captains were need obviously that would have been worked out with a legally binding agreement between the TAA management and it's Pilots.
I have never once stepped on anyone to get where I am today and resent the implication Yorick. It's only you lot that continually resort to those tactics my friend. That's why they call you SCABS. Or had you forgotten?
I guess you were one of the Heroes jumping the que for an A320 endorsement when there was a chance Ansett mark 2 would rise from the ashes. LOL
The vast majority of '89 ers are working overseas or have retired, I don't have the figures but I guess there would be 100 or so in Virgin Blue? don't know really. Virgin Blue don't pay all that bad a wage, it could be better I guess but it is still fair.
If any 89'er is in Impulse ( now Pornstar ) then he/she should be ashamed, they prostitute themselves badly, not once but twice!!
Finally an admission from a Scab that he knew of a dispute between the Domestic airlines in Australia and their Pilot group lead by the AFAP. Thank god that's settled, I'm so sick of hearing "I didn't know"
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Goodness, doesn't time fly, 16 years and a month or so already,and still both sides are still just that, both sides.
Strange also that the old "justifications" for "taking a job offer" and "you all resigned" and "it's all everyone elses fault" still surface.
We did resign, or if you wish, allowed our resignations to be, possibly unexpectedly, actually handed in.
Then all had the opportunity to rescind that if you wished, some did, nearly 1500 did not, in the next day or so which I think most people would have been generous to see that point, although an aroma of the $c%b was begining to rise in a few cases. Some never resigned and FULL MARKS to them, they stood up for the way they saw the deal.
THEN the wimps, waverers, need the money, school fees, lack of status, wife upset and in tears as the bills came in and 1001 other p1ss poor escuses for honest people, dribbled, slunk, cheated, needed 6 mates to go with them, got the new car offer, got a pay rise, got a command ahead of the others went back and got the stupid award of the year.
Vale Ansett as well to their collective credit and good bloddy bye to any collective group of pilots, hello EBAs, WPAs, cunningly disgised as an "Award".
We are all what we are content to accept, you sign, you accept, let the chips fall where they may on the dotted line.
I am, and will be as long as I get up each morning, a $c%b hating to the 3rd generation 89er, still working and enjoying each and every misfortune that befalls the sods.
Strange also that the old "justifications" for "taking a job offer" and "you all resigned" and "it's all everyone elses fault" still surface.
We did resign, or if you wish, allowed our resignations to be, possibly unexpectedly, actually handed in.
Then all had the opportunity to rescind that if you wished, some did, nearly 1500 did not, in the next day or so which I think most people would have been generous to see that point, although an aroma of the $c%b was begining to rise in a few cases. Some never resigned and FULL MARKS to them, they stood up for the way they saw the deal.
THEN the wimps, waverers, need the money, school fees, lack of status, wife upset and in tears as the bills came in and 1001 other p1ss poor escuses for honest people, dribbled, slunk, cheated, needed 6 mates to go with them, got the new car offer, got a pay rise, got a command ahead of the others went back and got the stupid award of the year.
Vale Ansett as well to their collective credit and good bloddy bye to any collective group of pilots, hello EBAs, WPAs, cunningly disgised as an "Award".
We are all what we are content to accept, you sign, you accept, let the chips fall where they may on the dotted line.
I am, and will be as long as I get up each morning, a $c%b hating to the 3rd generation 89er, still working and enjoying each and every misfortune that befalls the sods.
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Don't like your pay and conditions? Find another job!
Hate the "boss's" taking home fat pay cheques? Go get an MBA and become one.
Don't like the airline making "big profits" off your backs? Buy some shares and enjoy the profits!
Instead it seems most here are thinking :
"me me me, I want more pay and better conditions... hang on.. If I try convince every other pilot to think "me me me" and join a union with me I just might get it...
Isn't that a tad hypocritical?
Surely a bush pilot taking a job with Jet* or Virgin Blue is only doing the same thing. Trying to get himself better "pay and conditions" by joining a company that pays more than the bush operator! Yet you want those guys to turn down the jobs because they are "ruining it" for the guys who already have the jobs?
Unfortunately, even if they dropped 747 captain salaries to $25,000 you will still have thousands of kids turning up to aeroclubs wanting to fly them.... and the airlines know it.
Hate the "boss's" taking home fat pay cheques? Go get an MBA and become one.
Don't like the airline making "big profits" off your backs? Buy some shares and enjoy the profits!
Instead it seems most here are thinking :
"me me me, I want more pay and better conditions... hang on.. If I try convince every other pilot to think "me me me" and join a union with me I just might get it...
Isn't that a tad hypocritical?
Surely a bush pilot taking a job with Jet* or Virgin Blue is only doing the same thing. Trying to get himself better "pay and conditions" by joining a company that pays more than the bush operator! Yet you want those guys to turn down the jobs because they are "ruining it" for the guys who already have the jobs?
Unfortunately, even if they dropped 747 captain salaries to $25,000 you will still have thousands of kids turning up to aeroclubs wanting to fly them.... and the airlines know it.
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I guess you were one of the Heroes jumping the que for an A320 endorsement when there was a chance Ansett mark 2 would rise from the ashes.
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That action by the older AN pilots was absolutely disgraceful. Even the young AN pilots were disgusted, and rightfully so.
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That action by the older AN pilots was absolutely disgraceful. Even the young AN pilots were disgusted, and rightfully so.
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I guess you were one of the Heroes jumping the que for an A320 endorsement when there was a chance Ansett mark 2 would rise from the ashes
So to hold an alternate view to the left wingers here you must automatically be a "scab" or a queue jumper??
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Perhaps we could look at the topic of this thread just one more time.
On the night the resignations were signed there was a briefing. In a nutshell this was an agreement and boiled down to two points.
1/ Resignations would only be submitted if the companies commenced issuing writs.
2/ If the above occurred we would all resign together, and we would only return together.
The first happened, the second didn’t.
On the night the resignations were signed there was a briefing. In a nutshell this was an agreement and boiled down to two points.
1/ Resignations would only be submitted if the companies commenced issuing writs.
2/ If the above occurred we would all resign together, and we would only return together.
The first happened, the second didn’t.
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Jesus Christ Greybeard, what kind of a person are you, going to hate scabs for 3 generations, where do you get this outdated 18th century mentality from.
This idiotic belief started in the mining villages of Wales and England, where people were so thick they didn't understand anything, and you put your self in the same category.
What part of life is it that you don't understand, not everybody shares the ideals and belief's that you do, everybody deals and acts with life, grief, tragedy, in different ways, **** this is so fundamental, you must be so naivel to have such simplistic belief's.
The world does not work that way, you just can't make everybody to go in the same direction all the time, that's called totalitarianism, and you and your AFAP leadership or anyone had no right to inflict this on its membership while we live in a free society.
During the dispute, some were opportunistic, others wanted to go back and yet others wanted to destroy the airlines. How on earth did the leadership or you for that matter thought that every 1,647 pilot was just going to stand by and watch their careers being wrecked.
After 16 years and (1 month, maybe you know how many hours and minutes as well graybeard) the most vitriolic of the '89ers are the ones that realised that they have been duped big time by the AFAP leadership and really hoped that they had gone back, the other real haters are the ones that secretly applied to go back but got rejected because of their history during their employ, thus now come out as "we would never have gone back" with such venom.
And this begs the question, if you never wanted to go back as you say, why do you care who joined after 24th August, after all you didn't care, you are so happy to be somewhere else and wish such ill will on the two airlines.... but we all know the true answer to that don't we.
This idiotic belief started in the mining villages of Wales and England, where people were so thick they didn't understand anything, and you put your self in the same category.
What part of life is it that you don't understand, not everybody shares the ideals and belief's that you do, everybody deals and acts with life, grief, tragedy, in different ways, **** this is so fundamental, you must be so naivel to have such simplistic belief's.
The world does not work that way, you just can't make everybody to go in the same direction all the time, that's called totalitarianism, and you and your AFAP leadership or anyone had no right to inflict this on its membership while we live in a free society.
During the dispute, some were opportunistic, others wanted to go back and yet others wanted to destroy the airlines. How on earth did the leadership or you for that matter thought that every 1,647 pilot was just going to stand by and watch their careers being wrecked.
After 16 years and (1 month, maybe you know how many hours and minutes as well graybeard) the most vitriolic of the '89ers are the ones that realised that they have been duped big time by the AFAP leadership and really hoped that they had gone back, the other real haters are the ones that secretly applied to go back but got rejected because of their history during their employ, thus now come out as "we would never have gone back" with such venom.
And this begs the question, if you never wanted to go back as you say, why do you care who joined after 24th August, after all you didn't care, you are so happy to be somewhere else and wish such ill will on the two airlines.... but we all know the true answer to that don't we.
Dear Richard I can promise you that the vast majority of '89 ers did not want to destroy Ansett or Australian East West or Ipec. What a rediculous notion.
There had been a great reluctance on the management side to work out a fair deal from well before the 24th Aug. They had their position and by god they weren't going to budge at all. The AFAP had our ambit ( spell checker req !! ) claim and so it began,
9 to 5 ....
writs issued.........resigned.................a few scabs........test of wills................more scabs giving the companies hope that we would fould..........AFAP offer in the media to go back to work whilst negotitions continue...........Airlines say "no we are back to normal" .............Abeles "wanting his Boys back"...........Hawke and Kelty involved stopped him giving in............more scabs around xmas..............cost zillions of dollars to Oz tourism and the airlines.............blah blah blah.......and here we are today.
a very difficult time, made a lot worse by those opportunistic sorts that saw a golden opportunity to jump into a position they would never have gotten. ( that includes the junior F/O's of the F50 fleet that saw an opportunity for greatly accelerated promotion, hi to Simon and co. And it includes those sorts from O/S )
Life however goes on, but that is not to say that their actions and the actions of Bob Hawke Abeles Kelty etc will be forgotten.
..............
There had been a great reluctance on the management side to work out a fair deal from well before the 24th Aug. They had their position and by god they weren't going to budge at all. The AFAP had our ambit ( spell checker req !! ) claim and so it began,
9 to 5 ....
writs issued.........resigned.................a few scabs........test of wills................more scabs giving the companies hope that we would fould..........AFAP offer in the media to go back to work whilst negotitions continue...........Airlines say "no we are back to normal" .............Abeles "wanting his Boys back"...........Hawke and Kelty involved stopped him giving in............more scabs around xmas..............cost zillions of dollars to Oz tourism and the airlines.............blah blah blah.......and here we are today.
a very difficult time, made a lot worse by those opportunistic sorts that saw a golden opportunity to jump into a position they would never have gotten. ( that includes the junior F/O's of the F50 fleet that saw an opportunity for greatly accelerated promotion, hi to Simon and co. And it includes those sorts from O/S )
Life however goes on, but that is not to say that their actions and the actions of Bob Hawke Abeles Kelty etc will be forgotten.
..............
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I am neither an 89er nor a hero.
But I can say with some authority that for some time prior to the 89 dispute,
There was a significant worldwide shortage of employable pilots, every one who wanted a job and was acceptable to the airlines could get one.
Ansett, Australian and Qantas were recalling for interview candidates they had previously advised not to bother them again,
I was losing, monthly, well trained turbine, multi and single piston pilots to the airlines and having difficulty finding suitable replacements see above.
Some only enjoyed several months of "airline" before the resignations.
So apart from the returnees where did the rest come from.?
I know that the AFAP exec had been trying for at least a year that I can recall, to engage the airlines in the same form of restructure that eventually occured. I was not involved directly but the talk around the BBQ was pretty frustrated with the airlines intransigence and refusal to even open the envelope containing the pilots proposals.
Coupled with the illegal use of the military and unlicensed operators to keep it going, suggests that there might be several dozen goal terms for some high profile individuals and senior public servants, should a Royal Commission or similar be convened.
Add some pretty arrogant and barely concealed corruption.
I am also aware that upon the death of a certain person the presses will consume several million acres of forrest in the publication of the real deal. It wont be pretty.
Justice for whatever that means is not going to happen, but a reasonable person presented with some simple facts could not fail to draw some very obvious conclusions.
I have lost friends on both sides, on one side by premature death on the other by choice.
There are a few simple core principles that separate a civilised and well ordered community from an anarchical one. The line is fine and was on this occasion breached by the leaders of the very democracy we thought we had constructed to preserve it.
But I can say with some authority that for some time prior to the 89 dispute,
There was a significant worldwide shortage of employable pilots, every one who wanted a job and was acceptable to the airlines could get one.
Ansett, Australian and Qantas were recalling for interview candidates they had previously advised not to bother them again,
I was losing, monthly, well trained turbine, multi and single piston pilots to the airlines and having difficulty finding suitable replacements see above.
Some only enjoyed several months of "airline" before the resignations.
So apart from the returnees where did the rest come from.?
I know that the AFAP exec had been trying for at least a year that I can recall, to engage the airlines in the same form of restructure that eventually occured. I was not involved directly but the talk around the BBQ was pretty frustrated with the airlines intransigence and refusal to even open the envelope containing the pilots proposals.
Coupled with the illegal use of the military and unlicensed operators to keep it going, suggests that there might be several dozen goal terms for some high profile individuals and senior public servants, should a Royal Commission or similar be convened.
Add some pretty arrogant and barely concealed corruption.
I am also aware that upon the death of a certain person the presses will consume several million acres of forrest in the publication of the real deal. It wont be pretty.
Justice for whatever that means is not going to happen, but a reasonable person presented with some simple facts could not fail to draw some very obvious conclusions.
I have lost friends on both sides, on one side by premature death on the other by choice.
There are a few simple core principles that separate a civilised and well ordered community from an anarchical one. The line is fine and was on this occasion breached by the leaders of the very democracy we thought we had constructed to preserve it.
Last edited by Woomera; 7th Oct 2005 at 07:44.