QF Pilot Attitudes
Join Date: Jul 1999
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I'm with you DP.
The easiest way to get QF to pull back 30 knots used to be request "keep speed up, you're number one to <insert name of opposition>", this works nine out of ten.
The easiest way to get QF to pull back 30 knots used to be request "keep speed up, you're number one to <insert name of opposition>", this works nine out of ten.
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It used to be the -400 Captains who had the bad image in QF. Now its the rush tear-ass merchants on the 737.
When they learn to fly they try to log every extra minute they can. After they land the job at QF they spend the rest of there lives trying to log the least number of minutes. Go figure.
When they learn to fly they try to log every extra minute they can. After they land the job at QF they spend the rest of there lives trying to log the least number of minutes. Go figure.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Perhaps to keep the whole thing in perspective and to balance the argument, a name and shame page could be produced and published in the respective airlines crew rooms.
Sure some QF guys are a little different, but I can assure you there are some "interesting characters" in DJ as well. Their demeanour and attitude are apalling, not to mention embarrassing. Some ex regional airline thinking still evident. Professional, I think not!
Sure some QF guys are a little different, but I can assure you there are some "interesting characters" in DJ as well. Their demeanour and attitude are apalling, not to mention embarrassing. Some ex regional airline thinking still evident. Professional, I think not!
Elektra,
Whilst not a regular contributer to this forum I would like to give you some more info in regard to what you thought you heard.
I was crewing one of the 'rat' aircraft involved in this incident.
Following an instuction to commence a vector for spacing into CNS, the actual distance to run to UPOLO had the lead A/C 2nm ahead and 4000' above. This was discovered via inter A/C transmissions and not via ATC. This is when I first realised that the other A/C wasn't too happy and obviously felt aggrieved at be being 'awarded' a vector. The vector was to allow terminal spacing and the lower A/C was assigned #1 due to higher groundspeed and eventually being first to the CNS TMA.
At no stage in the following exchanges with ATC did we engage in anything other than standard R/T transmissions.
Like you, we were amazed at the lack of respect shown towards ATC, and the willingness of other A/C to 'jump in' with comments and support for the aggrieved A/C. The fact that the controller was female (although this shouldn't be relevent), may have led to this blatant display of sexism.
This wasn't as you may have thought as being ATC Vs 'The Rats', it was in fact one highly stressed individual trying to assert his beleif that he had been gazumped. Whilst being critical of this behavior, it is by no means less direspectful for other A/C to fuel the situation with perceived 'humerous' comments.
I felt extreamly sorry for the controller on the recieving end of the exchanges, and even when she herself tried to humour the A/C involved it was met with distain and sarcasm.
My only explanation is that unfortunalely the individual had a bee in his bonnet over something unrelated, and the ATC operator has to be the bearer of news that tipped him over. This is my excusue for always looking for the good in someone.
Now with tha advent of 'ATC RAGE', at least it is giving more fodder to CRM co-ordinators.
Whilst in my own experience these occurances are quite rare, the other 'funny buggers' on frequency making anonymous comments only serves to convolute the situation.
As a footnote you will be happy to know that he got a visual approach via the 'creek corridor' and saved a few precious minutes.
Cheers
Whilst not a regular contributer to this forum I would like to give you some more info in regard to what you thought you heard.
I was crewing one of the 'rat' aircraft involved in this incident.
Following an instuction to commence a vector for spacing into CNS, the actual distance to run to UPOLO had the lead A/C 2nm ahead and 4000' above. This was discovered via inter A/C transmissions and not via ATC. This is when I first realised that the other A/C wasn't too happy and obviously felt aggrieved at be being 'awarded' a vector. The vector was to allow terminal spacing and the lower A/C was assigned #1 due to higher groundspeed and eventually being first to the CNS TMA.
At no stage in the following exchanges with ATC did we engage in anything other than standard R/T transmissions.
Like you, we were amazed at the lack of respect shown towards ATC, and the willingness of other A/C to 'jump in' with comments and support for the aggrieved A/C. The fact that the controller was female (although this shouldn't be relevent), may have led to this blatant display of sexism.
This wasn't as you may have thought as being ATC Vs 'The Rats', it was in fact one highly stressed individual trying to assert his beleif that he had been gazumped. Whilst being critical of this behavior, it is by no means less direspectful for other A/C to fuel the situation with perceived 'humerous' comments.
I felt extreamly sorry for the controller on the recieving end of the exchanges, and even when she herself tried to humour the A/C involved it was met with distain and sarcasm.
My only explanation is that unfortunalely the individual had a bee in his bonnet over something unrelated, and the ATC operator has to be the bearer of news that tipped him over. This is my excusue for always looking for the good in someone.
Now with tha advent of 'ATC RAGE', at least it is giving more fodder to CRM co-ordinators.
Whilst in my own experience these occurances are quite rare, the other 'funny buggers' on frequency making anonymous comments only serves to convolute the situation.
As a footnote you will be happy to know that he got a visual approach via the 'creek corridor' and saved a few precious minutes.
Cheers
Join Date: Apr 2005
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here's a classic radio exchange overheard on Hong Kong ground
Qantas has pushed back waiting for taxi
Locally based airline requests pushback and the pilot handling the radio is ex-qantas mainline and new to this operation.
Straight after qantas requests taxi, he regresses to an old habit and uses "qantas XYX" call sign instead of his own: the following exchange is CLASSIC
"Qantas 123 err, I mean Dragon 123, request pushback"
qantas idiot then comes straight back....
"ah you wannabee"
response
"er no mate, used to be"
.....and they wonder why they get a bad name
Qantas has pushed back waiting for taxi
Locally based airline requests pushback and the pilot handling the radio is ex-qantas mainline and new to this operation.
Straight after qantas requests taxi, he regresses to an old habit and uses "qantas XYX" call sign instead of his own: the following exchange is CLASSIC
"Qantas 123 err, I mean Dragon 123, request pushback"
qantas idiot then comes straight back....
"ah you wannabee"
response
"er no mate, used to be"
.....and they wonder why they get a bad name
Join Date: Mar 2002
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King Oath
Tear arse merchants on the 737? I don't think so. I think you will find that other med category operator's pilots could be classified as tear arse.
And thats relative. With 250/5000 and 210/3000 The ops at QF(including J*) is pretty conservative.
As far as your logging of time allegations go, with the exception of the small amount of low time cadets, I also think you will find that the experience level on QF 737's is pretty high by all standards.
F/O's with > 10000hrs is not unusual. Is that enough for you?
Maybe your the low time tear arse.
Post Script,
Before you start, I am not talking about 10000 hrs s/o time either.
Tear arse merchants on the 737? I don't think so. I think you will find that other med category operator's pilots could be classified as tear arse.
And thats relative. With 250/5000 and 210/3000 The ops at QF(including J*) is pretty conservative.
As far as your logging of time allegations go, with the exception of the small amount of low time cadets, I also think you will find that the experience level on QF 737's is pretty high by all standards.
F/O's with > 10000hrs is not unusual. Is that enough for you?
Maybe your the low time tear arse.
Post Script,
Before you start, I am not talking about 10000 hrs s/o time either.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Avgas and fanta(stic pilot obviously) : dont have the regs on me, but does Pilots shall broadcast thier intentions to join a five mile final straight in approach as close as practical to 15nm ring a bell?
Join Date: Jan 2004
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how about a bit more FLEXIBILITY on the part of ATC??
I extend to you an invitation to visit Brisbane Centre to see how its done. I'm sure my colleague Uncommon Sense would gladly show you how it's done. Then your caption Modest, mild etc might be really true.
Send us a PM, we'll arrange it for you.
In view of the Prime Minister's exhortation that the use of "Mate" is perfectly acceptable and even desirable, in Orstrylian Society, and that "Mate" is the oft used greeting among Virgin Blue pilots, is the rumour true that Qantas have now authorised their first officers and pursers to forewith address the captain as "Mate?"
What's good for the Goose etc...
What's good for the Goose etc...
Join Date: Feb 2004
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OK I'll bite.
If the person you are addressing is a mate then call him mate - if he/she's a stranger how can you call them mate. I do agree that some people, not only bureaucrats and Captains, are quite up themselves.
If you don't know a person it should be no problem to address them as sir or madam... unless, of course, you are up yourself!
If the person you are addressing is a mate then call him mate - if he/she's a stranger how can you call them mate. I do agree that some people, not only bureaucrats and Captains, are quite up themselves.
If you don't know a person it should be no problem to address them as sir or madam... unless, of course, you are up yourself!
